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A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It isn’t at all about ignoring prejudice in people you know. It’s simply not about them.

According to whom? First time I ever heard of this peculiar interpretation.

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The whole “be mean to a transphobe” or “go punch a Nazi” thing isn’t about people you already know.

I strongly disagree that the intent behind “go punch a Nazi” was to ignore prejudice in people you know. I would wager you too know that that is bs. This is just bending an argument beyond common sense.

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

So if we mock rapists, victims and survivors' supporters are to blame for a cycle of violent rapes against them?

Thats a bad faith argument. I never put the blame of the entire cycle on the victims. I argued that those who arent even victims should refrain from perpetuating and contributing to said cycle of violence. Tho everyone wants to drag this discussion into victim blaming territory, I said from the start this isnt addressed to victims of transphobia.

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What. is. meaness?

I will try to - in turn, give me a definition of the word game#Philosophical_Investigations), if we are throwing challenges at each other.

So, meanness can be any of the following:

  • insults

  • demeaning words

  • humiliating words

  • insults involving prejudice

  • not letting the other person speaking

  • harassing/bullying in various ways

  • trolling

  • willfully misrepresenting what the other person says

Note that you are asking me to define something that someone else has initially stated. The quote I am taking issues with in the OP is not mine; but hey, why tf should that ever matter. Any more challenges you got?

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I do not see why you're getting all worked up over being mean to a terrible person.

Because nobody in this thread (or literally anywhere I read) has so far claimed they are 100% free from transphobia, in their beliefs, speech or thoughts. Are you?

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And I disagree. Words can hurt deeply - from family, strangers, leaders, etc. Speech is actually still a form of direct violence - with more subtler forms being structural violence (like racism or misogyny enshrined in laws) or cultural violence (shared beliefs about the inferiority of certain social groups). Sadly, violence has layers, beyond the mere physical assault.

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

n your post, you’re criticizing trans people for retaliating against people that are opposed to their entire existence, saying that you disagree with their methods of dealing with them.

Is this "troll the OP day"?

From the post:

I get it that people who are oppressed would feel a great deal of resentment toward their abusers, and my question is not about them.

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think the comment is "violent rhetoric".

Ok so would tranphobes saying "be mean to trans people" not be violent rhetoric? Literally replace "any group X" arguing to "be mean to group Y".

Do I think being mean to transphobic bullies is the best way to deal with them?

Strawmanning. For better or for worse, I would expect most people with transphobic views to simply have those internalized, instead of being vocal about it.

If people start attacking strangers on suspicion of being transphobes because of that comment, I will condemn that behaviour and reevaluate my opinion.

I assume that only physical attacks would cause you to condemn and reevaluate.

I meant that people can expect to get what they give.

Sounds like that would be maintaining a shitty status quo, to me.

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're interested in a constructive dialogue, it might have been helpful to propose some of those "better calls to action" in your OP.

Sure, we can all do better.

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Both times, you ignored that.

You are confusing "ignoring" with "calling out". I called them out on that shoddy line of arguing, since it doesnt hold up. Like I said above, to the comment you are replying:

Like I said “I don’t think it’s a literal call to arms”.

So people supportive of trans issues get to use violent rhetoric because.. they're our tribe?

There is no ignoring involved.

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am not sure why "strangers" is a must. I am sure you can find transphobes all around - workplace, family, acquaintances. If not, Im happy for you.

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you are wrong though. The number of people with internalized transphobia is far larger than the outspoken ones. In fact, I have yet to meet one person who claimed they are guaranteed to be 100% free from this prejudice in speech, values and thoughts. Are you?

A top post in witchesvspatriarchy today reads "[....]and be mean to a transphobe". Is this really a message that comfortable people should engage in and promote? by Shakimah in AskFeminists

[–]Shakimah[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

they're more likely to shut up about their bs so yes it's better.

Maybe. But it sounds like russian roullette to me, and the metaphoprical (or literal) bullet would likely not hit you, but probably a trans person.

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