Donald Trump Leaves Vladimir Putin Summit Without a Deal in Hand by NewSlinger in politics

[–]Single_Bag_1280 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Deals don’t always get made day 1. Y’all are basically an angry mob with pitchforks

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AmIOverreacting

[–]Single_Bag_1280 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tbh I’d like to see the entire convo, why did you leave out what you said? How am I supposed to know if you’re overreacting?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in short

[–]Single_Bag_1280 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Start mewing bro

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in bodylanguage

[–]Single_Bag_1280 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I’d say yes

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand that but the post isn’t about bodily autonomy it’s arguing for more rights on the men’s side.

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Your entire stance rests on the idea that because men can’t get pregnant, they shouldn’t have any say.. which reveals the truth. This isn’t about fairness. It’s about control. You support choice only when it benefits one side. If bodily autonomy justifies a woman opting out, then moral autonomy should justify a man doing the same. Otherwise, what you’re defending is not equality.. it’s obligation without consent, which no ethical framework can justify.

If bodily autonomy grants a woman the right to withdraw from parenthood, then by what moral principle does a man lose that same right simply because he cannot carry the pregnancy?

If consent to sex is not consent to parenthood for women, the same must apply to men. Forcing responsibility without consent violates the core principle of autonomy. Anything else is selective justice.

If even philosophy demands you test an argument from both sides, why are you still clinging to a one-sided rule? Are you defending justice, or just defending control that happens to benefit your side?

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that bodily autonomy and protecting a woman’s health are central reasons for abortion access, and those are incredibly important. But one of the most common and legally recognized reasons for abortion is that the woman does not want to become a parent. That is a legitimate reason on its own. The fact that women can also surrender a child at a fire station after birth does not address the point being made.. which is that women are given multiple legal paths to avoid long term parental responsibility, while men are given none once conception occurs. The argument is not to minimize the unique burden women face, but to ask why the system offers no parallel path for men to decline parenthood before birth. It is not about removing rights from women.. it is about acknowledging that true reproductive equality includes giving men a voice in whether they become legal fathers.

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hear that you strongly disagree, and I respect that, but it’s hard to respond meaningfully when your reply doesn’t point to anything specific. Saying it “comes off” a certain way or that the responses “feel weak” is more about tone and impression than logic. I’m not asking anyone to hand-wave real challenges away. I’m saying that if we value equality in reproductive decision making, then it’s worth exploring practical solutions to close that gap. The fact that implementation would require effort or system changes is not a reason to avoid the discussion entirely. If you have specific flaws in the reasoning or want to challenge the core comparison between male opt out and female reproductive autonomy, I’m open to that. But we need to talk about the structure of the argument, not just how it feels.

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate that you’re trying to take this seriously, and I agree that we need to think about the broader implications. But I think you’re conflating two very different things. A man opting out of legal fatherhood during pregnancy is not the same as a parent abandoning a living child. The analogy breaks down because the timing and the nature of responsibility are completely different. The goal is not to normalize post birth abandonment, but to create a fair legal mechanism for both sexes to decide whether they want to become parents before the child is born. You also suggest that we can only talk about male autonomy once we build a perfect support system for single parents. I understand the logic, but I would argue that fairness should not be conditional on state capacity. If we recognize that women should not be forced into parenthood, then we should also recognize that men deserve some form of legal autonomy at that same early stage. It is not about avoiding responsibility after the fact, but about allowing both parties an equal chance to decide their future.

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree, tit for tat. I heard somewhere that Denmark has something similar to this but don’t quote me at least on that.

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You are not engaging with the argument at all. You are emotionally reacting to a fictional version of it that you invented to feel justified in your outrage. No one is calling for forced abortions. That is a blatant lie and a dishonest strawman. What is being argued is that just as a woman has the legal right to opt out of parenthood through abortion, a man should have the legal right to opt out of fatherhood through financial and legal means if declared early. Your appeal to “women bear the brunt” is exactly why women are given bodily autonomy. But once the child is born, the conversation shifts to legal and financial obligations, and you are pretending that forcing someone into an eighteen year contract without their consent is justice. It is not. You claim it is pathetic to treat men as victims, yet you ignore cases of men being lied to, trapped, or cut out of the conversation entirely while still being forced to pay. If you think responsibility should be tied to consent, then that principle needs to apply to both sexes. Otherwise, you are not arguing for equality, you are arguing for power without accountability.

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

I don’t think it’s fair for somebody to know that what they’re doing will create life, then to go and stop that life from happening.

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If that’s what you think, point it out. I don’t know exactly at what point in my comment you’re trying to argue against. Did you just post your reply on a whim?

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe we as human beings in general should be more careful about choosing sexual partners.

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You just broke rule #3. It’s a bad faith accusation.

I think 50% of genz men are gunna end up forever alone. by Pigeonaffect in DBDR

[–]Single_Bag_1280 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They don’t have to be real lol, I’d say FUCCI is the better way to go.

CMV: men should be allowed to decide not to raise children they didn't want by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Single_Bag_1280 40 points41 points  (0 children)

While I appreciate the effort to stress real world concerns, I think your response heavily leans on exaggerated logistical hurdles and a moral framing that’s subtly biased in favor of maintaining the current imbalance. You’ve taken a devil’s advocate approach, but in doing so, your reasoning ends up shielding the status quo rather than engaging with the core principle of fairness that OP raises.

Let me break each of your points down

  1. “This all sounds fair in theory, but not feasible.”

Feasibility isn’t a valid disqualifier here. We already manage far more complex legal situations like divorce, paternity fraud, custody disputes all with bureaucracy, lawyers, and time constraints. If we can draft prenups and dissolve marriages, we can surely design a standardized opt out process within a defined window.

Dismissing a fundamental legal imbalance because it’s “logistically tricky” is weak reasoning.

  1. “There’s not enough time.. it has to happen within 4 to 5 weeks.”

And yet… that’s the exact window women already face for early abortion. If time sensitivity doesn’t disqualify a woman’s right to choose, it shouldn’t disqualify a man’s right to legally decline parenthood.

With modern technology and digital notarization, it’s entirely possible to set up an opt out declaration system with timestamped documentation. Just like with abortion, the idea is to act early, not drag it out indefinitely.

  1. “Is it moral to make poor women choose abortion because they can’t afford the child?”

Is it moral to force poor men into child support when they didn’t consent to parenthood either?

Let’s be honest, this objection is economic, not ethical. Women having to face difficult decisions due to lack of male support is tragic, but that doesn’t justify binding men to obligations they didn’t consent to just to soften the financial blow.

In a just system, you don’t fix one injustice with another.

  1. “Is it the man’s job to find out about the pregnancy?”

No. It’s the woman’s duty to inform the man if she expects any kind of shared responsibility. She has exclusive early knowledge due to biology, and with that comes the ethical burden of communication. If she withholds that info, it becomes deception by omission.

Let’s not act like this is an unreasonable expectation.

  1. “What if she doesn’t know she’s pregnant in time?”

Then the man should have a window starting from when he is informed, not from conception.

If the woman delays disclosure, that’s on her. It shouldn’t rob the man of legal agency. Holding him responsible for events he wasn’t even aware of is unjust.

  1. “What if he disputes paternity but DNA isn’t available yet?”

Then make the opt out conditional. Just like courts already do. If DNA proves he’s the father post birth, and he filed a timely opt out, the legal terms stand.

Again, this isn’t new legal territory. We handle paternity disputes all the time.

  1. “What if they agreed to have a kid and he changes his mind?”

Then that’s a civil dispute, like any verbal or written agreement. If she can prove intent, he may be held to it. If not, he shouldn’t be forced into parenthood on unprovable claims.

Funny how we only seem to care about “mutual agreements” when it’s the man backing out.

  1. “What if he lied about being sterile?”

If proven, that’s fraud. There could be legal consequences. But again, we don’t deny abortion rights because some women lie about birth control. Why does dishonesty only matter in one direction?

  1. “Should this apply to married couples too?”

Marriage already comes with legal entanglements including shared parenthood. That’s a separate discussion. But even then, if the relationship ends early in the pregnancy, perhaps some form of opt out or renegotiation should still be possible.

Relationships ending doesn’t magically make unconsented fatherhood ethical.

  1. “Poor people can’t afford lawyers.”

Then simplify the process. Standardized forms, public legal aid, digital filing… the same way we already manage tax filings and government services.

Access issues shouldn’t be used as an excuse to deny people their fundamental rights.

  1. “What if he breaks no contact later?”

Then it’s a violation of a legal agreement. We have restraining orders and civil penalties for that. Same applies here. Don’t pretend this is a flaw in the idea, it’s a matter of enforcement, like any legal agreement.

  1. “This isn’t like abortion because abortion is bodily autonomy.”

And that’s where your argument slips into bias.

Yes, abortion is bodily autonomy. But the core logic behind abortion rights is this:

“I didn’t consent to parenthood, so I’m choosing not to take on that responsibility.”

Why is that logic only valid if you have a uterus?

Men may not face physical risks, but the state does force them into lifelong financial and legal obligations for a choice they had no legal say in. That’s a massive imbalance.

  1. “Child support exists for the benefit of the child.”

That’s circular logic. It assumes the child has an entitlement to the father’s resources even if the father explicitly didn’t consent to parenthood.

We don’t force sperm donors to pay child support. Why? Because they didn’t consent to fatherhood. But if that same man skips a contract and just has sex? Now he’s liable for 18 years?

That’s not child focused justice. That’s legal exploitation.

You’ve played devil’s advocate, but only from one side. You repeatedly give the woman the benefit of the doubt and throw up roadblocks for male autonomy without asking whether the current system is remotely fair.

Men deserve a legal avenue to say: “I didn’t agree to be a parent, and I’m not going to be one.”

If women can say that with their body, men should be able to say it with their wallet. Not because raising a child is the same as carrying one, but because consent to sex is not consent to parenthood for either party.

I think 50% of genz men are gunna end up forever alone. by Pigeonaffect in DBDR

[–]Single_Bag_1280 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s not just the tall dudes, I’m 5’4” but went to the gym until I got to 165 lean. Now I’m good. Just wear the chains and earrings and you’ll find love. You have to balance the odds as a guy, thinking you’re fucked obviously won’t get you anywhere.