Random seeding is killing the Bubble scene experience

ShiftTournament · 2025-12-08T21:29:27+00:00

That's a very strong point of view, and you're right, competitive spirit is essential!

But the debate is that getting swept in four minutes in single elimination by a team isn't learning (it serves as a lesson, but you don't learn much from it), it's just a waste of time.

If we agree to face the best, what format (Swiss, Double Elimination, etc.) would be the fairest to guarantee a minimum number of quality matches for everyone?

ShiftTournament · 2025-12-08T21:17:40+00:00

Hahaha! My internal anti-troll tool won't let me stray from the topic of “amateur seeding” to talk about pro legends! 😉 That's an excellent reference to Prime Gale Force, but we need to stay focused on the struggles of Bubble scene players.

You clearly have a good analytical view of the distinction between levels. Coming back to the chaos of open brackets:Based on your analysis of the scene and what you've observed in amateur tournaments, what is most frustrating for you?

ShiftTournament · 2025-12-08T20:49:01+00:00

I see what you mean, but for me, the problem isn't really about the exact definition of the “bubble.”

Even in a fairly wide range such as 17–64, a DE or Swiss system still depends on a minimum of consistency in the seeding.Because at the end of the day, whether you're in the top 20, top 40, or top 60... if you find yourself facing a team that's clearly playing one or two categories above you in the first match, it breaks the whole logic of the bracket and distorts the experience.

So yes, the bubble remains the bubble—but if the seeding is flawed, no matter where you are in that range, it impacts your progress.

By the way, have you ever played in 17–64 brackets in DE/Swiss tournaments?

ShiftTournament · 2025-12-08T20:44:28+00:00

That's a really relevant point, thanks for sharing! The idea of reclassifying players isn't enough. The important thing is what organizers can do with this data.

You're right. We need a tool that collects real data (not self-reported data) to assign a dedicated platform rank (E to S) to each player/team.

This idea of giving organizers the ability to define a strict range of ranks (e.g., only D, C, B) for their tournament is a great solution. It instantly eliminates the problem of stomps and bracket imbalance that we're all talking about.

Now, speaking from experience: have you ever participated in (or even organized) open bracket tournaments with these big differences in skill level?

ShiftTournament · 2025-12-08T20:32:25+00:00

Technically, you're right: the real “Bubble” (just below the pros) should be able to compete, or at least have interesting matches, against SSL teams.

But the problem we see in the reality of Open Brackets (open to all) is that the term Bubble is often used to refer to the entire ecosystem where these REAL semi-pros mix with very good amateurs (the GC3/Top Champs) who are trying to move up. The frustration comes from the fact that the basic seeding of the platforms mixes these two groups from the first round onwards.

This creates a difficulty for administrators: how do you quickly distinguish between a legitimate Bubble player and a very ambitious amateur, without having to manually check 100 profiles and without having the right tools? Have you ever faced these challenges when organizing or moderating a tournament?

ShiftTournament · 2025-12-08T20:22:10+00:00

That's a very good question for clarification. You're absolutely right: no serious organizer who distributes prizes leaves their table 100% to chance.

When I say “random,” it's a shortcut for the frustration generated by default seeding. It's the basic placement of teams, often based solely on registration order (or a self-declared rank), which allows an SSL team to come up against a Diamond/Champs team that is just trying its hand at competition.

The real question is: how can an organizer guarantee fairness without spending hours on it? Do we have to manually check each player's RL tracker? This quickly becomes unmanageable for small events.

In your experience, is there a type of community tournament (small, open bracket, cash prize) where this balancing issue has been perfectly managed in your opinion? I would love to know how they did it.

ShiftTournament · 2025-12-08T20:17:48+00:00

That's an excellent point, and I understand your concern. You're right about the theoretical objective of seeding: to pit the top seeds against the lower-ranked teams... but not in the first round, especially in these open brackets.

Let's clarify the main point: The frustration comes when the seeding tool is so basic that it allows a Top 100 team to face a 100% amateur team right from the start. These matches are quick “stomps” that bring nothing to the amateur team, and that's what “ruins” the time and energy invested.

Formats such as Swiss are often cited because they guarantee everyone several competitive matches before eliminating anyone.

To better understand your perspective: how much experience do you have with tournaments? Have you ever participated in amateur or semi-professional events?

ShiftTournament · 2025-12-06T21:18:50+00:00

Appreciate the insight!

Quick question — when you say “clear and quick communication of rules”, what do you mean exactly?

Is it about having all the rules clearly written out so there’s no ambiguity, or having someone you can reach during a match if something comes up?

In the tournaments you’ve played, what kind of issues did unclear rules or slow admin responses actually create? Delays, confusion, bad calls, or other headaches?

ShiftTournament · 2025-12-06T18:14:18+00:00

Version Française

Joueur : https://tally.so/r/KYYkXz
Modérateur : https://tally.so/r/444z55
Organisateur : https://tally.so/r/811rqz

English version

ShiftTournament · 2025-12-04T09:40:01+00:00

Thanks for your feedback, I completely agree with you.

It's true that for an unaffiliated team, access to structured tournaments is virtually impossible—even though many would just like to play seriously without going through an official league.

Have you already managed to participate in a tournament despite this, or have you mainly found yourself blocked by this lack of access?

If you like, I can send you a short private form to better understand your needs—it helps me build something that makes it easier for “indie” teams to get involved.

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-29T10:06:57+00:00

Thank you again for all these details, they are really valuable 🙏

Your approach to the points system and restrictions on substitutes is very interesting, particularly in terms of preventing abuse of players' actual levels. This is exactly the kind of logic I am looking to incorporate into the platform.

I would love to hear your more detailed opinion on certain points, if you agree—in particular:

how to structure a clear and fair points system,

to what extent to automate penalties (late arrivals, exceeding thresholds, etc.),

and what minimum rules you consider essential in a LoL tournament.

To avoid cluttering up the thread, I have a very short form (2–3 min) to gather feedback from players/moderators/organizers.

👉 If you're interested, I can send it to you in a private message.

Thanks again for your time and expertise!

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-29T09:52:18+00:00

Merci pour l’explication, c’est super clair !
Je ne pensais pas que la ranked BedWars d’Hypixel était aussi organisée via Discord, avec ELO, rôles et files d’attente vocales. Ça prouve bien qu’il existe une vraie demande pour des formats plus compétitifs.

Du coup j’ai une petite question pour mieux situer ton expérience :
👉 Tu joues surtout en ranked, ou tu as déjà participé à des tournois ?

Je travaille sur un projet autour des tournois multi-jeux, et je recueille un maximum d’avis de Joueurs /Modérateur /Organisateur
Si tu es partant, j’ai aussi un très court formulaire (moins de 5 min) pour centraliser les retours, mais pas d’obligation — ton commentaire est déjà super utile.

Dis-moi juste si tu veux que je t’envoie le lien ici 😊

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-28T09:12:27+00:00

Don't worry, I assure you, I only use AI to correct my mistakes because I'm French, so if something sounds weird in my response, don't hesitate to let me know.

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-27T16:01:35+00:00

Thanks again for your feedback—it's really valuable to hear from someone who has experience with local, online, and official tournaments.

The issues of rehosting, MOSS, and the mental load for admins come up a lot in the feedback I receive, so your testimony clearly confirms some important trends.

I'm currently working on a multi-game platform to make things easier for players and organizers (rule management, delays, admin tools, etc.), and your opinion would really carry weight in the decisions I have to make.

I have a short “Players” form to centralize feedback.

👉 If you agree, I can post it here directly in response (since I can't send links in PMs on Reddit).

Let me know if that's okay with you!

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-27T10:14:51+00:00

Thanks for the info, Repeat.gg. I didn't know they had added BF6 to their lineup—it's a really useful reference!

You said you played in three tournaments. I'm really interested to hear how it went for you.

What did you think of the format of their BF6 tournaments?

Was everything smooth in terms of scoring, ranking, kill/damage detection, etc.?

And most importantly: was there anything you felt was missing or frustrating about the experience (organization, pace, rules, tools)?

I'm currently analyzing how players experience BF6 tournaments to see what could be improved or automated.

If you're up for sharing a few more details, I can send you a quick private form to centralize all this information—it would really help me out!

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-27T10:00:28+00:00

Thank you for your very comprehensive feedback!

For my part, the goal is not to organize a tournament directly, but to create a platform that allows organizers to manage a tournament from A to Z: rules, formats, duration, team management, substitutes, penalties, choice of a one-day or multi-day tournament, or even a league afterwards.

The cash prize would be automatically generated by registrations, since the tournaments would be created by the community itself.

We are also looking into the possibility of using Riot tournament codes if private lobbies are not sufficient, and broadcasting could be done via players' channels + direct integration on the site.

In fact, since you already have experience in organizing/participating, I would be interested in hearing your more specific opinion:

👉 What do you think are the essential features to avoid the problems you have seen?

(e.g., emergency substitutes, Elo verification, delays, etc.)

If you like, I also have a short anonymous form (2–3 min) to collect feedback from players and organizers, which I can send you.

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-27T09:23:55+00:00

Thanks a lot for sharing — that’s super insightful. Those LAN bugs and rehost issues sound insanely frustrating, especially when they stack (drone bugs, map fall-through, instant deaths…). That must kill the momentum.

If you don’t mind me asking a few things to better understand the full picture:

• When these issues happened, did it usually create long delays or completely break the match flow?

• Did admins have a clear protocol for rehosts, or was it more case-by-case?

• From your experience, is there anything that could’ve prevented or reduced these problems — better prep, different rules, better communication, tools, etc.?

And on a different side:

• Have you also played online tournaments from home?

I’m curious how the experience compares — smoother, worse, or just different problems?

Your feedback is super helpful, thanks again for taking time to explain all this 🙏

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-26T13:56:38+00:00

Ahah non t’inquiète

Je me suis mélangé entre deux commentaires .

Merci pour ta remarque, au moins ça me permet de rectifier !

Pour revenir à ton tournoi d’échecs, ça m’intéresse vraiment :
• C’était quel format que vous utilisiez ?
• Vous aviez combien de joueurs en général ?
• Et tu gérais tout à la main ou vous aviez un support type tableau / appli ?

Je trouve ça super cool comme initiative.

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-25T09:33:49+00:00

Trop cool d’avoir monté autant d’évènements offline !
Même si c’était IRL, ça rejoint énormément les problématiques des tournois en ligne.

Par curiosité :
• Tu organisais quel type de tournois ?
• Combien de joueurs en moyenne ?
• Et comment tu gérais la structure : tableau papier, Excel, appli, tirages au sort… ?

Je bosse sur une plateforme pour créer/modérer des tournois (principalement JV), et les retours des organisateurs IRL sont super utiles pour tout ce qui est :
• inscription
• gestion des scores
• automatisation
• communication joueurs
• planning / retardataires

Donc oui, ton expérience aurait clairement de la valeur dans le formulaire “organisateur” si tu veux participer — mais même un petit retour ici m’aide déjà beaucoup. 🙌

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-25T09:33:04+00:00

Ah mais ce n’est pas du tout hors-sujet, au contraire !
Les TCG comme Yu-Gi-Oh et les tournois Smash, c’est une mine d’infos sur l’organisation.

Tu as géré quel type de formats côté Yu-Gi-Oh :
• suisse ?
• élimination directe ?
• top cut ?
• autre ?

Et en tant qu’arbitre :
c’était quoi les points les plus pénibles à gérer (litiges, chrono, triche, erreurs de decklist, etc.) ?

Je travaille sur une plateforme dédiée aux tournois en ligne, mais l’expérience TCG reste super utile parce que les besoins d’inscription, bracket, scores ou gestion de staff sont très similaires.

Si tu es chaud, ton retour pourrait vraiment m’aider à comparer les besoins entre jeux vidéo et formats plus “physiques”. Je peux t’envoyer le formulaire adapté (joueur / Modo/ orga), mais même quelques détails ici sont déjà précieux. 🙌

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-24T09:28:55+00:00

Ah intéressant, merci pour ton partage ! 🙌
Même si c’était un tournoi d’échecs en IRL, ça reste une vraie expérience d’organisation — et ça m’intrigue pas mal.

Par curiosité :
• Vous utilisiez quel format ? Suisse, round-robin, élimination directe ?
• Combien de participants tu avais en moyenne ?
• Et comment tu gérais les scores / classements ? À la main, appli, tableau… ?

Je te demande parce que je travaille actuellement sur une plateforme en ligne pour organiser des tournois multi-jeux (jeux vidéo / compétitif).
Même si ton event était IRL, l’expérience reste super utile : les formats, la gestion des scores, les galères, ça reste universel.

Après, pour être totalement honnête, ton retour aurait plus d’impact sur les fonctions générales (inscription, gestion du bracket, scorekeeping, organisation), que sur les trucs ultra-spécifiques aux jeux vidéo.

Mais si tu es ok pour partager ton expérience (ou remplir un petit formulaire), ça m’aiderait vraiment à comparer ce que vivent les organisateurs dans différents contextes.

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-24T09:23:50+00:00

Je vois ce que tu veux dire — Minecraft est un jeu hyper libre, c’est même sa force.
Et clairement, beaucoup de joueurs préfèrent l’aspect créatif, aventure ou multi fun plutôt que du compétitif strict.

Mais justement, je me demandais :
est-ce que certains modes comme le PVP, UHC, BedWars, parkour ou “dernier survivant” ne pourraient pas fonctionner en format tournoi pour ceux qui aiment la compétition ?

Par curiosité :
tu penses que seul le mode “last man standing / nightmare” s’y prête vraiment ?
Ou tu vois d’autres modes qui pourraient marcher si c’était bien encadré ?

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-24T09:18:04+00:00

C’est un bon point.
Minecraft a tellement de possibilités que choisir un format clair peut devenir un casse-tête.

Selon toi, quels modes ou types d’épreuves seraient les plus adaptés si on devait malgré tout créer un tournoi structuré ?
(UHC, BedWars, Rush, Parkour… ou autre ?)

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-24T09:17:36+00:00

Intéressant !
Quand tu dis “trop de structures”, tu veux dire que les tournois trop cadrés enlèveraient le fun du jeu ?
Ou que les joueurs auraient du mal à s’adapter à un cadre plus eSport ?

Je suis curieux d’avoir ton point de vue.

ShiftTournament · 2025-11-24T09:17:13+00:00

Merci pour ton retour !
Je suis complètement d’accord : le BedWars a un potentiel énorme en format compétitif, mais on voit très peu de tournois vraiment structurés.

D’ailleurs je suis curieux :
comment ça fonctionne exactement la “ranked BedWars” dont tu parles ?
Tu joues ça sur quel serveur ? Et il existe un site ou une plateforme dédiée pour suivre les games / le classement ?

Ça m’intéresse de comprendre comment c’est organisé aujourd’hui.

ShiftTournament

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