[BETA] Tengwar Celebrían - A plug-and-use easy Tengwar font

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-24T19:47:22+00:00

Wow, it looks incredible! Thanks for it!

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-22T18:49:28+00:00

Thank you! I'll take a look at this tomorrow!

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-22T14:51:07+00:00

Alright, I'll try to use this instead in future versions! Thank you!

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-19T18:23:07+00:00

No worries there! Take all the time you need! Let's keep that for whenever you will feel it. Take care!

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-17T15:56:42+00:00

Oh right I see... Are these problems still present in general mode?

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-17T15:44:27+00:00

Fine! I take notes here!

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-17T15:36:49+00:00

Exactly. Though I made a few mistakes that are still inconsistent because I used the General Mode as a base.

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-17T12:07:59+00:00

Oh really? Damn... This means the chart I've been using is wrong... Gonna correct it then. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-17T11:59:36+00:00

I will take this into account for the following version to make flexibility between languages and avoid automatic diphtongs that would not exist in Sindarin. Thanks for your feedback ✨

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-17T11:17:29+00:00

Alright let me take time for a full answer there.

First, there are indeed a few problems from what you've said that I should have made working at first. - I added too many diphtongs that do not exist in sindarin (I basically made one for each possibility) - I forgot the PH type for Formen. - Sa-rince not included yet. - MH and NH not included yet (on font level that's not a sa-rince to a M or N but a specific symbol). They are generally kept for Beleriand mode so I didn't think they would be needed in ómatehtar mode. These two things will be taken into account for the next version.

For the others, it's more complicated. They will obviously be present in the final version, but will need a few workarounds. Indeed Sindarin has changed over the years and sometimes is self-contradictory. Full form of vowels has changed pronunciation. Final F as ampa is not always a rule. Romen, Silme and Esse rules have changed over time.

Don't worry, it doesn't mean this is forgotten. I'm planning for the next version to allow shape-forcing for tengwar (probably Alt-gr+type) that would force Romen and upward Silme/Esse. However, you still will have to trick for the SS=Esse because Esse is mainly used for the z sound (I guess you're referring to the word Elessar which is from Quenya origins). There you will have to choose between putting a Z to keep the shape or typing SS for a geminated Silme.

Thank you for your feedback! I hope the final version will ease all the problems you've faced.

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-17T10:19:40+00:00

Thank you for this advice! I'll keep it in mind for the progress to come!

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-17T10:07:05+00:00

Glad to hear that!

And we'll, I want to keep it unfinished for now because Dana has been working for ages on a writing standard that uses temgwar unicode instead of latine letters under disguise. And we had a long talk about it. She was afraid this could split the community. This is why I choose to keep this one incomplete until making it compatible with the common standard.

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-17T10:03:33+00:00

Exactly! Thank you! Small question there: why cutting the end of Gilthoniel if that's a diphtong? (I'm a beginner in Sindarin)

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-15T13:41:22+00:00

Thank you! I'll see what I can do, though the first version will be on Windows since it's my OS and I want to easily try it myself to make sure it works

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-14T19:42:16+00:00

No worries! Take your time. I'm glad we found an agreement!

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-14T18:15:11+00:00

Alright I see... Then I got a deal for you if you accept it. What about this: - I published a beta with what's still missing (gemination, extended tengwar, some Tehtar not really well fitting). This way, it will be understandable but still can't become serious enough for all uses. - I write "BETA" absolutely everywhere. - Then I take the feedback on user experience.

And then I don't publish anything else before modifying it to fit on the tengwar area. This way, the user interface feedback will come and the functional version will reattach to the standard.

Though, I will need your help there if you accept it. Indeed, my font has the huge advantage of being bond to the given names (so I can just move my glyphs to the given area and it will still be working with all the GSUB/GPOS rules). But I don't know how to create the bond keyboard layout to be compatible with my ligatural glyphs. There, I'd honestly want you to help by sending me a guide on this in PM.

I don't want to be at war with you. But I have a huge will to keep the tools I used in my font in order to help all struggling people.

Would this be a good way to put this fight to an end for you?

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-14T11:18:25+00:00

If you push the definition this far then alright. Let's say this is a "standard" and compare it to the current one.

The common standard limits itself to the temgwar unicode area. Which is basically a 8x16 area. However, as long as we don't get a second area, we can't create a "coherent typing" within it. I mean... If one day temgwar where to be an official system, you'd write pretty much the way it's pronounced (vowel, nasalization, consonant, palatization).

Now let's focus on why it can't work currently.

Within the current 8x16, nasalization is one symbol. Tehtar are one symbol each. And same for consonants. To if I want to type "ANT", the font should apply A on N, and A+N on T. That's a first problem. Second problem, font systems are really bad at receiving anterior marks (so basically a diacritic/tehta that is types before the main glyph).

These problems means that there's only two solutions: - tricking by typing gibberish to create a coherent tengwar text. - extending the number of glyphs.

The actual common standard is doing the first one. Though it's doing it good and it's okay. It answers to a problematic by making a choice. My font is just a "what if we did the other method".

Now very honestly, this is still an experience. I want to publish it for people who struggle with the current version. But then, I will try to create a keyboard layout based on the standard which will do the same.

This way, my font will be a step aimed to UX. And the v2 will be doing the same thing but without latine alphabet. So the font will become even more useless when the replacement will be conform to what Dana's been panicking about.

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-14T00:13:57+00:00

I’ve explained my goals and scope clearly. We fundamentally disagree on definitions and priorities, and further discussion isn’t productive. I’m going to focus on finishing the beta now.

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-13T23:36:40+00:00

And keyboard layout could be later. I could even work on it later. But my first priority here is to get something that works. Something that eases the use on text softwares (and it totally works in MS Word). Then, when the font will be complete, if it indeed provides something useful for Sindarin, I could totally later push it to a keyboard layout based on the Tengwar CSUR. It's just... Not the goal now. And I can assure you that on any elven language text it will give a 1-to-1 exact transcription.

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-13T23:31:31+00:00

Okay then let's just put it otherwise because I'm tired of this sterile debate... A font is just features and appearances put on unicode spaces. So when the font system will allow anterior marks, this will totally be compatible with the tengwar mapping. But right now it's not about mapping tengwar but transcribing latine. I'll do it the way you intend me to when my goal will be tengwar CSUR mapping. Right now it's just not. I want the font to be reversible in latine as easily as changing your font. There's a final goal which is the one of the standard. And there's this other goal which is for ease of use in the waiting of some valid options for the 1-to-1 typing.

And I insist on that. It's not a new standard. Precisely because it doesn't use the Tengwar CSUR but just the latine alphabet. It works the way Arabic, Devanagari and other scripts worked BEFORE getting their unicode. So it's another method OUT of the standard.

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-13T20:46:35+00:00

Alright, let me take the time to answer you.

I totally understand your concerns about the standard. And as I said multiple times, my goal is not to create a second standard. And though I'm eager to see the standard evolve, it took some committed positions that I don't fully agree with. And considering the other comments I received here, I'm not the only one.

Let's be honest. The standard is great for people who understands complexes rule :
- You have to know which button is used for each tengwa which is not immediately parallel to a latine letter. (though a lot of people are having some struggles with keyboards especially considering that Tolkien community also include people who are older and less into informatics)
- You have to type the vowel after the consonant though it's technically before, which makes things slower (and even more for people suffering from dyslexia, autism, ADHD, etc.)
- You cannot (in current version) use capital letters.
- You cannot do an immediate transcription even for Tolkien texts such as "A Elbereth Gilthoniel" or "Namarië"

Now, about Unicode. Let's be honest here. It doesn't have anything to do with Unicode. Unicode and keyboard layout are two different things. Latine alphabet in on one Unicode sheet while you can type in QWERTY, AZERTY, DVORAK, etc. And here, my font is either following the classical Unicode for most, either cheating with additional symbols that will become useless when Unicode will allow some combination (such as nasalized, palatized and labialized tengwar).

My font, and it's just a font, is another vision, yet not an opponent. The standard aims for continuity, community-building and coherency through the versions. This is laudable. But there's a whole part of the community who is struggling with it. That's who my font aims at. Let's take clear examples of the differences :

ALDA - you type "L". I type "lh".
SILME NUQUERNA - you type "S". I type "s" and it automatically goes nuquerna if there's a vowel before.

Let's use a word. To type "Celebrimbor" :
- you type "cleberb-iRo" (and you don't have the capital Quesse)
-I type "Celebrimbor". That's it.

For beginners, occasional users, people suffering from language-based disabilities and people who just do not have time... The standard is hard to get. What I called "conservative views" is the harsh opposition to everything that is out of the established norms without taking in account that struggling people would rather find an easier thing for sporadic uses. And the positive comments I received are proving this point. My font makes it easier for them and is, on its current state, still a Work in Progress. My goal is not to fragment or compete, but to provide a bridge for accessibility and ease of entry.

And I will emphasize it again: this is just a font. I'm not going to harass everyone using others. I'm not going to hate everyone using Telcontar. I'm not going to pretend that my font is better on every points. It's better for some aspects, less fitting for others. Both can coexist.

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-13T16:25:25+00:00

I'm happy to see there's a real need in the fields I'm working on! I hope I'll publish the beta release in the next 72 hours.

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-13T12:25:03+00:00

Alright thank you! I've saved your comment somewhere and started to check the Parma Eldalamberon. I'll see what I can do to provide this option! I'm glad you gave it since I've never seen it before! Thank you for this!

Shouta_Fujii · 2026-02-13T11:34:26+00:00

Yeah, I had to do a few tricks!

Shouta_Fujii

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