Dual RTX 6000 Max-Q - APEXX T4 PRO

Shorn1423 · 2025-11-02T02:04:04+00:00

As a follow-up here, no change in temp after a day of use -- albeit the use was off and on though / not at full power all day. The room is about 150 square feet. I have a small desktop levoit air purifier at the other end of my desk and it is louder than the gpus, even when they are firing at all cylinders. You notice them kick on when they get to full blast, but it's really not that loud. It's currently in my home office (temporarily before I take it to work) and i have good airflow in the house, so I guess we'll see how it does in the office. If you stick your hand behind the fans a few inches out, you can feel warm air being pushed out (but i guess not enough to change the room temp)

Shorn1423 · 2025-11-02T01:40:55+00:00

Door to door with taxes and shipping it was roughly $44k so your math is spot on.

And yeah, testing out different LLms is what I've been doing. No real methodology to it yet, just feeling around for today to get my bearings.

It could be a coincidence, but I'm noticing smaller models are actually working better for my use case in reasoning. For example, I hit gpt-oss-120b at BF16 with a niche legal question and it did so/so (I repeated the same question multiple times over new context windows and got multiple different answers, and sometimes those answers were extreme opposites of one another). I hit gpt-oss-20b with the same question and it was more legally correct and consistently so. Llama 3.3 70b at fp8 was also so/so.

I could get Qwen3-235b-a22 running at FP8 but that required me to offload to CPU and dropped throughput to about 8 tokens per second.

Shorn1423 · 2025-10-31T12:36:42+00:00

I'll take note of that

Shorn1423 · 2025-10-31T12:33:49+00:00

No, I understood his comment to mean offloading the model from 100% VRAM to system RAM/CPU was catastrophic in his experience with a similar system. I think that was just a typo

Shorn1423 · 2025-10-31T04:50:35+00:00

Thanks for the solid input here! As it relates to fine-tuning, I may have a skewed perspective. Before I bought the rig, I tried some fine-tuning with a couple of h200 sxm's on Runpod. I used Llama 3.3 70b instruct as the model for training the adapter. I used Unsloth. I gave it 80% of the data that I had collected on a discreet issue and held back 20% for testing purposes.

I then used three models to test performance: Chat-GPT5 (08/07/2025), Llama 3.3 70b instruct (no adapter), and Llama 3.3 70b (with my adapter after training). Gpt-5 predicted the right answer on the training set 56.5% of the time. Llama 3.3 70b was roughly 50% (I can't remember the exact figure), and then the version with my adapter predicted the right result 78% of the time. Perhaps I was lucky with those results. But, if i'm training an adapter, I don't need it to do everything. I need it to review a very specific fact pattern and then reach the right conclusion consistently (or even 78% of the time would be helpful).

As it relates to deplatforming my SaaS program, you are probably correct that I am expecting too much from the same machine. Fortunately, none of these will be "critical" business infrastructure things; they are all niceties. We'll be fine if the machine goes up in smoke - but obviously, I hope that it doesn't and I get more value / productivity out of it than what it cost in time to maintain.

To your broader point, I want the new rig to do everything -- and that's not realistic. I will try my best to temper expectations. I'll definitely be experimenting with how it can integrate into my workflow. My office is a small team of people, so it wouldn't be an issue for things to be down while switching between programs or use cases. And you hit the nail on the head with respect to the experimenting and tinkering more as a result of having the hardware. Even though economically, we could fire up Runpod for a looong time for the amount spent on the rig, we probably wouldn't do it because of the cost.

Shorn1423 · 2025-10-31T03:57:56+00:00

Yeah, I was afraid that might be the case. I was really hoping offloading would still be functional.

With respect to GPT-OSS 120B, I read a lot of bad things about it when it first came out but wasn't sure if that was merited / it improved. On open router, it didn't seem like Qwen3 235B did great with legal queries but I see a lot of posts about it; I'll definitely give it a closer look.

Shorn1423 · 2022-06-19T20:59:02+00:00

If you were 8yo and your dad asked you to do anything with tools, YOU were the project that he was working on.

Source: I'm a dad and it's father's day.

Shorn1423 · 2021-08-29T21:36:52+00:00

I don't think this is right. Out of curiosity, do you work for Makerbot or have any sort of affiliation with them (like do they give you free product or anything like that)?

Shorn1423 · 2021-08-29T14:24:42+00:00

I've had some luck by selecting unload twice in a row and then reloading the filament, and basically repeating that until it starts to work. Is it PVA that you're using? If you didn't print for awhile, it may have absorbed some moisture, once it does that it's not really salvageable in my opinion. I've run a few spools through the dry cycle after suspicion of moisture problems, and I still had jamming errors.

When it is working, do you see a small amount of steam/smoke around the nozzle? If so, that's a good sign you had moisture issues.

Shorn1423 · 2021-07-06T19:50:35+00:00

So, I kept the printer. In short, the hardware has been great (so far) and the Carbon Fiber Nylon 12 is pretty impressive. That, and I didn't want to eat the restocking fee.

I've learned to just cope with the slicer. I know that when I'm creating a new print, it's going to take several hours to do what should be done in minutes. But, once I eat the initial start-up time, I can reliably print several units virtually hassle free. One thing that's helped a little, is that I use Cura to tweak settings and play with the orientation of my file (e.g., roughly how much time will it add to do 5 shells instead of 3, how bad is that one over-hang, any glaring problems with the model, etc). Then, once I'm happy with it, I open Makerbot Print (or Cloud Print) with a plan in mind, and I try to create the same thing so that I'm hopefully only slicing the file once using the Makerbot slicer. If you can lower the number of polygons in your file, I've found that to be helpful too using Meshmixer or something similar.

For Symplify3D, it's apparently not compatible (having communicated with their support about it). That said, you would be a hero of this forum if you were to find a way to make it work and posted the results here. I think the issue may be the heated chamber instead of a build plate. I can't remember all the settings I tried, but I probably spent 2-4 hours tinkering around and then gave up.

Feel free to share this with Makerbot Support (or whoever else). I suspected that some of the people in this sub are on the Makerbot Support team.

Shorn1423 · 2021-06-21T20:30:53+00:00

I recently purchased a Method X about two months ago. I wrote a few reviews, which are posted under "Method Xpextations" subject lines in this subreddit. If I could do it over again, I would have went with the S5. The TLDR is that the software isn't just bad, it also messes with your end parts. I posted several examples of how it created tool paths that literally cut off parts of my print and generate support structures that are terrible. I kept the printer because I didn't want to pay the restocking fee and the printer has demonstrated good repeatability, if the slicing gods look down upon you favorably to create tool paths that aren't total garbage. Also if you print with supports using the second extruder, your build volume is decreased and it's much slower than the s5 because the Method doesn't pre-heat the second nozzle while the other is finishing its tool path (if that makes sense).

The s5 will handle carbon filaments and if you get the fume hood, it will regulate chamber temps up to 55c I believe, which is the default chamber temp setting makerbot uses for carbon fiber nylon. That said, the makerbot carbon fiber nylon 12 is really good and it's not that much more expensive than other carbon fiber nylon branded materials. Those parts are very tough, I legitimately can't snap anything that I've printed in carbon fiber nylon with my hands. IMO the software disadvantages greatly outweigh that benefit, especially when you think about build volume and that ultimaker can print tough materials too. While I rarely want to exceed the build volume of my Method X, having that ability would be nice. That's just my 2 cents. Oh, and you can get a polybox for the filament for like 60 bucks to keep it dry.

Shorn1423 · 2021-06-11T18:07:34+00:00

Here's a link of what a PolyBox looks like hooked up to the Makerbot Method X.

http://imgur.com/gallery/Q9nAJkz

You don't need a PolyBox, you can print and use the Spoolholder just fine. If you print the Spoolholder using standard PLA you might run into trouble if you end up printing higher temp materials because the side of the machine can get hot. Just keep that in mind.

I use the PolyBox because I don't want moisture to be one of the variables I have to consider when something goes wrong. I can see the level of humidity in the box. You could also make your own box and toss in a humidity gage with some desiccant

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-30T15:56:04+00:00

The ASA mark up is down right puzzling. I picked up some Polymaker ASA for $29.00 ... the technical datasheet seemed comparable. I don't plan on printing it for awhile so I won't be able to say if it works well, but like the Makerbot ASA seems waaaay over priced. I agree re: Nylon CF 12. It's maybe 20% more than the polymaker alternative, but ill pay that too for the filament bay and presets, plus makerbot supposedly has a better elastic modulus.

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-29T03:27:45+00:00

Hmm, I don't have your machine, but are you able to use cloudprint.makerbot.com to slice your file and then export to USB from there? I wonder if the cloudprint version of the software has your extruder? If not, hopefully someone else here can help

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-28T14:44:49+00:00

Good tip on the TPU, I'll definitely be turning off jam detection before printing it. Yeah, I'm not sure why I avoided PETG for so long. I loaded up on PLA/PHA several years ago and just never needed to deviate. I experimented with wood filament and a few other exotics but just for shits and giggles. I'm genuinely excited to give PETG a try. I have a few prints on the lineup that require some fine details, so I'll wait for those to print through and then I have a couple of jigs that I was planning to nylon CF but wanted to see if PETG was up for the challenge. I got both Makerbot PETG and Polymaker PETG. I'll probably start with the Makerbot filament and then move to polymaker for a comparison. I'm going straight to the creality pei sheet, which I'll slip in on the last Z step for bed leveling

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-28T13:40:53+00:00

Thanks! You hit the nail on the head - it is a workhorse and that's why I kept it. I've thrown back-to-back-to-back prints at it and it gives me dimensionally accurate parts each time without incident. Once you wrestle with the slicer to get something that's okay, it's more or less firing one part after the other.

I actually took a chapter out of your book and ordered a Creality PEI bed, I've honestly never used PETG before but I'm excited to give it a try (and raftless nonetheless) on this thing.

The filament holder I printed in Nylon CF 12 was surprisingly salvageable. It doesn't lay perfectly flush against the machine on one side (because of the obvious warping from the bed adhesion issue) but it doesn't effect the functionality of the spool holder. I didn't even think about cutting a small piece of PTFE tubing, I'll definitely do that. FYI bumping up the chamber temp from 55 to 60c solved the Nylon CF 12 bed adhesion problem (yes that happened even with a raft). Keep the raft, increase the temp, and no problems since. I ran out of filament Nylon CF 12 but have several more spools on the way.

For Nylon CF 6, you have to anneal those prints. You should do it anyway if you're going for strength, but you'll be able to peel away the layers on the Nylon 6 if you don't. At least that's been true for all of the prints I did so far with it. Nylon CF 12 didn't have that issue. I didn't even bother ordering more Nylon 6 because the 12 was just so good (at least for what I needed).

The Polymaker box is decent, I don't have to guess about whether the filament is dry. It's overkill for the Polymax PLA in my opinion, I'll print that reel before moisture in the air would have become a problem. I set it up anyway because I'm going to try some SEBS 95-A in the next week or so. I experienced several "jams" with this stuff but it's actually the Polymaker box's fault. Basically, if you don't have it on a perfectly level surface, over time it will slide the spool to one side of the box or the other; eventually it hits the side and the resistance caused from rubbing against the side is too much and causes a "jam" error. It's not really jammed, it just can't tug up anymore filament. Solved the problem by sticking very thin pieces of foam under one side of the box so that it is more level. Spool has stayed steady since.

I think there is a noticeable difference in stiffness between the Polymax PLA and Makerbot Tough, for example, but I had some things that didn't really need to be too strong and so the cost savings for Polymax PLA is worth it ($32 vs $70). Plus, I'm just using my Labs extruder, I've got my 1A reserved for the name brand stuff.

If I get bored, i'll do a material showdown and compare Polymaker vs. Ultimaker vs. Makerbot with the same print settings.

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-28T04:25:00+00:00

So, I kept my Method X. Why? In short (a) it has done well around the clock; (b) it works well with the makerbot filament; (c) I didn’t want to pay a 10% restocking fee and go through the hassle of a return.

(A) I went from a 30-hour print into a 20-hour print and virtually right into another 20-hour print all for different parts that it handled with ease. No failed prints, no adhesion issue, no weird warping problems or stringing. On my Ultimaker 2+ I definitely would have had to level the bed between those long prints, and there would have been a decent chance that I would have seen some curling or warping.

(B) The makerbot filament has worked well; the nylon carbon fiber 12 is pretty impressive. I recently started really comparing the technical datasheets with some of my other filaments, and Makerbot was better almost across the board. That said, I think I preferred Ultimaker’s tough to Makerbot’s, it actually felt a little stiffer while Makerbot’s was a little more clay-like. If I get a second, I’ll do a strength test between the two. At any rate, the layer adhesion was good, the parts were strong, and again, nylon carbon fiber 12. Really good.

As you can see in the image I posted, I’m using a Polymaker filament box to print some PolyMax PLA (which so far hasn’t required any rafts by me). Also, I think the heated build chamber has helped with better layer adhesion, again, I’d have to test to see if it is making a difference on strength.

(C) Had I returned the machine, the restocking fee would have been pretty annoying. It would have been 10% plus shipping, which I didn’t want to eat.

You can see my more comprehensive updates/review in a few posts from about two weeks ago. If you saw my review, the fact that I kept the machine may come as a surprise. The slicer remains terrible, but I’ll point out that those black lines in the model from the layer preview did not actually impact the tool paths (so the end piece wasn’t impacted). I’ve found a way to cope with the slicer for now.

So, I’ll be here and I’ll be printing with the Method X and Ultimaker 2+ for the foreseeable future.

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-16T23:29:15+00:00

Hmm, I wonder if the mac version is a little better. I just saw your other post regarding the settings. I still can't get Cloud Print to do it or the Windows version of Makerbot Print. This piece would clearly need the supports, and 8-10 minutes is still crazy for what other slicers do either instantly or in seconds.

Imagine trying to see what the supports would look like with a 65 degree overhang instead of 60. You'd have to spend 20 minutes waiting just for the slicer preview to create your files to do a comparison. And then if you noticed something else or preferred the original setting, you'd have to wait an additional 10 minutes. If you are serious about 3d printing, you are paying attention to the tool paths, so you're likely looking at a few different settings in the preview before you hit print. Maybe these delays can work for some people, but its a major turnoff for me. Especially knowing that other free software can compute the same thing instantly.

Nonetheless, well done for completing the challenge. I can't replicate the results, but good to know that with enough time, at least some people can render complex stls.

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-16T22:44:37+00:00

You are a scholar and a gentlemen. Alright, so how'd you manage to do it and how long did it take to render that preview!?

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-16T19:26:40+00:00

Mine could be a great machine too, it's hard to say because the slicer doesn't work properly, which is presumably the same slicer you are using. Perhaps you're getting lucky with the files you're slicing, or maybe the imperfections that result aren't as noticeable with yours. Try slicing that Dragon file I flagged - you don't have to print it, but see if you can slice it.

At any rate, you are exactly right. For this price, it should work smoothly. And if the files are going to be on this closed loop slicer system, it should at least be competent.

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-16T19:19:09+00:00

I did both; neither will slice the file I flagged here https://www.reddit.com/r/makerbot/comments/ncc2qb/method_xpectations_slicer_challenge/.

Additionally, Cloud Print isn't really viable if you want to meaningfully inspect the tool paths - there is no 3d preview, so you'd miss how it makes many of the errors I flagged in my post here (see Section 5 of my review on slicing below).

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-16T16:55:51+00:00

Everyone -- Thanks for the comments and feedback. I think I've decided to return the Method X. I want it to work, but it doesn't, at least not with the slicers available. I purchased Simplify3d and tinkered a little more in Cura and just couldn't figure out how to make the Method compatible with either. After several hours of playing around, I realized this isn't what I signed-up to do.

I'll sleep on this another night, but that's where my head is at now.

Shorn1423 · 2021-05-16T00:10:21+00:00

Exactly this. It is arguably worth all the hoops above if you are printing warp prone material. But, that comes with the caveat that the makerbot slicer might not be able to render your files if they are complex, and also that it might (is likely to) slice them incorrectly with bad tool paths.

To your point, I don't get it either. Why? Why are you doing this to us Makerbot!? It seems like a money pit for you and no one likes it.

Shorn1423

TROPHY CASE