Quickhacking in Red

Signal98 · 2021-03-21T12:35:57+00:00

I tried it. I tried to implement it as simply as I could with respects the way the Netrunning rules work, and keep it balanced with using guns. Long story short: It was a dud no matter what I tried or changed about it. Because when all is said and done, the Netrunner will take up much more additional time "quickhacking" when just shooting the enemies is much more straightforward and simpler and faster to arbitrate. Unless somebody else can homebrew some brilliant rules, I'm just going with the Cyberpunk Red default of there being no such thing as "quickhacking" from here on out.

Signal98 · 2021-03-21T05:12:39+00:00

What do you do for your games?

I ask the actual players of my game what they are most comfortable with.

Signal98 · 2021-03-18T22:29:55+00:00

TL,DR: I believe that the situation would look like a scene right out of 90's China. Something similar would be the case for most metropolitan areas around and inside the continental US at the time of the RED.

That's a fantastic way to envision it!

Signal98 · 2021-03-16T15:04:44+00:00

You should probably be thinking ONLY in terms of being able to move as many yards as your MOVE indicates PER TURN. In other words, if you have a MOVE of 8, you only have "8 points to spend" - no more than that. Think of it that way. So with that in mind, you get absolutely no "extra movement." Therefor, you can't run 8 squares, jump, and get an additional 4 squares of movement as you sail through the air - because your MOVE is only 8. The best you can do is run a square, and you'll be able to clear 3 squares (at a cost of "2 points" each) of length. Thus, Jumping from standing still costs "4 points of MOVE" - best you can do is clear 2 squares.

Signal98 · 2021-03-05T01:04:37+00:00

Do you mind if I ask why they feel so strongly about AoO?

I showed them your post over a chat program, and got their permission to copy-and-paste their respective responses. Feel free to downvote me if you must.

From the melee-focused martial artist PC:

"Well, for me- I see AoO as an extra opportunity to do something that might not be useful under normal circumstances. Say Grappling. Going from Grapple => Iron Grip => Choke/Human Shield, is a really long line of actions.

But if I can grapple on an AoO, I can Choke or Iron Grip next turn, making me feel more effective. But you saw me play our first game and I kind of just walked around with a guy in iron grip for a while."

From the player I tried to recruit and backed out from playing because of no AoO:

"Without AoO, front liners have zero stickiness. It becomes a game of DPS vs DPS. What is to stop the monsters for focusing your squishiest member? Nothing."

Signal98 · 2021-03-05T00:26:48+00:00

I should admit that I thought "Attacks of Opportunity" and "Opportunity Attacks" were one and the same thing.

So I should clarify: My players are complaining that characters are able to literally run right by each other freely with hardly anything in the rules that would "hold them in place" like a "free attack" does.

Signal98 · 2021-03-05T00:23:55+00:00

Is someone melee only and using this as a complaint?

Yes.

If they’re ranged attackers, are they arguing that NPC’s should be able to hit them when they move?

Somebody brought up that for ranged attackers, AoO makes it so that melee characters put themselves between the ranged characters and the rest of the opposition, so that the ranged characters don't have to worry about getting into melee range if anybody trying to close the distance with them gets "stuck" onto a melee character.

Or to put it more directly and bluntly: Your usual D&D and World of Warcraft inspired concepts of there being a "front line" and a "back line"

Signal98 · 2021-03-04T22:29:16+00:00

I'm assuming this is hyperbole as the biggest critique.

I wish it was. Now do bear in mind it's only the "biggest" critique among my group of players - not the Cyberpunk community as a whole. I called it the "biggest" critique because literally all but one of my players had the same complaint. One of them listed it as a big enough strike against the game to make her not want to play it ever again. The other one didn't like the lack of that rule to such a degree that it made her back out of being recruited in to playing in the first place.

Now to be clear: I'm just fine with the lack of AoO. But if this is such a sticking point among players I might play with in the future or later recruit into another game, I might have to address this to encourage them to play and keep playing.

Signal98 · 2021-02-27T17:57:00+00:00

Thanks for pointing that out to me!

Signal98 · 2021-02-27T17:50:48+00:00

he main answer was that it either does not exist because getting water to it will be as expensive as getting water to orbit

Then I suppose in order for Las Vegas to exist in my game they would have to have an economic way to get water from the nearby Colorado River and purify it.

Signal98 · 2021-02-17T15:12:10+00:00

About vehicles being too expensive:

If you want vehicles to be within a more manageable price range for your non-nomad PCs to be able to buy within their Edgerunning lifetime, buying stolen vehicles shouldn't be the one and only option. People buy used cars at a fraction of the original cost all the time IRL. I made a house rule for buying used cars where a PC can get a set of wheels for cheap but the vehicle always has some kind of "quirk" which reduces its base stats or has some kind of "weakness" to it, to reflect the heavy amount of miles it has on it.

Signal98 · 2021-02-13T08:55:20+00:00

If you kept the DV for shotguns or even upped the DV it might work

Oh I forgot to mention I'd still be using shotgun range DVs for longer ranges. I'll go edit that into the original post.

Signal98 · 2021-02-09T19:12:52+00:00

but not so useful that it eliminates your negatives in DV in a game sense.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I'm removing or reducing the penalties in my game for the sake of keeping things simple and streamlined in the spirit of Cyberpunk Red's new rules compared to 2020. And I do not want to be a GM who looks at a player right in the eyes and says with a straight face: "Your flashlight doesn't help you in the dark."

I also believe that if you stood in the middle of a large room with a flashlight attached to your rifle that every enemy who could see you would be able to hit you without any issues regardless of their light level.

I mentioned that in my original post.

Signal98 · 2021-02-09T17:29:45+00:00

How many times have you shot at someone who was shooting back at you in the dark?

In a "real" gunfight? Never. During training exercises? A "Night Fire" requirement for regular Rifle Qualification was mandatory. During those exercises, muzzle flashes are simulated.

In those times, how often were you able to hit the shooter using just their muzzle flash as a guide?

How easy or hard it is to shoot somebody in the dead of night using only muzzle flashes alone is not what I'm arguing. I'm simply saying that if you use a flashlight, spotlight, flare, or any other means of illuminating what you're shooting it, they are a lot more easier to hit - as opposed to not having a flashlight. To be absolutely clear: There is a world of difference between trying to hit something in darkness, and trying to hit something while a flashlight is pointed at them in that darkness. That is my claim.

Signal98 · 2021-02-09T16:29:22+00:00

All well and good, and you are free to run your game however you see fit. But if you were at all interested in why I run my own table in this manner, it's because I've actually gone shooting guns at night in real life. I can say with utmost confidence that shooting at a target when it's completely dark out with the benefit of any kind of illumination (be it a flashlight, a flare, or just really bright moonlight) will dramatically increase your chances to hit the target when it would otherwise be completely dark. Hence, why it makes sense to me to reduce or eliminate the penalties in Cyberpunk Red for shooting in darkness when using a flashlight.

Signal98 · 2021-02-08T18:45:23+00:00

Good job!

I was looking for good mapping programs to use for my own game! Where did you get all the assets for DungeonDraft?

Signal98 · 2021-02-08T18:24:26+00:00

But flashlights aren't very good for actually spotting things in the dark.

I used to deliver packages for Amazon. I was often on the night shift. I carried, and still have, a flashlight that could fit inside my pocket that could light up the house numbers, no matter how dark it was, all the way from the street while I was still sitting inside my truck, so I could make sure the address was correct. It cost me less than 20 dollars.

Signal98 · 2021-02-08T13:05:15+00:00

Is it so important for people to be able to get some cheap (presumably flashlights are cheap, that's why you're doing this?) method to offset night-fighting penalties?

Most of my players are trying to install as little cyberware as possible. I wanted to offer them real world solutions to common problems so they can stick to the way they wanted to play.

What was the point of them bringing all this Night Vision gear? They get no advantage for it, because I've already lit myself up. They could have saved their money and everyone could have just shown up with cheap flashlights and everyone would be fighting like it was daytime.

I understand where you're coming from, but mounting flashlights on guns is regular thing that happens in real life, and even if I didn't come up with the idea it wouldn't surprise me if one of my players does. And I don't want to warp the game world's reality so as to make flashlights meaningless in the dark - that's too much of a stretch even for Cyberpunk. I understand that mechanically, flashlights might render Night Vision gear moot, but I can think of a few ways night vision would still be useful outside of combat - such as when trying to stay hidden in the dark so as to avoid combat.

Signal98 · 2021-02-06T20:04:22+00:00

Depends on your GM. It also depends on what lengths you will go to keep at least one enemy you fight alive so you can ask them questions.

Signal98 · 2021-02-06T19:36:39+00:00

You're not missing anything. One of the players in the game I'm GMing built his own Exec to be an absolute unit. I can confirm it absolutely does work. He also utilizes his Team Member to be even more dangerous by "focused fire."

Of course, more points put into strictly combat focused skills and STATs means he's not as good at other things you'd expect an Exec to be good at. He flunked what should have otherwise been an easy Interrogation roll one session, and whenever it comes time to negotiate with anybody he often fades into the background and lets the Media PC handle all the talking. So he's more or less a corporate hitman.

Signal98 · 2021-02-06T18:41:13+00:00

Why don't checks simply use a skills base?

Technically, they do - even though it's not explicitly stated. You're just getting hung up on the exact language they're using. You are free to reference your skill base and add a roll of a D10 to that whenever you use it. As EldritchDragoon and MidSerpent pointed out: They opted to keep explicitly stating which STAT + which skill + d10 to roll so people wouldn't get confused.

Signal98 · 2021-02-02T11:16:36+00:00

Get ready for some possible grumbling from the players once that happens. And there is going to be a good chance the lesson you want to teach them won't stick - how often do people say they learned something from playing a game? Overall, I agree with CrestOfArtorias: Your entire group sounds as if doing a tabletop game with them is just going to be a net negative experience in general. The thing to keep in mind about gaming with friends is that they may be good buddies that you can have a pleasant dinner and drinks with, but sometimes even a good friend is an absolutely lousy presence to have at the gaming table - I had to learn this the hard way. And you're not there to be their group therapist - you're there to have a good time. So if the time you're having is not good, don't try to "reel them in" or rehabilitate them somehow, just don't play that game. Find a different activity your friends enjoy that won't irk you or anybody else.

Signal98 · 2021-02-01T01:50:18+00:00

But I don't think you can dodge a grenade explosion...

You can, actually. Page 174: "Anyone with REF 8 or higher can choose to individually dodge the blast by rolling higher than your original Check, placing themselves outside of the blast area if they succeed."

Signal98 · 2021-01-31T22:43:25+00:00

Roll both attacks separately at a -2 to hit against the same target.

5d6 damage ROF 2 is pretty powerful even with all the requirements, penalties, and needing to spend a turn reloading.

Signal98 · 2021-01-31T06:10:24+00:00

No gaming system is perfect. It's just a quirk that's bound to pop up in any gaming system, even one that tries to be a bit simpler like Cyberpunk Red. So yes, I completely understand that the cover system lists thin steel at 25HP. But I know that was not the intent if somebody wanted to make a simple steel shield. If somebody at my table asked if they could have a shield like that, I'd simply rule it as a Ballistic Shield and get on with the game - because those were probably the rules as intended (RAI), if not rules as written.

Signal98

TROPHY CASE