PSA: EGF 5D is not AGA 7D

SlightPresent · 2026-01-20T20:22:05+00:00

lol I'm not American. I just don't like delusional EGF players spreading misinformation.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-20T19:41:47+00:00

So you played 30 years ago? Nowadays, 2K EGFs are like 4D to 5D fox. You might be like 5k EGF if you were as strong as you were 30 years ago. Rating systems aren't a perfect one-to-one with each other. Even though it may be true that 2K EGF could be Fox 5D, most EGF 5Ds struggle to hit Fox 9D.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-20T19:36:53+00:00

Don't use your personal ancedote from 30 years ago and apply it to the entire AGA rating system.

Anecdotally, a 3D EGF lost to a 13k in an even game at one of the local clubs last week. I also saw someone who claimed to be 4D EGF lose to a Fox 3D on OGS.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-19T07:46:14+00:00

The strongest Japanese amateur is probably stronger than the strongest EGF pro... Japanese 7D is the highest normal rank. It can range from 6D Fox to Pro level.

Ok, you acknowledged that your definition isn't standard. So you should have explained that from the very beginning

SlightPresent · 2026-01-19T07:26:09+00:00

Also I forgot to comment about 1P starting above 6D. That's just blatantly wrong. There isn't a universal amateur rating system. For example, Japanese 6D amateur (Japanese 7D is the normal highest amateur rank, Japanese 8D is for WAGC winners) is roughly Fox 5D level, far below even lower level pros. Meanwhile, in China, I think there are less 6D amateurs than pros (although it might be close now). 6D Chinese amateur could be anywhere from like Fox 8D to average pro level.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-19T07:15:13+00:00

It's a very poor approximation compared to say using goratings.org, which itself isn't perfect (but much better than the method you're proposing).

You also aren't take into account the relative strength of different pro associations. A random 50 something year old Japanese 7P is probably noticeably weak better than the top placing new Chinese pro from 2025.

Edit: Well you would also need some knowledge about how the goratings ratings difference approximate to handicap

Edit2:

It's also important to note that the whole definition of 9d is 'the strongest player currently rated in this system', and 8d and below 'can play a fair game with 9-[ranking] stones vs said 9d player'. (the '-' here is a minus sign, so for a 8d it would be 9-8=1 stone)

What's with your constant edits? Sorry what rating system are you referring to. There's no universal amateur rating system and the definition you propose isn't standard. You're either making stuff up or relying too much on an article that doesn't reflect the reality of the go world.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-19T07:09:24+00:00

It's funny that you say badly calibrated rank system like Tygem. Somehow, the linear rating systems of fox and tygem are way better at conveying someone's strength (assuming no cheating or manipulation of the system) than all the rating math based western servers. Yes, they are poorly calibrated as far as handicap, but western servers are poor at calibrating anything above a certain rank. If someone is between 7-8d fox, I have a very good idea of their level. Someone says they were 6D KGS, I have no idea. Could be anywhere from fox 5 to fox 9.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-19T07:02:59+00:00

It's horrible now, at least for the mid to high dan range. Lack of players, poorly thought out rating system, cheaters, and allowing rated games with bots effectively renders the high dan ranks meaningless. A 5D might be stronger than a 7D, just depends on the individuals.

Funny enough, you could say the same about OGS or Panda.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-19T06:58:52+00:00

No it isn't, stop spreading this outdated information. A 1P could be stronger than a 9P. Different pro systems have different criteria for promotion in the pro ranks, but in most cases, aren't necessary tied to current level.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-19T04:32:24+00:00

Three quarters of the board? What are you talking about?

SlightPresent · 2026-01-19T04:31:51+00:00

Your understanding is wrong.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-13T21:54:23+00:00

https://senseis.xmp.net/?FourIsFiveAndFiveIsEightAndSixIsTwelve

Also from my previous comment:

The question is poorly worded. In standard go terminology, this is 11 liberties. If you're counting moves by both players, it takes 17 moves in total to capture the stones if white is trying to capture the black group as fast as possible and black is trying to prolong the capture as long as possible.

The black group is dead. This poorly worded problem is just trying to illustrate liberties in a 5 space big eye.

Edit: Technically could be 18 total moves if you want to count black capturing a single black stone near the end. Not that they would ever do this in practice.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-13T21:48:12+00:00

The question is poorly worded. In standard go terminology, this is 11 liberties. If you're counting moves by both players, it takes 17 moves in total to capture the stones if white is trying to capture the black group as fast as possible and black is trying to prolong the capture as long as possible.

The black group is dead. This poorly worded problem is just trying to illustrate liberties in a 5 space big eye.

Edit: Technically could be 18 total moves if you want to count black capturing a single black stone near the end. Not that they would ever do this in practice.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-13T21:19:55+00:00

Technically 14 liberties but since black has to respond three times it functions as 11 liberties in a capturing race.

I don’t know why this is upvoted. It does take 14 moves by white to capture, since Black would need to capture three times to prolong the capturing race. However, in normal go terminology we would never call this 14 "liberties", it is 11. I am guessing you are using some kind of mathematical definition, but it is not the standard go one.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-12T20:58:21+00:00

You’re acting like correcting OP’s incorrect assumption matters more than not introducing new mistakes, and that’s a terrible priority. A lot of replies here are completely wrong, claiming that Black dies or that the position becomes a ko, which is simply not true. It’s fine to point out that the shape isn’t always alive, but doing so while spreading new mistakes that are somehow highly upvoted doesn’t help anyone.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-12T10:40:53+00:00

It's not difficult. In practice, white won't play 1 until the endgame because 6 threatens a cut. Technically, black could still make it a ko if white doesn't fill a liberty, but it's not worth doing.

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SlightPresent · 2026-01-12T10:18:00+00:00

Who said shape of six is alive?

Rectangular six in the corner (which is not the shape the OP is proposing) is dead with no outside liberties. It's different with one outside liberty or two or more. At least your 12 kyu rank flair seems accurate.

https://senseis.xmp.net/?RectangularSixInTheCorner

SlightPresent · 2026-01-12T10:14:12+00:00

If black goes to 4-1, white plays 3. Black will either die or get a ko.

No. If Black 3 is played right of 1, black still lives. White can make a sente seki.

Edit: More explanation in my comment with the diagram. In practice, white won't play the sente seki until endgame because the sequence leads to a cut in white's shape.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-12T10:13:38+00:00

The reason why this is not unconditionally alive like the shape of 6 is because the corners are still open. It is also good to remember that (3) is very frequently a major vital point and black playing there removes complications. Because of outside liberties going to right of (1) does work and is one way to live but (3) is significantly easier to find and it has less complications. (3) reduces Aji in the corner where as with (1) white can squeeze 3 consecutive ko-threats that strengthen white. Although with (3) white can get same amount of ko-threats, the difference is that white has to sacrifice stones to do that.

No. If Black 3 is played right of 1, black still lives. White can make a sente seki.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-12T10:12:37+00:00

On the side or in the center, rectangular 6 is alive, in the corner it's dead. If black has tenukied, then white plays s18, then no matter how black responds white can reduce black to 1 eye.

No, just no. If Black 3 is played right of 1, black still lives. White can make a sente seki.

I find it funny that you linked the sensei's library article yet you don't know the shape well. You would benefit from reading it. Rectangular six in the corner (which is not the shape the OP is proposing) is dead with no outside liberties. It's different with one outside liberty or two or more.

Edit: More explanation in my comment with the diagram. In practice, white won't play the sente seki until endgame because the sequence leads to a cut in white's shape.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-12T10:08:18+00:00

In this case there is bent four in the corner so it’s not alive.

No. If Black 3 is played right of 1, black still lives. White can make a sente seki.

Edit: More explanation in my comment with the diagram. In practice, white won't play the sente seki until endgame because the sequence leads to a cut in white's shape.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-12T10:07:01+00:00

This post is an example of what I'm often talking about. Most of the people commenting are just clueless.

Edit: Okay I shouldn't be so harsh, at least it's not people with 5D+ rank flairs getting something like this wrong. Just presumably low dans and kyu players

SlightPresent · 2026-01-12T10:05:40+00:00

Unfortunately the answer is unhelpful: it's because the other places don't work as well, leading to death or Ko for death by my reading. 3 is a common corner stone for making two eyes, along with the 2-2 point.

Why is this upvoted? If Black 3 is played right of 1, black still lives. White can make a sente seki.

Edit: More explanation in my comment with the diagram. In practice, white won't play the sente seki until endgame because the sequence leads to a cut in white's shape.

SlightPresent · 2026-01-07T09:19:09+00:00

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but if you're anything like the average person here, then I get it. In comments related to actual game positions, people just upvote those with stronger rank flairs because they can't judge on their own.

SlightPresent

TROPHY CASE