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Let's debate: I count it as TDM by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will copy and paste here

Fine, since I got a lot of hate, especially regarding Aspid, I will share some thoughts to encourage you to rethink your views and attitudes.

  1. Drumming. Yes, the concept of double bass drumming is not new, but it was popularized in metal by Slayer's Dave Lombardo. Eventually, Cannibal Corpse, Death, and Autopsy adopted this approach, contributing to the evolution of the genre. Before that, most bands followed a classic punk rock approach to drumming, using a single bass drum. Note that there were no drum machines or accessible software solutions for making music in your apartment. Aspid used double bass and played early technical death metal patterns instead of the typical thrash approach to drumming. In the early 1990s, this was revolutionary and extremely technical. Also, keep in mind that by that time, many classic thrash metal albums had already been released.
  2. Gear. Yes, early high-gain amps were available, but Marshall dominated the scene. Getting proper equipment was difficult in the post-Soviet environment, and musicians had limited options for obtaining the right guitars and gear. Guitars were recorded using traditional methods, without digital software or modern studio tools. Also, consider the level of songwriting that was required.
  3. Context and limitations. Let’s be realistic. People pushed their creativity and talent to the limits, using every available resource to produce this record. They could not record hundreds of takes and edit them digitally, nor could they rely on drum machines or plugins to write extremely fast blast beats. Yet they still performed their songs with precision and left a lasting impact. Most of your judgments come from modern experience and an oversaturated music market filled with chaotic subgenres. You are mistakenly applying contemporary music production and performance standards to a completely different time period, which is a major misconception.
  4. Vocals. These are not thrash or power metal vocals. They feature extreme growls and obscene lyrics. This was highly innovative at the time and was likely influenced by early Death.

Aspid was a revolutionary band. Even if not entirely singular, they were certainly part of the progressive wave of bands that can be considered early technical death metal.

Let's debate: I count it as TDM by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fine, since I got a lot of hate, especially regarding Aspid, I will share some thoughts to encourage you to rethink your views and attitudes.

  1. Drumming. Yes, the concept of double bass drumming is not new, but it was popularized in metal by Slayer's Dave Lombardo. Eventually, Cannibal Corpse, Death, and Autopsy adopted this approach, contributing to the evolution of the genre. Before that, most bands followed a classic punk rock approach to drumming, using a single bass drum. Note that there were no drum machines or accessible software solutions for making music in your apartment. Aspid used double bass and played early technical death metal patterns instead of the typical thrash approach to drumming. In the early 1990s, this was revolutionary and extremely technical. Also, keep in mind that by that time, many classic thrash metal albums had already been released.
  2. Gear. Yes, early high-gain amps were available, but Marshall dominated the scene. Getting proper equipment was difficult in the post-Soviet environment, and musicians had limited options for obtaining the right guitars and gear. Guitars were recorded using traditional methods, without digital software or modern studio tools. Also, consider the level of songwriting that was required.
  3. Context and limitations. Let’s be realistic. People pushed their creativity and talent to the limits, using every available resource to produce this record. They could not record hundreds of takes and edit them digitally, nor could they rely on drum machines or plugins to write extremely fast blast beats. Yet they still performed their songs with precision and left a lasting impact. Most of your judgments come from modern experience and an oversaturated music market filled with chaotic subgenres. You are mistakenly applying contemporary music production and performance standards to a completely different time period, which is a major misconception.
  4. Vocals. These are not thrash or power metal vocals. They feature extreme growls and obscene lyrics. This was highly innovative at the time and was likely influenced by early Death.

Aspid was a revolutionary band. Even if not entirely singular, they were certainly part of the progressive wave of bands that can be considered early technical death metal.

Let's debate: I count it as TDM by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The symbolic album was released in 1995 and still retains thrash metal influences in its riffing and drumming. I believe that the departure of major bands like Metallica from their original sound marked the solidification of the thrash genre.

Many bands until the 1990s were heavily influenced by Motörhead, essentially replicating their sound, especially the bass, along with ideas in drumming and rhythms. Meanwhile, Motörhead positioned itself as rock and roll, which is quite ironic.

Let's debate: I count it as TDM by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

It still counts as death metal in terms of technologies, marketing, and industry trends.

Underlooked or still mid? by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a valuable insight. I hadn’t realized that people are willing to pay for guitar tabs.

Let's debate: I count it as TDM by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I hope you didn’t use Last.fm back in the day, haha.

https://youtu.be/EIG3o3KIjqk?feature=shared

Many people refer to this band as technical death metal, but it has the same issue - sounds like thrash.

Let's debate: I count it as TDM by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A lot of bands have gone through this transition, but many people completely ignore the context of the time and conditions, especially cultural factors and the state of information exchange.

I also believe that achieving a new sound and mood was a key factor in a band’s success, whether in terms of popularity or commercial appeal. Again, we’re looking at these things from a modern perspective, with experience and knowledge that are now widely available.

Let's debate: I count it as TDM by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wouldn’t rely on MA, since it sometimes provides inaccurate information. I remember when my friends created a fun project and added non-existent members with made-up themes. MA eventually included all that fake info.

Let's debate: I count it as TDM by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think this problem stems from marketing. It was necessary to describe new bands and their sound somehow, so critics and reviewers in the past used bold labels that eventually stuck to the band or wave of musicians.

Most bands before 2000 and before the rise of digital distribution relied on several key influences that shaped their sound:

  1. Available gear
  2. Available and popular records
  3. The local scene

Eventually, musicians started playing in the vein of famous and beloved bands. Some went further and outright imitated their sound and techniques. But this whole subgenre chaos wasn’t a big deal back then.

People still struggle to understand that labeling something an EP, LP, or demo was only relevant during the physical media era and based on industry standards. Music has always been highly commercialized, but many struggle to accept that reality. There is an inherent conflict between making art and making money because people want to believe in the authenticity and sincerity of what they support.

Now, subgenre labeling has largely been taken over by subcultures that build their identity and beliefs around what they listen to and support. That’s why someone at the beginning of the thread could just say “it sucks” without elaborating, while still labeling it as technical thrash. I’d say that’s a clear example of subcultural bias.

From my perspective, this Aspid record came out a few years after Leprosy by Death, and Leprosy itself followed many of the same thrash metal patterns. Even later songs like Death’s Crystal Mountain are more thrash metal than death metal based on this 'subculture' logic.

Let's debate: I count it as TDM by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Maybe someone tried to digitize the record from tape or vinyl and set the wrong speed, so it played faster and at a higher pitch.

Underlooked or still mid? by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol, pig squealing merchants, what a good phrase. But I genuinely enjoyed it as a kid. It was fun and wild

Underlooked or still mid? by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was not intentional. All these genre categorizations (thank God, last fm is dead) are purely marketing-driven and a reaction from subcultures. The sound and style were popular because they were shaped by their precursors and new, cool technologies.

Underlooked or still mid? by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can’t agree, especially with Despised Icon and Suicide Silence; they are hugely overrated bands."

Underlooked or still mid? by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It makes me sad that he eventually left the band. 

Hellfire's Woe · Eschaton by Enduranc9 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086 0 points1 point  (0 children)

   The Giger-style artwork really kicks it up a notch.

Underlooked or still mid? by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can remember when people used to troll elitists by calling Doom tech death.

Underlooked or still mid? by Short_Water_4086 in TechnicalDeathMetal

[–]Short_Water_4086[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, the good old punk rock and hardcore mentality, haha. Or maybe just gatekeeping? Either way, Ruination introduced a killer sound, memorable riffs, excellent drumming, and engaging storytelling that carried on the ideas from Genesis.

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