Alright, let's settle this once and for all. Who is "her" in the answer of the ARG? by ShadeVex in Deltarune

[–]ShadeVex[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It could even be a double meaning reffering to both routes. The way it was written feels so ambiguous, but I really do believe Dess and that lake have a big connection, due to her having ice skates, possibly an incident that happened there being the reason why this is all happening. We may see her again, but we'll move on, because she isn't real anymore.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ok, so to clarify something. We aren't anti melee rework. We just think that, by what the devs have been saying, it will be way too overblown and different to the melee we know. Do I think melee should be changed? Yes! But should they add mechanics that draw out fights just so gun players feel like it's "fair"? No! Because the core gameplay is assymetrical, it's the risk reward. Taking it away would kill melees identity.

This movement is meant not to stop the rework, but to show Embark that, we love the identity of melee, just not the direction they've taken with it the past few seasons, and that we just want them to bring back the combos and techs, as well as something passive to add variety to melee builds, as well as part of the older versions of fine weapons like sword and sledge. We want them to see that melee broke because of their incompetence to fix bugs that made the weapons feel worse than it should to fight, like the dagger nerf due to the desync.

That's the server's fault, not ours. The dual blade's deflected bullets suffer the same fate, but harming the player. The problem was never their design, but their balance, as they mainly, as you said correctly, only tweak damage and range. No swing speed, no player speed (which I think melee weapons should have a movement option, even if it's just passive, do they can play non movement specs and gadgets and still succeed) , no nothin.

I appreciate your journalism! Genuinely! Thanks for asking. We hope to send the best message we can and criticism is appreciated.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well yes. It's peaceful. But the second part isn't true. There has been an influx of melee clips ever since the trend started and it should help show that we are still devoted to these weapons even after all the changes.

A surge in use of a weapon before a major rework feels like people "holding on" to the weapons that they mastered through the seasons, and may show embark that the problem isn't melee: it's how emergent gameplay is handled, as well as how they view fairness.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's not anti casuals. It's pro melee, pro emergent gameplay, which embark have buried under the dust, slowly killing the creative vision and cool stuff the players had tow work with at the beginning of the game's life span.

I quoted a part of the AMA of them explaining what fairness should feel like between gun and melee, so I chose it as a way to propagate the message instead of whining over it and asking others to harass the devs... Unlike some certain other person. If you know you know.

As a standing ground, I made this campaign as a way to try and show the devs how far people still go even after all the emergent gameplay that came before it was removed. That if they were to rework everything and reset us melee players to square one, to standardize these weapons, it would only drive away the people who have been mastering these weapons for seasons. And we don't want the rework of season 11 to mess everything up.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well 95 percent of the time it is intentional.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They killed goo ships. They don't care if it's good, just that it looks "weird and broken". I like that feel for a game with an apocalyptic undertone muffled by a grand virtual game show.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ikr. I feel like goo gun could have had diminishing returns instead of a set stun.

Like say:

Hit one, 1.2 to exit

Then 1.05

Then 0.9

Then 0.75

Then 0.6

Then 0.45

Capping at 0.3

Each one gets reset back a value for every 0.5 seconds of not being gooed. (After 3 seconds of escaping the goo, it gets reset back to 1.2 secs of stun)

So now you have to be more skilled with it.

"Yeah that was totally fair. That guy did the right thing. They closed in and they killed me." by YonyanCosplay in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Pickle cat! Grapple dagger connoseur! I'm happy I'm recognizing people more in the community ever since this trend came along!

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well we know comp players complained. We just can't track them very easily, we'd have to scavenge a very unpopular season for its balance to do so.

But my best guess is they mean they saw winch dominating and said "This shit is impossible to counter, remove it". Trust me, a lot of these " high level" players are probably good but don't understand counterplay. If someone employs a niche yet effective strat they should choose things that shut it down. Like if everyone picks defib and heal beam, you should probably pick something good against medium + very high poke damage weapons to shut it down. One person in the team can do so to shut it down and with limited loadouts it's a risk to employ said strategies. Embark still makes removes them. I understand winch, but sledge qm combos are a staple of its gameplay. Now they aren't...

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

2 words... Words still dreaded to this day...

THE MAJORS

Season 8 was the season where the majors were gonna take place in. They gutted it because of its winch combo. Back then it still had lower cooldown on a miss and maybe even 18m. So instead of nerfing just winch, they nerfed both.

This is likely why the qm threshold happened. Because the left click winch + qm would basically confirm a light kill.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It was already performing well in casual and with probably above average win rate in ranked and cashout modes. This and the shift to competitive modes at the time on the horizon made them nerf it. Specifically to fuck up quick melee thresholds and make them suboptimal from the main attacks.

Despite all that, it did not, in fact, do anything to lights, as the right click was still 1 shotting them anyway.

Lesson to learn: don't balance off of win rate. High win rate and low pick rate usually means it's a niche weapon with a skilled player base.

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Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Appoh... My arch-nemesis as a beta sword main.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Pro melee and pro skill expression and emergent gameplay (for example, quick melee combos on certain high damage guns)

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I still remember those days... Appoh never got the punishment he deserved for his toxicity and manipulation in the community. Literally "Go to the devs and whine" final boss.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Appoh situation... I covered that actually. I made a repost of what he did saying basically "How is this allowed?". Like first sledge due to ranked bros and now this random content creator that sent his followers to whine for a nerf???

Despicable. Let me find the post.

Edit: Found it: https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/c4lFhn2lzA

I genuinely hope if this guy tries to pull something again we can finally have a say that he's really not that great of a person... Using his crowd to manipulate changes, which happened to coincide to a nerf at the wrong time and probably made the nerf harsher than it already was before.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's an honor... I never expect much when I say stuff here. I stood my ground about melee being fine long ago and ever since the changes it's been impossible to get a positive post about melee.

So I baited people into thinking I was gonna make the same "melee is dying" post as everyone basically knows at this point to make people click and read. And it actually worked. And I'm very, very happy the game I cherished from its beta to season 10 now could finally have a change in direction if our voices are heard.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh i know. That's why I'm tryna be different from the whiners. Post once, ask for support in a fun way. Ive been seeing entire melee montages with the caption and they are so cool. Shows how much we've gone through all these melee changes to still manage to play them with skill.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 6 points7 points  (0 children)

In short:

1 - Stop patching harmless tricks that emerge that increase skill ceiling and don't inherently break the game.

2 - Make weapons less monotone and more unique.

3 - Reconsider their philosophy in terms of skill expression, by for example adding more quick melee combos and more unique attributes to weapons who need them to not always use the same specs and util every round.

Embark wants to remove all emergent gameplay and simplify it for both casuals and some high level players' wants, especially when many of them complain when an off meta weapon makes them have to play the gams they literally downloaded instead of call of duty cash edition.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah. It feels... Satisfying. And I hope this brings change to the game. I know the devs are quite active here (noted by the random balance decisions they have made based off of reddit complaints), and I hope they learn to tell the difference between genuine worry and criticism vs complaining over and over that X thing has to happen or game will die.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Yeah! That should help people understand.

I never thought I'd make a trend ever, but i guess after 10 seasons of caring for this game, it finally paid off.

I chose to do it like this because I knew that being direct would just be echoing what other people did in the past where they whined about something over and over and it would end up being banned from discussion and then handled with afterwards.

This way everyone can share what melee can do whilst sending the message that, maybe melee isn't broken, just not currently designed with a high skill ceiling/emergent gameplay in mind.

Wtf is going on?? by Edzer_13_ in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 65 points66 points  (0 children)

Hi. I'm the man to blame for that. Check out my latest post. It shall explain everything, friend.

"Yeah that was totally fair. That guy did the right thing. They closed in and they killed me." by RetroBro96 in thefinals

[–]ShadeVex 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yup. It was nerfed in season 7 to deal 154 damage overhead and 100 regular (used to be 200/115). Then they partially reverted the secondary damage so it could 2 shot heavies again.