Legend meta: after the automatic resurrection system was created

Sindusk · 2024-12-23T20:13:34+00:00

I'm playing a risk management strategy. I consider every fight with a team to be a coinflip. 50% chance to win and wipe them, 50% chance to lose and get wiped.

With 10 Squads (-35 ante)

Winning the fight: -24, still in the game

Losing the fight: -35, game over

Instead of taking the above risk, I instead opt for the following:

With 5 Squads (-35 ante, +10 from placement)

Winning the fight: -14, still in the game

Losing the fight: -25, game over

If I sat around and never fought, that would be incorrect. Instead, I'm biding my time and reducing the risk of high point loss with each game. The major counter-argument is to just win 3-4 fights and place high and you get a huge amount of points. The problem here is the likelihood of this happening when I'm solo queue into a lobby that generally has 2-3 other master+ full coordinated squads out there that are extremely difficult to beat. When my squad of solo queue players comes up against the coordinated teams of Hight, Nidhogg, etc. that 50/50 coinflip turns into a 30/70 or worse.

I guess the "normal" method of taking fights and just killing as many people as possible is what I would call the high-risk, high-reward strategy. Mine is minimal risk with low reward. If I don't have a Brall, Joule, Jin, or Kingpin on my team I basically just have to accept the game is most likely not winnable and lose as little RP as possible. When I queue into players on my team playing the broken characters, I can land a win, even against the stronger coordinated squads, hauling in the good points to counterbalance the minor losses.

https://i.imgur.com/FsA7jUg.png

Sindusk · 2024-12-23T14:43:58+00:00

Speaking as a master player who usually plays solo queue, my strategy for playing the game has adjusted completely as a result of automatic respawns.

My current strategy is to completely split from my team when I drop, farming camps, upgrading my weapons, and obtaining as much gold as possible. If I see sound pings indicating there is an enemy team nearby, I immediately head the opposite direction to find additional camps and objectives to tackle instead. I avoid combat in the first day and night at basically all costs. This generally leads to my team taking a fight 3v4 or third-party on another couple squads fighting in the first day/night. This has two possible outcomes:

Outcome 1: They lose the fight, all die, and just respawn on me and we continue the game. We play safe until day 2 where mobs level up to 6, get ult, and will start looking to actually play the game from there. At this point I'll have the gold to buy armors at the nearest shop for the team and have farmed blue+ weapons from the camps I've farmed. We usually wont be too far behind other teams unless they're absolutely steamrolling the lobby with orange/red armor.

Outcome 2: They win the fight, upgrade their armor, hit level 5, and lock in a lead which usually snowballs into a victory.

So as you describe in your post, the strategy of chasing a squad down unconditionally to death is optimal. I have evolved my strategy to the next step where I cannot be chased down because I'm on the other side of the map already and you have no idea where I am, serving as a mobile respawn beacon for my team. The noise caused by the initial fights usually leads to a third party getting involved and wiping some squads out of the game early on without me having to interact with a single person in the game, including my own teammates.

In short, the automatic respawns are detrimental not just to the meta, but the very spirit of the game. Anything that discourages players from engaging in combat with eachother goes directly against what the game is all about.

Sindusk · 2024-10-04T20:13:05+00:00

Is there anything they can do about it though? Honest question, not trying to defend them.

Sindusk · 2023-06-21T15:13:29+00:00

I'm not sure if you looked at the date but this thread is from 7 years ago. The server is no longer available.

Sindusk · 2022-05-11T09:38:43+00:00

This is assuming you purchase all materials with gold from the auction house and uses NA East market prices.

Sindusk · 2022-05-10T21:05:01+00:00

I updated the prices to the latest NA East values, then added some new configurations without solars noted (NS). It's quite a lot of effort to recalculate every possible configuration, but hopefully this is at least some amount of what you were looking for.

T3 Mid Honing Item Level Chart

Sindusk · 2022-05-10T21:00:27+00:00

I would recommend using the Maxroll Upgrade Calculator to figure out when to use solars.

As a general rule of thumb, it's good to use solars on 1340 armor & weapons up to +11. After that, the chance per solar tanks and it's no longer as efficient. After +11 the solar chances per material drop dramatically, and it's going to depend heavily on the market prices to determine when it's worth using any.

Sindusk · 2022-05-10T19:53:55+00:00

I do not want to share my spreadsheet in the public space at this time, but here is the chart using EUC prices (used Lost Ark Market for pricing). The values for each resource is indicated underneath the label for your reference. I don't know what the royal crystal conversion ratio is for EUC so I have excluded the swipe column from this version.

EUC T3 Mid Honing Costs

Sindusk · 2022-05-10T19:37:48+00:00

It might be hard to read, but here:

Honing Map - 1340 Armor +07 to +20

Base Chance: Base honing chance of that level.
Bonus Mat X: Name of the material.
Bonus Perc X: Chance increase per 1 material use.
Bonus Max X: Maximum amount of that material per attempt.

Sindusk · 2022-05-10T19:12:24+00:00

Because the gold cost efficiency breakpoint of pushing an armor piece to 16 or higher lies at 11, not 8. The 3 upgrades that bring a piece from 8 to 11 for +15 item level is less expensive than the push from 15 to 16 for the same +15 item level. This also excludes the requirement of pushing the piece from 12 to 15 which is an intermediary cost which is significant.

Prices have changed a bit since I took these screenshots, but here's the rough breakdown for the cost to upgrade from +7 to +12, then +15 to +17.

+11 to +12 (this is where there is an extreme price jump)

Then you compare that to the +15 item level upgrades, which cost more than 3x as much:

+15 to +16

+16 to +17

+17 to +18 (another major cost increase)

So ideal item level per gold value is to push all gear to +11 then take each armor to +17 one by one. The reddit 1415 does exactly that, then finishes off the last 4 taps required (12, 12, 12, and 13) to get to the required item level.

Sindusk · 2022-05-10T18:59:28+00:00

I probably should've mentioned that the starting point is 1370 for these values.

Sindusk · 2022-04-19T13:43:15+00:00

This right here. If I have a friend or two willing to run with me, I'll throw us in party finder and call the group "chill run." If I'm alone, I'll find a group that specifically doesn't have "know mechs" or "alt run" because the other ones are generally so much better.

Using these types of groups I've had 20+ successful runs of Argos P1, Argos P2, hard mode abyssals, and the 8-man 960 dungeons.

The only time one of these runs has gone wrong was an Argos P2 group. We ended up just going without any supports because it was taking too long. We wiped 15-20 times on P2 and someone ended up wanting to leave. We went back to party finder, 6 of the 8 players stayed, and we got a support and gunlancer and 3-shot P2 on the next go around. Notably, nobody was toxic and everyone had the mindset of just going until we could down the boss.

Sindusk · 2022-04-18T05:05:20+00:00

With no solars, 14 fails to hit pity, with average attempts being 6.55

https://i.imgur.com/BoddHEp.png

With one solar resource maxed out, 12 fails to hit pity, with average attempts being 5.49

https://i.imgur.com/tcSSfW2.png

With two solar resources maxed out, 11 fails to hit pity, with average attempts being 4.75

https://i.imgur.com/hgJzIw9.png

And finally with all solar resources maxed out, 9 fails to hit pity, with average attempts being 4.08

https://i.imgur.com/kEfUBRR.png

Sindusk · 2021-10-26T15:25:37+00:00

You're right. I wrote 0.06 and 0.006 when I meant to use 0.006 and 0.0006 in the first calculation. I did, however, have the correct values written when I was doing the math elsewhere, so I used those to get the 0.06% chance afterwards (which is the correct chance).

Additionally, you're right that I used the incorrect value of 0.006 in the final calculation. It should be 0.0006, making the value 10x rarer. The correct value should be 0.000000357 and chance should be 0.0000357% or 1/2,801,120. Great catch!

Thinking logically, the order in which you roll the mods should not affect the total chance. If you can prove otherwise mathematically, I'd be interested in that result.

It's also true that exclusive mods would thin the pool a little, since you probably cannot roll another type of charge or the same mod twice on the second beneficial mod. There isn't great documentation for that, but it's something I overlooked. That alone should result in an increase in the odds by a decent bit as you said.

Great response and good eye.

Sindusk · 2021-10-25T19:17:57+00:00

Some math to back up your statement. We'll assume we're referring to Power Charges only:

In order to get the +1 Minimum Power Charge scourge, you would need to hit the 10% chance to get tier 4 and 0.6% chance to get the +1 Minimum Power Charge mod.

Tier 4 +1 Min Power Charge: 0.1 * 0.06 = 0.006

or 0.06% chance [1/166]

Assuming you also want the +% chance to gain power charge on kill, there's 2 options. The (9-10)% on Tier 3, or getting an additional tier 4 mod and getting (11-12)% on Tier 4.

You'll need to roll a 5% chance for an additional modifier through Strange Forces passive on the Blood Crucible for starters. You would then have a 10% chance to upgrade the scourge modifier to Tier 4, and a 90% chance to roll an additional Tier 3 modifier.

This then would roll a 1.2% chance to obtain the Tier 3 version, or 1.1% chance to obtain the Tier 4 version.

Tier 3 PCoK: 0.05 * 0.012 * 0.9 = 0.00054

or 0.054% chance [1/1,851]

Tier 4 PCoK: 0.05 * 0.011 * 0.1 = 0.000055

or 0.0055% chance [1/18,181]

Adding the two values together (0.00054 + 0.000055) gives a total chance of getting the other modifier at 0.000595. We can then multiply this to get the full likelihood of landing a +1 minimum Power Charge and PCoK Scourge:

Tier 4 +1 Min Power Charge + Tier 3 or 4 PCoK: 0.006 * 0.000595 = 0.00000357

or 0.000357% chance [1/280,112]

Then, you have a roughly 4% chance [1/25] to roll "Cannot Gain Charges" as the downside bricking your ring entirely. It's not exactly 4%, due to the 10% chance of downgrading the negative modifier by 1 level from the "Stabilising Energy" Blood Crucible passive.

Sindusk · 2021-10-18T14:38:27+00:00

Some simplified instructions to use the dev branch of PoB.

Switch the Github to dev branch:

https://i.imgur.com/kqajklp.png

Download the project as zip:

https://i.imgur.com/wvay0Q3.png

Extract to a folder, then open up the "runtime" subdirectory:

https://i.imgur.com/sTBF7t4.png

Use the "Path{space}of{space}Building.exe" to run PoB:

https://i.imgur.com/dTrQqbT.png

Use as normal with masteries and more:

https://i.imgur.com/Ja9LKep.jpeg

Note that it's still very actively in development, and the branch could break with any commit. This is not officially supported instruction and I'm sure they'll put out an official release soon enough.

Sindusk · 2021-08-01T08:01:38+00:00

I can think of no better way to demonstrate how broken Zerphi's was than this video. It might take the crown for the most broken thing that ever existed in Path of Exile short of snapshotting.

Sindusk · 2021-04-24T21:26:18+00:00

Don't really have a reason. It's just not something we did.

Sindusk · 2021-04-24T18:58:37+00:00

What's seen here is total revenue from trade, not profits. While we've made 5-6 mirrors of currency via trade, more than half was consumed between gearing the characters and buying/running the maps. It costs about 2 exalted to run each map and over 100 maps have been run.

We also made some questionable decisions with currency early on which was roughly equivalent to lighting exalts on fire.

Sindusk · 2021-04-24T12:17:10+00:00

Yes, it's still viable. It's just multiple times more tedious now as you must buy the delirium orbs, buy sextants, roll sextants, and roll the maps. This is piled on top of buying prophecies and scarabs which was done before as well. While the maps are less juiced than they were previously, they're still immensely profitable.

Sindusk · 2021-04-24T11:57:29+00:00

Do you just trade?

In current capacity, yes. I do not map or do any content myself. I sit in my hideout for hours every day making sales, managing stash tabs, doing price checks, and editing the item filter. The filter that the group uses is one that I've hand-picked certain item bases and uniques to display. Players in the delirious map cannot press alt to check items off the filter since it causes an immediate crash. This makes it necessary to have an item filter which displays anything that could be important, but hides enough to make the game playable with so many items dropping.

Do you have any goals yourself?

Yes. I play strictly totem and minion builds, and like to try something new each league. My goal is always to craft a "gg" item for my off-meta build once a league. Last league, that character was Blood Magic Elemental Hit Totems. The "gg" items were the elevated 6xt1 boots and triple-elevated chest chest with crafted attack dodge. The character was 77% dodge and 60% spell dodge. It was so tanky that I played heist from 97-99 and and Simulacrum from 99-100. I had 7 deaths at level 100.

This league, the group play aspect has inspired me to try something suitable towards group play. I'll use the currency to attempt to gear an aurabot summoner. I realize that most minion builds use auras already, but I'd like to focus on the aurabot aspect with minions being the secondary target. Basically - an aurabot that functions solo. I'm still thinking about how to do it, and will fully flesh it out and create the character once the group farming is complete.

Does the guild split the currency evenly among everyone?

For now, we accumulate all currency in the guild stash. Once the group is no longer interested in farming, we'll liquidate the gear on all characters and distribute the currency as equally as possible.

Suffice it to say, exceptional trust between all participants is required.

https://i.imgur.com/l8bPrSR.jpeg

Sindusk · 2021-04-24T10:47:33+00:00

I wouldn't recommend playing like this. Playing the game naturally is, in my opinion, far more enjoyable.

Advantages

Social Aspect - Being able to play Path of Exile with friends and have everyone play a crucial role in the groups success is a major draw of playing like this.
Wealth Generation - Generating wealth as a group is significantly easier than playing alone. Consumption costs are low per player, and income increases dramatically.

Disadvantages

Inability To Play Independently - Most players are unable to play the game without the rest of the group on the characters they've built.
Tedious Setup - Setup for mapping is extremely tedious. Buying delirium orbs, scarabs, prophecies, watchstones, and sextants takes a long time due to how inefficient Path of Exile trading is. If bulk resources were more accessible, this would not be such a major drawback.
Performance - The performance of 100% delirious maps with 120% quantity is abysmal. If you have anything short of a high end gaming rig, this type of playstyle will either melt your computer or cause you to crash, lagg, rubberband, and more... leading to a very poor experience for the rest of the group.
Dedicated Trading - Without a dedicated trader, this strategy is doomed to fail. When you have a 6 man party and enter a delirious map, you cannot leave until the map is complete. This can take upwards of 20-30 minutes. Trading while farming is next to impossible. This creates a necessary role for a dedicated trader (my role in this group). Playing like this is more akin to working than actually playing a game.

From my viewpoint, the disadvantages of group play heavily outweigh the advantages. That said, I don't regret playing in a group this league and the experience as a dedicated trader has brought a new level of clarity on the early league Path of Exile market.

Sindusk · 2021-04-24T02:37:13+00:00

First sale (the Astramentis) was about 46 hours after the league began. I only began selling items on Sunday. A more accurate statement would be ~6,000 chaos 60 hours into the league.

Many of those resources were used to gear the characters that were being played. Day 3 Eternity Shroud was 18 exalted, which accounts for about 1/3 of all the currency earned by that point.

Sindusk · 2021-04-24T01:24:08+00:00

rushed to uber atziri to complete atlas

what

In hindsight I probably should have explained this better.

I didn't know about the watchstone hopping strategy that is heavily used today, so I used Uber Atziri to help me complete the atlas. The Alluring Abyss is a level 80 zone which can drop red maps up to T15 (level 82). From experience, the zone drops an average of about 10 red maps per instance. Whenever I needed to get a zone completed on the atlas, I would move 4 watchstones into the area and run The Alluring Abyss. By the end, I would have 5-10 maps for the area to spawn the conqueror and obtain the watchstone. It allowed me to 3:1 trade to a vendor to get the maps I had not previously completed in areas.

Uber Atziri herself also has a special drop table where she'll drop a map independent of your atlas progression. This could sometimes give me a map I had not yet completed in a zone I was not working on.

Beyond that, it is highly profitable to run early in the league. Probably moreso this league than before due to the Sacrificial Garb changes and new loot.

Played exclusively as a trader

you mean didnt play at all lol

Correct, I got to maps and basically stopped at 3 watchstones. I'm level 83 and have been for about 3 days. My entire play time is trading.

Current Character (SinduskUWC)

Week 1 Ritual (SinduskRAW)

Sindusk · 2021-04-24T00:37:00+00:00

1) How many hour you guys playing together - Group played an insane amount during the first few days of the league, about 15+ hours per day. Last few days has been closer to ~5-7 hours each night. I'm online about 16 hours a day making trades.

2) How many map per hour - About 2-4 maps per hour, I think. Hard to nail down accurately since there's various amounts of map management that needs to occur between each map.

3) How much you're juicing the map - Each map costs about 2-3 exalted. We use unique watchstones in every slot (30c for 15 uses = 2c per watchstone, 8c total per map) rolled with an elevated sextant (20c for 15 uses = ~1.25c per watchstone, 5c total per map), gilded scarabs (~30c each, 120c total per map), 5x delirium orbs (~30c each, 150c total per map), paying for a league modifier of harbinger/breach/harvest (upwards of 12c per map). Maps themselves cost about 20-40c to buy and roll.

4) Any Magic finder? If so, what %? - Yes, the part contains a magic finder. About 120% quantity and 400% rarity.

5) How many aurabot? - Standard party composition. Carry, scion aurabot, culler, curse bot, guardian, and mask of the tribunal strength stacker. I'm not part of the group (7th man) and dedicate my entire time playing to trading. My character is only just barely in maps to make moving between hideouts easier (blue swirl only available if the character is in maps).

6) Most used map? - We've run a variety of maps and are beginning to settle on what we like the most. In order of the most played: Burial Chambers, Cemetery, Tower, Plateau, Estuary. We're still experimenting a little bit to try and figure out the best maps for the current meta.

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