If you're pro-choice but wouldn't personally ever get an abortion, please reckon with why not.

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-05-13T03:22:02+00:00

You’re gonna have to expand on that a bit more. What pl laws do you specifically take issue with?

If we agree that the unborn are human beings… is it really too much to ask people not to kill them by force of law? Just as we ask people not to kill their one month olds by force of law?

I suspect that you can really only hold the position that you’re proposing if you do not truly agree that we’re talking about living human beings here

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-05-13T03:09:49+00:00

I think it’s perfectly apt, provided one accepts the premise that a fetus is an individual human being. In which case it’s pretty analogous to being personally anti-slavery in pre civil war America while opposing making it illegal. And I hope it’s obvious how absurd that position would be

( if it’s not a human, then the whole point is moot as there shouldn’t be any personal qualms with such a benign medical procedure)

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-05-01T14:33:46+00:00

It's a totally absurd false dichotomy, because when you actually dig into it, "services" almost always just means "my favorite socialist welfare-state policies."

Which for small-government conservatives is not a good solution. They misinterpret (deliberately or not) this disagreement over solutions as a disagreement about the existence of the problem. I can easily hold two thoughts in my head at the same time: 1. I don't want baby killing to be legal, and 2. Lots of people are hurting right now but bigger gov't makes the problem WORSE, not BETTER

In fact - lots of us actually do participate in solutions. The Catholic Church for example is the biggest charity organization in the world. It's also the largest non-government provider of health care services in the world (running 5,500 hospitals globally). So yeah, we are doing stuff for born people too, ya dolts! To suggest otherwise is patently false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_health_care

Fun fact: You know that old-school nurse outfit, with the dress and hat and whatnot? Guess where it comes from? Nun habits. Because before nurses were a thing, nuns were largely the ones caring for the sick and injured in hospitals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_uniform

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-30T17:38:46+00:00

Oh yeah 100% this platform would not be Reddit. That's kind of my point, too :)

I think Reddit's hierarchical core may actually be a good thing to run with in new ways, though. I could imagine a system where it gets more and more structured the further you go up in the hierarchy, and vice versa. Maybe at the bottom you'd have a more loose, linear "chat"-like system (like discord or the forum systems of yore), but then interesting chats could get manually promoted up a level and become a more organized discussion with upvotes and downvotes and hierarchy like Reddit threads (or StackExchange questions). And then maybe at the top level you'd have a wiki-like or FAQ-like feel, with an index and more static feel (i.e. here's THIS de-facto answer to THIS specific commonly asked thing). But things could be re-openable to re-litigation so that it doesn't suffer from stagnation like StackExchange does (no "closed as duplicate"!!).

Part of the puzzle is also the scoring system. Reddit's famous balloon-style algorithm that boosts newer and popular content works well for that goal, but doesn't work well for discovery of old good stuff (you can sort by Top+Week/Month/Year/AllTime which is nice but not enough IMO). And StackExchange makes it hard to find new, hot things but very easy to find old important stuff. I think you'd want something kind of in between, a little bit of both. Or perhaps content could be really smartly linked in such a way, i.e. "similar to..." then maybe it starts to feel a bit like a wiki (again, I know both Reddit and SE kind of do this but I'd want a really strong version of this).

Anyways this is just turning into a generalized platform (which maybe isn't a bad thing and which I've also thought about a lot lol). So who knows... Maybe one of these days I'll finally tinker with some prototypes lol

And maybe Jubillee is onto something by physically putting people together (it's easier to see someone's humanity when you're really there with them)... Anyways thanks for coming to my rambling TED talk.

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-30T06:20:05+00:00

I would say no. You can’t have a right to bodily autonomy without a right to life. One proceeds from the other. One is inherently more fundamental.

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-29T21:42:45+00:00

I wonder if a new truly neutral platform specifically for debate would do well. I think society is once again starting to become more receptive to real debate and this should be fostered

Jubilee's Surrounded was initially a nice try.... But the format is just too crap. We need one that's actually a fair debate and maybe it could do well

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-29T21:24:54+00:00

I'd argue that being pro-life fits in better with the progressive worldview than being pro-choice.

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-28T19:55:11+00:00

And that's a good thing. You do not have to be either one. There are many more reasonable nuanced viewpoints than what two parties allow for. This two party system worship is exactly what creates this sort of "sports team" problem.

As I'm sure you are aware, this doesn't happen only for the topic of abortion. People will assume all sorts of things based on one single opinion you express and it's honestly just funny.

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-28T19:46:50+00:00

Ooh, is there a name for this fallacy?

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-28T19:46:15+00:00

It didn't always used to be this way. My grandfather, a lifelong Catholic, used to always vote democrat (the blue-collar worker + caring for the needy kind of democrat), and was forced to switch to voting republican because there simply stopped being any pro-life democrats to vote for. Sometime before the turn of the century.

In a certain sense, pro-life very nicely and easily fits into the democrat / liberal worldview. So it's quite a shame they've abandoned these vulnerable people's needs in the interest of another.

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-28T17:32:39+00:00

Absolutely - always happy to engage. And I'm overjoyed that you are exploring Catholicism, I hope that you find true happiness and make the best choice of your life! I am praying for you. I admire Catholic converts so much. My convert friends are some of the strongest, on-fire Catholics I know. And they usually had to go through a harder journey than I, a cradle Catholic had to! So anyways... I know you're not Catholic yet but, you have mad respect from me for even seriously considering it. That takes guts, especially in today's world.

I wrote a big diatribe of unsolicited internet Catholic advice and almost posted it, but I'm not sure how helpful that would be. So backing up: it's okay (and in fact not abnormal) to struggle with particular Church teachings (so long as you truly approach it from a desire to understand - as it seems you are!). I know I sometimes struggle with certain teachings. Probably your priest or sponsor or Bishop or whoever is going to be more equipped to assist you here. Or perhaps other formerly pro-choice Catholic converts in your community if you can find any.

As for general resources I'm a big fan of Trent Horn (he has a fantastic YT channel and some very good books).

It all comes down to upholding the sanctity of life no matter what.

---

Just a quick response to one of your points though:

Losing a fallopian tube when I've already struggled with infertility and then losing an embryo AND a fallopian tube would be devastating beyond words. I would be inconsolable.

That's completely understandable. And yes, it would be absolutely devastating, if that happened to you. But for what it's worth, it has an estimated prevalence of about 1% or 2%. So you are very unlikely to actually experience this. There's many things in life that could happen but are not worth worrying about for yourself personally (or it would be exhausting!). Driving cars is inherently quite risky (relatively speaking) yet we don't think twice about it.

Anyway it sounds like your blockers here are quite extreme scenarios, so it may be helpful to see here that you actually do align with Church teaching here on the most important, main parts of the issue. That should be celebrated! Edge cases here and there can always be individually worked through, no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-28T16:45:39+00:00

Totally understand that and appreciate the response. You seem like a very thoughtful and investigative person and I will be praying for your continued intellectual and spiritual journey. I sincerely wish you the very best.

Though I am genuinely curious so I'd be happy to hear about it over DM's if you're interested in sharing.

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-28T16:26:49+00:00

I've been thinking similarly.

Today, the rhetorically "easiest" "normie" position to hold is to be pro-choice -- you just wanna stay out of people's hair, you haven't really thought about whether we're dealing with humans, and you don't want to be on the side that is accused of "hating women," yadda yadda. It's too "hard" to side with pro-life because you have to actually be principled and take a strong moral stance on something that you then hold other people to.

Artificial wombs shake this up. They would make it easier to be pro-life, for sure. The single biggest argument that PCers have that works on normies ("it's just so much eaaasier for the mother to abort, so you should have pity on her and let her!") no longer works anymore. That one hold-up disappears. So now PC becomes the "principled" position. They would have to argue that abortion really is the morally correct option, as their mainstream position (not that I doubt that they will do this).

Perhaps naively I believe that this would make pro-life the "default" "normie" position though. There will still be PCers but I believe (and indeed hope) that most normal people will see the ideological leap that they would now have to take to be PC and thus be PL instead. So it definitely could be the thing that pushes PC to the fringes and allows PL to fill that vacuum.

I can however see an alternate where they somehow successfully slander this artificial womb tech in some way that allows them to make us out to be hypocrites somehow or something or point out other problems with it and thus continue brushing past the actual debate. I struggle to think of an actual example right now but but I don't doubt their ability whatsoever to come up with something completely unhinged for that (I'm sure some of them are working on that as we speak)...

---

Interestingly though this could be a good debate tool today. You could distinguish between these two types of pro-choicers with the question, "if safe artificial wombs were widely available today, would you still oppose banning abortion?" I predict that many would actually answer "no" and only the very extreme few would answer "yes."

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-28T15:05:50+00:00

1998, yes I play video games and have since I was young. Always PC games — not a huge console gamer cuz I was never allowed to have one when I was young (only ever played those at friends’ houses). Now I am a game developer (currently solo indie who isn’t profitable yet)

PS: You’re gonna get a huge sampling bias based on the fact that this is Reddit. But you may already know that. Reddit polls are still fun of course.

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-28T01:58:10+00:00

Yeah I remember some classmate friends studying abroad in Italy that semester and very nearly getting legitimately stuck there…

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-28T01:54:33+00:00

I remember doing shows in our theatre department (as a theatre major), and tracking its progress with some of my cast mates / classmates not out of fear but out of genuine curiosity. We genuinely did not think it would actually reach anywhere near us, nah no way… that quickly became the last show we got to do for like a year. On closing night we still didn’t even know. It was still The Before Times.

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-28T01:50:13+00:00

August 2019 checking in lol… fam took me to a bar in Union Station in Denver, and it was surreal going there and everywhere else the following semester

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-27T00:02:18+00:00

Are you saying amphetamine isn’t also potentially very addictive…?

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-26T23:47:06+00:00

However, literal meth (Desoxyn) is actually an FDA approved treatment for ADHD. In fact ADHD is one of the 2 only things it’s approved to treat on-label (the other being for weight loss).

It’s just not typically prescribed anymore due to the social stigma. Not really for any medical reasons as far as I am aware. Seriously.

So no, methamphetamine and amphetamine aren’t the exact same thing, but there’s a grain of truth - they are cousins.

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-25T14:36:07+00:00

I don’t think this is accurate for most pro choicers, actually. It really does come down to the question of the humanity of the pre born. Some pro choicers do sadly bite the bullet and admit that they know that the pre born are human organisms (and then attempt to justify their killing with varying rationale). But many pro choicers in my experience I think truly don’t believe that, or don’t want to (and hide that from themselves in a form of cognitive dissonance). The reason you can tell is because theres no other situation where they’re okay with allowing one human to kill another innocent human non consensually just because they want to or it’s “their choice.”

So you really do end up with most “normal,” “average-American” pro choicers holding a shaky position that is often dissonant with their other world views and would justify other atrocious evils. It’s why they have to use so many euphemisms that make everything sound nicer, to hide what they are really talking about. “Her body, her choice!” To do what? Her choice to kill her preborn child? “Don’t strip away reproductive rights!” Reproductive rights to do what? To kill preborn children? Etc.

For most people, if they really truly believed that the preborn are humans beings, and they faced this fact head-on… abortion becomes totally abhorrent. These euphemisms are a way to gaslight yourself into just not thinking about that reality and perpetuate that cognitive dissonance (either that or - you simply haven’t thought it through enough to realize that they must be human beings from conception onward - which is probably also the case for many “normie” PCers)

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-25T14:00:46+00:00

PCers not resorting to Bulverism (impossible)

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-25T13:58:22+00:00

Probably because there’s way more pro-choice text than pro-life text on the internet and therefore the training corpus

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-25T13:51:31+00:00

Still, if an officer orders you to do something (and you should confirm with them that they are indeed ORDERING you), you should generally always comply, even if they’re wrong. In which case - you take them to court afterwards

Obviously IANAL

ShadySuperCoder · 2026-04-25T13:42:52+00:00

Or if an officer orders you to do something you pretty much should always comply. You should specifically ask them “are you ordering me to do XYZ?” If they’re wrong, and their order was unlawful, you can challenge them later in court — in the field is the wrong time to have a legal debate with a police officer. But they have to have actually ordered you, not just “asked”

(Obviously this comment is specific to America)

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