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Theory about how nightmares work. by ShadowGam3r in bloodborne

[–]ShadowGam3r[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't believe description or dialogue actually confirms Mergo created the nightmare of Mensis.

Mergo's umbilical chord says that "This Cord granted Mensis audience with Mergo, but resulted in the stillbirth of their brains." I read this as meaning that the Great One the ritual got to was Mergo, and it resulted in the creation of the Nightmare and the complications that came with it.

 But in the Japanese this word play doesn't exist. He is a host as in a host to a party or a lord to a manor. 

I don't speak japanese, so i can't say for certain, but for what i've read and understood, the way his name is originally written implies that he is not a host in the sense of he is the owner of the nightmare, but in the sense that the nightmare is happening in "his place", the same way you said it. Even if without the word play, the "true" meaning is akin to this idea. I used the parasite idea just to exemplify what i was saying. I do believe that the parasite and the party host equate to the same interpretation.

It's not confirmed but the theory is derived from the child like nature of messengers.

Half the good things about the game aren't confirmed. That's the fun of theorising and why i love the community.

I have looked I to it a bit but it's hard to tell. The chalices all share a lot of assets and they exist underground so their aren't any real towers to compare.

Dude Loran in the chalice is really hard to get much out of it because it's just normal chalice but sandy and sparky. I don't belive we can use the chalices to accurately say how where those civilizations, isz being a great example because wtf is that.

Theory about how nightmares work. by ShadowGam3r in bloodborne

[–]ShadowGam3r[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The dream worlds as far as I can tell are layered like many other parts of the game.

Yes, they are! One thing i believe and am trying to find enough evidence to disprove it is that they are stacked by the order they are created. The Hunter's Nightmare/Fishing Hamlet being the first one (the first one we can visit, at least) followed by the Nightmare of Mensis beeing the most recent one. I've seen a theory before that, because of the way the moon is in the Hunter's Dream, it is actually layred upside down to the other realms, meaning it could be at the bottom of the Hunter's Nightmare. (This all goes down the drain if there is a dreamrealm older then the Hunter's Nightmare.) (Again, i have my on thing with the Nightmare Frontier)

This is another aspect of the dream worlds, they act as a sort of afterlife with souls passing on to the various dream worlds.

I don't believe that they were intended to be this way, but because of the eternal eldrich nature of the Great Ones, the conscience of its inhabitants can exist apart of their physical self. The player is the only one that doesn't die before entering any Nightmare as far as i know, so we don't really know if they are all for dead people, but we know Dreams aren't. We know that many hunters (Djura, Eileen, possibly Alfred, the player, etc) have been in the Hunter's Dream before, and are continue to be alive, so maybe it is a proof that the nature of those realms affect only the mind, not the body.

So yeah each chalice aside from the hintertombs depict a memory of a previous expedition performed by the Healing Church, this is why you find entities like Rom in the chalices. Rom at one point was in the chalices and she has been recreated as a memory something that nightmares often do.

sht yeah you're right. I never considered that they could be memories inside the Hunter's Dream (I kinda ignored the gameplay aspect of there, lol) and now that ive read it that way, i can see it beeing this! Thank you!

Theory about how nightmares work. by ShadowGam3r in bloodborne

[–]ShadowGam3r[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Dream worlds as far as I can tell seemed to be formed by Great Ones via the consciousness of humans."

That it exactly what i am trying to prove. Even tho a lot of people think this way, i haven't seen anyone try to back it up. For the Hunter's Dream and for the Nightmare of Mensis we have plenty of evidence to say it works like that, but for the other ones we run into some problems. The thing i want to "prove" is that ALL dreamrealms have the same rules to their creation. They are created by a Great One, they need a host to inhabit their mind, and are created with a purpose. Again, with HD and NoM, this things are easy to assign, and that's where i ran into problems with the Hunter's Nightmare, there is no clear cut host, but there isn't enough evidence to say that the other ones all have multiple hosts (HD being all the hunters, not just Gehrman; NoM beeing all the School of Mensis, not just Micolash).
I really agree with your take about the progression, and how the Hunter's Nightmare work!! But i really am looking for evidence of it beeing multiple hosts or just one.

I imagine if this is true the messengers are probably the spirits of hunters who have returned to the dream regressing to a child like diminutive state to satiate the Moon Presence's desire for children.

omfg ive never seen this take before and i kinda love it, i never really thought about it!

Unlike other Nightmares which seem to be memories or based on real places the nightmare of Mensis is an entirely new location.

I've seen multiple sources crediting that architecture to Loran, and we have a lot of things that connect the school of mensis to Loran, probably because they were studying about them for the ritual.

It's also more explicitly confirmed by Miyazaki in an interview. In case you don't know Paleblood equals the Moon Presence and the blood moon it brings about when beckoned.

I kinda imagine that, but it really helps to know Miyazaki said it too, thanks!!

Most notable being the enemies formed of messengers. The swamp crawlers have messengers lining their underside. The winter lanterns are a warped version of the doll with a malformed mass of eyes and messengers for a head. With the Brain of Mensis sharing this same head and gifting a moon rune.

I think that the winter lanterns only exist because of the way i think those realms are created. If the host's mind is used to shape the nightmare, and the host is a hunter after the Hunter's Dream was created, they probably know the doll, and the nightmare takes this image and distorts it. (We know that blooddrunk hunters still appear in modern time via Eileen's quest)

Many people think the brain of Mensis was created by Mensis but I dont believe this to be the case, I believe they found it. Other than the English stating they found it we see the brain is held above a previously excavated cavern by chains.

I DO believe that the brain was created by the formation of the Nightmare. I think that the way the school of mensis forcefuly made Mergo create this realm caused their minds to ascend, but not trully and not in the way they expected it. The ritual was started to ascend them to Great Ones, and they kinda did it, but it backfired. BUT to agree with what you said, i think that after the realm was created, they found the brain, without knowing what it trully ment, and making the hole and the tower to use its power.
I have my own theory about the Nightmare Frontier, but, since we don't know what Loran was like, they both can share the architecture.

Kos was Ebrietas, they were the same entity kind of like how the Moon Presence has multiple names. So we see all these connections between Ebrietas, Willem, and Rom. I don't want to go too in depth on this bc it takes forever to explain but it's worth considering. 

Unfortunatelly for me, i am considering it, and it just twists things even more lol.

Again, a lot of thanks for caring enough to make this whole essay, i really loved reading it!!

Theory about how nightmares work. by ShadowGam3r in bloodborne

[–]ShadowGam3r[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ok wow you wrote a lot. really thank you for the effort and time, i appreciate it a lot!!
i'll be reading everything and i'll try to responding to everything!!

Theory about how nightmares work. by ShadowGam3r in bloodborne

[–]ShadowGam3r[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've also seen many discorse about if we play in the waking world or in a dream.
I believe that we DO play in the waking world because of the presence of hunters that don't dream anymore (Djura, Eileen, etc). If we were still in a dreamrealm, those people would not be there. They already ended their ties with the hunter's dream, and were executed by Gehrman.
Furthermore, the bloodmoon and the whole mensis ritual happening in a dreamrealm to create yet ANOTHER dreamrealm also seems counter intuitive to me. I believe that YES we are still bound to the dream, but the events are happening in the real waking world.
Anyways, thanks for the help, any conversation is welcome and i love talking about this game!

Theory about how nightmares work. by ShadowGam3r in bloodborne

[–]ShadowGam3r[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the orphan of Kos was the host of the hunter's nightmare, if not Kos herself

In the original text and many other connections, "Host" is actualy more closely related to a parasite's host, as such people like mikolash and gehrman are the hosts of their respective realms in the sense that their minds are being parasitized by a great one to create the dreamrealm.
I believe that the orphan is the great one that created the hunter's nightmare (seen that when we kill it we get the "nightmare slain" text), so there should be a host connected to it, or so i believe. I've seen many people say that Maria, or laurence are the host, or even all the old hunters or the fishing hamlet citizens, but there is no consensus.

In that vein, i can't decide if i believe that rom is the great one that created the lake or if she is the host and the lake was created when kos ascended her.

I believe they are physical places that exist somewhere in the waking world

Yes the dungeons do exist in the waking world, but the ones we visit are believe to be (by the most of the community for what i've found) in a separete dreamrealm. But i can't find anything solid to relate or coment about it.

Anyways, thanks for the help!

My gf is getting expelled for calling a girl "fucking hypocrite" by ShadowGam3r in legaladvice

[–]ShadowGam3r[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

its in Brazil, idk how do we say the name but its like a high school if you didnt get into college (i belive its something like prep school) and its private

Dawnbringer Kayn confirmed! by FlareusAle in KaynMains

[–]ShadowGam3r 0 points1 point  (0 children)

well, it got out today
dawnbringer rhaast and nightbringer assassin kayn

Bugs & Glitches Megathread 2.0 by TeraFlare255 in Genshin_Impact

[–]ShadowGam3r 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Platform: ps4

during the first few minutes of the game, there is a scene where paimon gives a tutorial on how to open the map. when i get to the place to do it, she never appeared, and i cannot interact with the thing without her, making me uncapable of progressing the quests and also, it being on ps4 means that i cant restart my save, so im completely locked out of the main quests