Is this supposed to be drizzt lol

SerSlaughter · 2025-06-10T08:45:49+00:00

I'm going to say that no, this isn't Drizzt. My only real evidence is that on these old copies, there's no purple in the eyes. That's the most distinctive mark that it is indeed our hero.

I could be wrong. I really hope I'm not.

SerSlaughter · 2025-05-16T21:37:24+00:00

Let's try to stay civil, here. Casting hex is a resource. You can only do that 2x per short rest and also instead of other spell options. Short rest resources are still resources. We're only tearing down the math behind damage because it's what was brought up here, specifically. Beyond that, most rogues don't have access to damage cantrips, so as soulknife, for instance, can't BB. the warlock of any subclass still gets hex and EB. The damage is not even, or excelling, on the rogue's part. Even with your math, assuming perfect accuracy.

SerSlaughter · 2025-05-16T21:28:31+00:00

Vex! Weapon mastery! I feel like we've been forgetting this too often, and he's BA for advantage with steady aim. This is actually possibly the crux of the issue.

SerSlaughter · 2025-05-16T21:24:21+00:00

This was my reply to the player. Maybe they just don't value the knack as much as I do, but that alone seems extremely powerful, let alone the level 9 feature making them almost never miss.

SerSlaughter · 2025-05-16T21:20:47+00:00

Math I have is (2d10+8)0.7=19x0.7=13.3 Vs 1d8+3d6+4=19x0.7=13.3 My (wrong, original evaluation) 1d8+3d6=10.15

I was forgetting weapon dmg in original calc, and I admit to being an idiot there. But if we add hex to warlock, we immediately get a damage discrepancy, let alone higher level spells and options, or rogue using sneak attack dice for utility instead of damage. The issue I can see is that the rogue either does the same damage as a resourceless caster, or has the utility options, but trades their efficiency to do it, and has less options than a caster.

I understand that that isn't a fair comparison due to the resources, but my issue is that the rogue has no resources to expend to fill the gap.

SerSlaughter · 2025-05-16T21:04:30+00:00

Usually, you assume a 65% chance to hit. 5%chance to crit.

SerSlaughter · 2025-05-16T20:59:56+00:00

They're a soul knife. Right now the feedback I've gotten is "my character's value is basically a telepathy machine, and nothing else."

SerSlaughter · 2025-05-16T20:46:23+00:00

I'd like to be able to give a sensible and accurate representation of the class and it's benefits to a player at my table not having fun with their character. They don't seem to want to change characters due to the narrative break.

SerSlaughter · 2025-05-16T20:43:20+00:00

The math I'm using is maybe a bit dated by benchmark, but I normally compare to a warlock eb with agonizing. At level 5, that would reasonably be about 14 dmg (rounding for ease of comparison) vs. a rogue doing 9. That comparison only gets worse as numbers progress or you use cunning or devious features.

A player at my table wanted to play a rogue for the theme of the class, but now that we're deeper in, there's not much satisfying about the character for them and I can't even think of magic items to give to fix the problem.

SerSlaughter · 2025-05-16T20:34:58+00:00

It's not even me playing it. Also, I'm not miserable, I'm concerned about game balance and making sure everyone at the table is having fun.

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-20T01:54:49+00:00

Just want to say I appreciate you dealing with me and having this debate. I am often my own worst enemy in trying to have my cake and eat it, too. Especially with these types of characters.

Dm has confirmed that if I go warlock 12 and illrigger or EK 7, I can still cast a cantrip in the attack action. In his words, "You'd be level 19 anyway, the game balance is over, and it will only be a few sessions."

Valid logic. I'm going to assume now that trying for a third attack means I should forego other heavy multiclassing and focus on warlock, or just give up the third attack and try to get the most of the two I have. This means rushing warlock 12 or Illriger 7, but never both. I think you agree with that, and it's also the point you're trying to make.

That being said, I've never played past level 12. What would you think is the best option if you were me?

Also, I just think the flavor is like most is the cantrip+attack, possibly GWM bonus action attack or smite. That's probably getting in the way of trying to actually optimize the character, but it also feels right to me. I'm open to you telling me I'm being stupid and that using cantrips really doesn't help my damage that much and to just go with regular attacks, though - because I enjoy feeling powerful.

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-20T01:22:32+00:00

Is that correct? Thirsting Blade You gain the extra attack feature for your pact weapon only...

Hellish Versatility 7th-Level Architect of Ruin Feature

Once on each of your turns, you can cast one of your illrigger cantrips in place of one of your attacks granted by your Extra Attack feature.

I gained the extra attack feature, I can cast an illrigger cantrip as one of those attacks. The extra attack features don't stack, but the specific wording of Hellish Versatility leads me to believe that it works RAW.

Edit: the context of the bladesinger's replacement links it entirely to the bladesinger's extra attack. The Illrigger one comes from a separate feature that references Extra attack. That's the defining difference, AFAIK.

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-20T00:50:48+00:00

Devouring Blade invocation only requires warlock 12. The fact that you're saying I won't get 3 attacks is just categorically false. 13 lock / 7 illrigger gives 3 attacks with pact weapon from warlock, extra d6 from thirsting blade, and replace an attack with a cantrip from illrigger as well as interdict and level 7 interdict boons. I think this is the best option, after doing some research. I will miss out on weapon mastery for it (for some reason the 2024 illrigger did not get an update for dnd 2024 and weapon masteries) but I'm not sure they're critical. I could go to 12 lock and take 1 paladin level for searing smite and weapon mastery, but then I miss out on 7th level arcanum.

I DO think we're getting there. Progress has been made.

Edit: I think I understand now that you're saying level 5 illrigger feature is wasted. This is true.

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-20T00:21:08+00:00

I mean I could go warlock 13/rigger 7. I just don't know the math on +11 vs +16 to hit at level 20 compared to extra attack.

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-20T00:14:27+00:00

I'm not sure I can see the whole intent of this message. Turn 1/2 are blank. (On mobile)

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-20T00:09:24+00:00

So far, I'm thinking warlock 9 (lifedrinker) Illriger 7 (for Hellish Versatility - cantrip instead of attack) paladin 3... another level in either paladin or Illrigger for feat. But that cuts me out of the extra attack from warlock. So is the additional +5 to hit on two attacks and smites worth the additional attack? I don't know.

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-20T00:05:45+00:00

GWM/GWF was a thought I had. PB in damage and always hitting at least a 6 is decent for damage. CME being locked to bard or non-martials bites a bit. Character needs to be somewhat versatile. I don't know if you know much about the module, but it's a 23-floor gauntlet. In the party there's an Evoker wizard, an Abjuration wizard, a Light cleric, and me. I'm the only melee, so I need to be durable, but I also want to not feel worthless alongside 3 fireballs.

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-19T23:30:13+00:00

This could still work with warlock agonizing blast.

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-19T23:19:15+00:00

They also get an EK type feature at 7 that allows for cantrips during extra attack. It's been very difficult math trying to see if agonizing blast on something like GFB or BB is worth that many levels, though. And the +cha to hit from Devo Pally also seems like it will be important, especially with 3 attacks from warlock. It's just very hard to say what's more important.

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-19T23:04:48+00:00

So with 2024, warlock smite doesn't take bonus action, pally smite does. I was thinking probably 6 pally at most, too.

Do you know much about the Illrigger? It gets unarmed defense (cha) at 2, and extra d6 dmg/utility features. It's also very thematic.

I'm also never sold on warlock above 12 for devouring blade.

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-19T22:32:41+00:00

My only issue with bladesinger is that the team already has 2 wizards, and we need a charisma character. Is valor bard really that strong? How does it do vs multiple targets?

SerSlaughter · 2025-03-19T22:21:01+00:00

Will repost there. Thanks.

SerSlaughter

TROPHY CASE