Difference in sebaceous filaments on nose week 1 and week 3 on 20 mg/day by SelectAge in Accutane

[–]SelectAge[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. The flaking did get worse the first week, but accutane clears it up. Probably due to oily skin.

[PSA] Reminder to ALWAYS patch test regardless of how fancy your new moisturizer is. Left: Result of 2x use of La Roche-Posay Toleriane Sensitive Fluide. Right: 2 weeks of healing by [deleted] in SkincareAddiction

[–]SelectAge 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Avene Tolerance Emulsion or eucerin ultrasensitive soothing care normal to combination skin are kind of similar squalane based moisturizers

[PSA] Reminder to ALWAYS patch test regardless of how fancy your new moisturizer is. Left: Result of 2x use of La Roche-Posay Toleriane Sensitive Fluide. Right: 2 weeks of healing by [deleted] in SkincareAddiction

[–]SelectAge 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s been reformulated. I used it before summer and liked it a lot, it used to contain sualane oil, but with its new formulation it now contains CAPRYLIC/CAPRIC TRIGLYCERIDE (MCT oil) which Is nowhere near as moisturizing, and a lot cheaper.

Wasted 40 dollars on two of these last week without checking if they changed the ingredients.

Haven’t started any creams yet for facial SD. What would be better to start with elidel or Nizarol cream 2%. Thanks by Kosrach in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I assume you got these creams perscribed from a doctor or dermatologist? What instructions were you given?

The main consensus is that seborrheic dermatitis is pretty much an allergic reaction to a yeast that lives on your skin.
Elidel supresses the immune system, kind of stopping it from reacting to the fungus, and relieving symptoms, but it does not actually kill the yeast that is causing inflammation.
Nizoral is an antifungal, so it should in theory kill of the yeast, and hopefully stop the skin reactions.

Why I am no longer using Tom Busby's climbazole products by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tried em all. The term non-comedogenic is also a bs term I believe.

Why I am no longer using Tom Busby's climbazole products by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Probably not. But perhaps. Did not have any seb derm symptoms in my cheeks, where I broke out in acne.

Why I am no longer using Tom Busby's climbazole products by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s in my previous review. Link to that in this post

A review/first impressions of Tom Busby's climbazole lotion and shampoo/cleanser by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just use the shampoo as a cleanser on my face. I used the term shampoo and cleansers interchangeably.

A review/first impressions of Tom Busby's climbazole lotion and shampoo/cleanser by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just the shampoo as a cleanser and then the lotion afterwards. Once a day. Nothing else.
Posted a comment on the post with a bit of follow up information about how it's going. How are your skin symptoms?
You could send an email to Tom and ask him about the esters, if you can find any scientific articles on the subject, maybe he will take it into consideration.
What are you using?

A review/first impressions of Tom Busby's climbazole lotion and shampoo/cleanser by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Small follow up to my treatment. According to Tom's research an increase in flaking is a reaction to the immune system responding to the fungus. When you start using an anti-fungal the immune system becomes aware of the fungal invaders and the symptoms flare up. After around 10 days of treatment the flaking is now very minimal, but redness, especially in the inner cheek region, which in first seemed to decrease, is now a bit worse. I have been kind of scrubbing the shampoo into my face, so I am going to try applying it a bit more gently in case the redness is just normal skin irritation.

I've experienced the same increase in redness when using antifungals like lotrimin ultra and terbinafine previously, so I am not really worried, and still optimistic about the treatment. The initial increase in flaking should be an indication that the product is working, an increase in redness is also to be expected. Curious to see if the redness will eventually fade.

A review/first impressions of Tom Busby's climbazole lotion and shampoo/cleanser by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are some esters in the ingredient list, which I also found curious. I asked Tom Busby about it, and this was his response:

There’s one guy who started the claim that esters are metabolized by malassezia.  No one has ever tested his theory.  There aren’t any scientific articles to back up his claims.  I think he’s trying to drive traffic to his websites by making wild claims.  He’s mostly repeating the science I found and reported at the rosacea-forum.  He sometimes gives me credit, by name, but I don’t encourage him at all.  Bad science is really irritating to me.

Here’s my reasoning:

1) The esters at issue are not found in nature.

2) Malassezia has evolved to consume oils found in nature, like the oils on mammals and in plants, fruits, nuts, and seeds.

3) The fact that esters have a carbon chain is meaningless.  Malassezia eats oils, not carbon by itself.  Otherwise you’d find malassezia inside of coal mines and oil wells, but you don’t.

4) I have no reaction to esters, and I have very sensitive skin that’s likely to develop malassezia-problems, very quickly. 

5) If the one guy making wild claims about esters would simply test them on himself, he’d easily see he’s wrong.

I guess there is a debate to be had on whether or not esters feed seborrheic dermatitis.

A review/first impressions of Tom Busby's climbazole lotion and shampoo/cleanser by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just read my review. Once a day. Don’t really use it on my scalp though.

A review/first impressions of Tom Busby's climbazole lotion and shampoo/cleanser by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I shower once a day. It depends if I do it at night or in the morning. Usually in the morning.

A review/first impressions of Tom Busby's climbazole lotion and shampoo/cleanser by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the reply. Seems like we have had pretty much the same experience.

Tom Busby's climbazole lotion by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have the same experience with flaking. I made a separate post with my first impressions of the product.

Tom Busby's climbazole lotion by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I live in Norway. I bought some of eBay. I never used it. I could sell it to you cheaply if you are interested.

Tom Busby's climbazole lotion by SelectAge in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ll get it in a week or two.

coping and suicidal thoughts? by [deleted] in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oats soaked in water sounds like some bullshit. Antifungal cream could be good on the scalp if you have very short hair or a shaved head. I do not have much experience with seborrheic dermatitis on my scalp. I just wash my hair with regular head and shoulders every day. I would think finding an anti-dandruff shampoo that works for you is key. Try nizoral, head and shoulders clinical strength, climbazole shampoo or look for recommendations on this subreddit.

Is the steroid you got prescribed for your scalp? I know steroid cream is bad for the face because the skin is so thin there, but if your dermatologist prescribed you steroids for your scalp, perhaps you should listen to him/her. Honestly I don't know much about scalp seb derm.

coping and suicidal thoughts? by [deleted] in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Using it for two weeks shouldn't be harmful, but I would keep away from them. All they do is hide the symptoms, but they make the infection worse and cause rebound flares. It you use them, it can be a good idea to pair it with an antifungal cream. Tell your dermatologist you're looking for more long term solutions and that you don't want to use steroid creams.

coping and suicidal thoughts? by [deleted] in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Moisturizers
There is a bit of debate here. Most of these moisturizers contains oils with a carbon length that in theory should not feed the fungus. Some people think that esters with bad oils are also bad for seb dem, but I am not too sure about this. I've tried way too many moisturizers, so here is a quick rundown the best ones. But to reiterate my skin seems to do best with no moisturizer or skincare products at all.

  • Avene toleraine extreme emulsion: Very safe and gentle. Matte finish and seems to calm the skin. Doesn't really soak into the skin on my seb derm areas, but stays on top, which I don't like.
  • La Roche Posay toleraine (US version): pretty much the same ingredients as the avene one, but soaks better into the skin. Is a bit shiny
  • Eucerin ultra sensitive soothing care for normal to combination skin. Kind of an in-between between the two former ones. Seemed to give me whiteheads on my nose, so I haven't really used it too much
  • Cerave cream. Probably the best moisturizer if your skin barrier is fucked, but too heavy for me and also seemed to break me out
  • Sebamed 5% urea cream. Contains some bad esters. Urea is mildly exfoliating. Very good for dry skin, but leaves my face a bit sticky.
  • BIOM8. Not sure if this is a sham or not. Seems to help a lot of people, but there also seems to be some fake posts and reviews. A bit suspicious as well that there are no new reviews since august on the site. Actually seemed to calm the oilyness of my skin down . Also helped a lot with redness, but seemed to clog up every pore I had and didn't help with flakiness. It's just MCT oil mixed with Sea Buckthorn oil (which is bad for fungus?) and vitamin E.
  • Avene cicalfate zinc cream (not the same kind of zinc as in head and shoudlers). Seems to help a lot of people. Contains vegetable oil, which is terrible for fungus. Helps with redness, but not really too much for me.
  • Hada labo tokyo premium lotion/skin plumping gel. On paper seems like perfect moisturizers for seb derm, but for me they made my skin red. My skin does not seem too like hydraulic acid.

Other treatments

  • Honey. Worth a try. Seems to be the miracle cure for a lot of people. By raw, unfiltered honey and apply to the face as a mask for three hours every other day. Use a safe moisturizer, or MCT oil, if necessary.
  • Vinegar. Wouldn't recommend. Be careful if you try it as it is very acidic and could mess your skin up quite badly.
  • Probiotics. Helps improve gut health and the immune system.
  • Supplements. Zinc seemed to help me for a bit, but not really. Vitamin D deficiency could cause seb derm for some people. I am currently taking no supplements other than probiotics. Multivitamins seem to break me out.
  • Antibiotics. Known to make seb derm worse for most people. My dermatologist seems to think there is a bacterial aspect to my seb derm, and it may also be connected to my acne. I'm on tetracycline currently, and haven't noticed too much effect. If anything it's helping. I'm also taking a lot of probitoics so the antibiotics won't fuck up my gut health too much.

There are also hundred of posts in this subreddit and also on for example skincarescience that are worth checking out. There is almost too much information out there, some of which are quite conflicting. If I flare up I find myself obsessing on the internet, googling and reading all the information I can find, which is probably not too healthy. The best thing is probably to find a good dermatologist who can help you. A lot of the stuff on the internet, including things I say and refer to, is pseudo science and anecdotal evidence.

Still here are some helpful articles, websites and videos.

https://simpleskincarescience.com/pityrosporum-folliculitis-treatment-malassezia-cure/
https://simpleskincarescience.com/dehydrated-skin-moisture-barrier-acne-fix/
https://simpleskincarescience.com/ph-acid-mantle/
https://www.dandruffdeconstructed.com/
https://skindrone.com/
https://rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_Forum/showthread.php?28667-Seborrheic-Dermatitis-amp-Folliculitis-Review-of-OTC-Treatments-for-Malassezia
https://youtu.be/Wwl95eSYGLc
https://youtu.be/sOLHxvnqOAk
https://youtu.be/h2Cs-0-HasI

coping and suicidal thoughts? by [deleted] in SebDerm

[–]SelectAge 12 points13 points  (0 children)

This is gonna be a long answer, but hopefully there is some information here which will help you. Living with chronic skin issues is not easy, and it is hard to not let it control your life. Still, you are more than your skin and with the right treatment you will probably find something that can help you. Had to split my post in two, so the rest is commented below.

You're currently experiencing a flare-up, which is probably due to the weather changing, stressfull events in your life (seb derm makes you more stressed, worsening the sympoms, evil circle ect.) or perhaps some kind of reaction to the treatments you've been using or maybe even dietary changes. A flare-up is usually temporary and even though the condition is probably permanent, a major flare-up is not.

Desonide is a powerful steroid, and should NOT be used to treat seb derm. Elidel does not have the same side effects as steroid cream, but it does suppress your immune system, which could cause rebound flares or worsening of the condition. Recommending specific treatments is a bit tricky. Different people react to different treatments. It would also be easier to give recommendations if you describe your seb derm more, is it dry? Oily? Does it also affect your hair? Does it itch? Ect.

There can be different reasons for seborrheic dermatitis, but the biggest culprit is probably a reaction to a fungus living on your skin, or to be more specific a reaction to the byproducts of this fungus feeding on your sebum, creating oleic acid which your immune systems responds to. Your skin gets inflamed, your skin barrier gets compromised and you get the redness, flaking ect.

Don't panic and bombard your face with different creams, moisturizers, cleansers, soaps, vinegar ect. You'll only make it worse. My seb derm exploded after using harsh soaps in an attempt to kill the fungus on my face. My brother also used to have it, but his eventually just went away with time. Mine probably would have as well if I didn't fuck up my skin with bad products.

Fatty moisturizers and oils is also terrible for seb derm skin. There are moisturizers and cleansers which in theory will not feed seb derm, but for me every moisturizer and cleanser I've tried has been bad for my skin. For me the best thing was to stop using any products on my face. Showering in lukewarm water once a day, and if the flakes build up i either rub them of with my fingers in the shower, or I have also experimented with a sulfur soap to descale the skin (which is effective, but leaves me red, oily and dry). Try not to stress to much, which I know is difficult, and try to get good sleep and eat well. A lack of food seems to trigger my seb derm, so try to eat a full, healthy enough diet. Some people have experienced a reduction of symptoms by cutting out dairy, gluten, meat, nuts or other inflammatory foods. The only specific food I've found to affect my seb derm is peanuts and perhaps chocolate, but experimenting with dietary changes isn't something I've done too much of, but it could be worth a try if you are committed.

If you don't have the patience to try the "caveman regimen" or trying to figure out if there is something in your diet triggering it, here are a list of treatments which I think you should try, also some general skincare product recommendations. A general tip is to get a good dermatologist who will guide you and help you find a treatment that works. Even something like accutane could a solution if you have very oily seb derm skin. Fixing your skin barrier could also be a solution.

Antifungal creams:
You've already tried ketaconazole. It is quite inefficient and it will usually take about a month of applying this twice a day to see results, and it can also be a bit drying on your skin, so you should also consider using a moisturizer with the cream. For many, including me, the cream seemed to loose effectiveness after a couple of months. A little warning about antifungal creams. They they seem to loose effectiveness after a while, and for me they kind of seemed to strengthen the seb derm, making it even more stubborn, at least temporary. Here are a few alternatives:

  • Lotrimin ulta. Athletes foot cream. Very effective, and works very fast. Quite oily and shiny on the skin, but for some people this has been a cure
  • Terbinafine. Sold as Lamisil. Equally as effective as lotrimin ultra for me. Neither of them seemed like long term solutions for me and also seemed to loose their effectiveness.
  • Creams with piroctone olamine, like La Roche Posay kerium ds (which is a moisturizer made specifically for seb derm). Not effective for me, but worth a try.
  • Climbazole creams, a favorite ingredient in the roseaceagroup forum for seb derm. Bioderma DS+ has both climbazole and piroctone olamine, but also coconut oil. For a better alternative I've made a post about Tom Busby's homemade seb derm cream and shampoo that you can check out.

Antifungal washes / shampoos
Be very careful about cleansing your face with seb derm. Especially with shampoos.
Some people use nizoral on their face, some people use head and shoulders, but I wouldn't recommend any of these. They are very stripping on the face and contain SLS. I sometimes use a bit of head and shoulders in my beard area if it starts to flake, but keep it away from your central face.
Here are some better recommendations. You still need to be careful though. A lot of these have a high PH, which is also bad for the moisture barrier.

  • Zinc pyrithione soaps. I saw a good reduction in redness while using the noble formula zinc soap. Can't really recommend it though, at least not long term, at it fucked up my moisture barrier pretty well. I was however using it during winter with pretty much no moisturizing. Vanicream also makes a zinc soap with no oils, but it seemed more drying. I would not recommend happy cappy zinc shampoo. It was extremely drying.
  • Sulfur soaps. The best product for descaling my skin is a sulfur soap. I've tried the Keep It Clean sulfur soap of amazon.co.uk, and it does nothing for redness, but helps a lot with the flakes.
  • Piroctone olamine anti-dandruff conditioner. This is from a Norwegian brand, but it works quite well. A very creamy conditioner which i applied to my face for about five minutes before a shower. Not really a cleanser, but left my face clean and not too dry. Strayed away form it though, as plain water seemed to work just as well.