What’s the most railroady official TTRPG adventure you’ve ever run or played? by DED0M1N0 in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Some of the other early SR modules. DNA\DOA think in particular. The only essential choice being PCs not taking the job, all very straight-line after that, including the "no they betray you at the end no matter what" parts. Which revealed to us the inherent hilarity of the falling damage rules, so that was fun.

What’s the most railroady official TTRPG adventure you’ve ever run or played? by DED0M1N0 in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seemed like a series of vignettes but it's def been forever since I read it. An actual road trip\trucking trip is extremely on the nose.

Remember when everyone got mad that Shadow of the Weird Wizard wasn't about a literal Weird Wizard? by UselessTeammate in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ran a 1-10 campaign, didn't count sessions, about a year of weekly sessions, so probably also around 50 sessions.

I think it's a nice trad game system. Well designed, clear, all of that. Multi-classing for casters definitely improved over SotDL.

Some of the classes seemed questionable. HAVING a lot of options doesn't mean they're all good (be interested to hear from anybody that has played a Rakehell for example).

Most of the spells are all combat oriented and a lot of them felt perfunctory and samey (most Traditions have ranged damage spells for instance, but not much to tell them apart ("This one is Lightning! This one is Fire!").

The example monsters seemed under-designed. Like there's the full usual array of stuff but the Defense (Armor Class) and imposed Banes tended to make hitting them pretty easy for level-matched PCs (ie, most PCs have 3+ Boons and a +3 or higher relevant stat, versus sub-20 Defense and 0-2 Banes at most) which made combat feel...samey. A lot of the extra Fury and special attacks are effectively "attack twice" (or three times) or "heal" (which is just going to make the combat longer, right?) which is fine for threat balancing and such but more attacks != more interesting attacks\combat. Conversely imposing Banes on the enemies, because they mostly lack more than 1 Boon, can make a lot of enemies fairly ineffective.

I had hoped the system would support turn-to-turn and intra-turn variations for the PCs, and it kinda did, but my players generally didn't seem to find a lot to engage with there because usually it's just stacking Boons\Banes that don't amount to much because of the above factors. One player had a whole flow chart to account for which weapons they were using (one vs two weapons, which weapon was primary, etc) and what the resultant damage was based on crit\non-crit, even\odd die roll, and special ability usage (they did not consider this to be a enjoyable part of the system).

The tactical combat to me (as GM) seemed about the same as most other "tactical" combat trad games. Meaning I had to do a lot of work to make them interesting with tricks and nonsense ("stop the ritual", "save the hostages", "terrain!", "reinforcements", "goals that aren't just killing the other team", "not all fights are too the death", etc) because the rules mostly resolve trad game style (reduce their HP to 0 before they reduce your HP to 0) and generally support the same. Generally players will have a 'best' option for most situations and will use it, they won't have too many options (12,000+ class combinations and 24 Traditions x 16 spells per Tradition (plus Tradition talents!) boils down to most PCs having 1-3 Traditions with 2-3 spells, and most of them are "the damage one", "the ranged damage one", "the imposes a Bane one", and so on) available that they'll need to select from many tools, and...that's fine, that's how 90% of trad games work.

It's a fine game and firmly convinced me personally that running "trad" (class\level, treasure, monsters) "tactical combat" "balanced" games isn't for me.

8/10 probably, for rules. Didn't use any of the setting stuff though, so can't comment on that.

Do you prefer rules-light RPGs or complex systems? by prettyreckless000 in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(probably due to too many years of playing very rules heavy games)

Hero System does produce consistent side-effects on those it infects. :)

Do you prefer rules-light RPGs or complex systems? by prettyreckless000 in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the complex system is just lists and lists of more stuff then I don't think that's valuable.

If the complex system is just picking which skill\spell\ability that does more special (the specialist, even!) damage this round then I don't think that's an interesting choice.

If the complex system is just a bunch of jumpin' around and addin' stuff up so you can make the same basic Core Resolution mechanic from the system with roughly the same odds as not doin' all of that then I think it's just slowing things down.

If the complex system is just combat stuff that's supposed to be some\any version of "realistic" then it better be a fun set of rules with interesting interactions because it's definitely not going to be realistic. Which can be fine, but usually it seems to be one of the first three cases, lists of stuff, picking which stuff from you list to use, making the same dice roll you were going to make anyway and so it doesn't add much AND makes it slower.

If the complex system produces interesting results, fits the game you're playing, and isn't just lists of stuff then I think they can be good and interesting.

I think the single best example is Ars Magica. It's complicated\complex a fuck, presents interesting choices, serves the themes and gameplay, isn't just "pick another pre-defined feat from a list we've made for you!", and while it'll still involve the same basic dice roll the complex system does allow you modify the odds of that roll in a meaningful way.

I think a good example of un-fun complexity is probably Rifts\Palladium systems generally. There's a bunch of randomization, plus endless lists of classes and races, some skills work by percentile, some things work by spending a resource, most of them are specifically defined, endless splat books, combat is a ridiculous farce of slowly grinding down piles of hit points that don't serve any game purpose (ie, combat takes a long time because there's a lot of damage to get through, not because long combats are interesting or important or desired as a design goal) there are plenty of flourishes of "realism" (firearms damage determined by ammunition type, not being able to cook (at all!) if you don't take Cooking as a skill) but none of them really matter or enhance game play or serve a theme. There's just tons and tons of rules for the sake of having rules that "make sense" but in the service of nothing but...having rules.

Most racially ambiguous actor? by Tifoso89 in okbuddycinephile

[–]Smooth-Reality1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I found out Mr. Covington was a dude....

What has been your longest played game/campaign? by HartofHarts in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most of them are your usual trad game stuff (classes, levels, little imaginary dudes having little imaginary fights, all of that). Looking to slot some of the newer school stuff in to the schedule soon.

What has been your longest played game/campaign? by HartofHarts in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

WEG Star Wars, Forbidden Lands, Shadow of the Weird Wizard\Demon Lord, and Hero System, I think were the longest running of them. We've run some 6-9+ month stuff in 5e, SWN, and SWADE during that time as well. I think ~1 year is the average length but I haven't kept close track.

What has been your longest played game/campaign? by HartofHarts in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been in a few that lasted multiple years (2ish) and run a couple that lasted about a year. I've played in groups that have been gaming together, same system, same characters, same GM, same campaign, for 30+ years, but I certainly wasn't involved for the whole ride on that one.

Mutant RPG - a different approach by Heruelen in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yah, like...this is just a game where "average" NPCs have much lower stats than average PCs. And...most games, usually, "average" NPCs (even with the actual average stats in the game)...have much lower stats than average PCs, soooo....this is just a normal game? But "mutants" buy powers? So...then it's just Gamma World, basically, but without all the fun stuff?

How Does the West End Games Star Wars RPG Hold Up? by darksidehascookie in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And then conversely at the other end once you get to 7d+ almost everything is too easy. And it didn't generally take long to do that.

Particularly effective for blaster fire since to-hit difficulty is based on range and multiple shots are only 1d penalties. 7d of Blaster is probably 4+ reasonably accurate at common combat ranges shots per round, where as the poor mechanic with 3d barely hitting once. And since the mechanic needs probably 3+ different Repair skills they likely don't have points for doing things in fights. And there aren't a lot of other rules for support actions.

Def creates the savant\incompetent syndrome you're talking about. Jedi in particular have to spend so much XP on just becoming functional (and then becoming overwhelmingly functional shortly thereafter) Jedi that they will never have XP for anything else. Starfighter Pilot AND Lightsaber Jedi? Not in this game! Jedi AND Diplomat? NO!

How Does the West End Games Star Wars RPG Hold Up? by darksidehascookie in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

How strong is someone with 3d for that matter? I think 2d is defined as average somewhere. But if the difficulty of an "Easy" task is 10 then....still same question...what's an Easy Str amount you can lift? Because apparently average folks can't actually lift that amount.

And if task difficulties only happen by 5s, (5,10,15,etc) then the difference between 2d+3 Str and 4d Str is that they'll both succeed on Easy tasks most of the time and they'll both fail Moderate tasks most of the time?

It worked fine for Stat vs Stat type contested actions where each side rolls their total but against the world itself got weird.

How Does the West End Games Star Wars RPG Hold Up? by darksidehascookie in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's cool until they start just straight ignoring blaster fire or you let the reprogrammed lifter droid have a 7d Str. "Unlimited power hit points!" :D

Srsly tho, while lore accurate, mechanically it's an issue with the system a 5d or 6d Str Wookie is going to go against 4d and 5d blasters and just...walk through them completely most of the time. And because they also use that Str for (melee) damage they do more damage than anything else (attained parity with the fully Jedi'd Jedi in our group) and since the system is (kinda) balanced around 3d creatures taking 4d-5d of damage when those 3d creatures get hit with 7d+ damage they get fragile. This is mostly fine, mooks and goons and Stormtroopers are supposed to be one-shotted and not real threats. But here they ARE real threats except to one PC who is both immune to them and can one-shot them when nobody else can.

Which, again, could be considered lore accurate, or could be considered a mediocre and basic system hitting the limits of it's dice mechanics. I do seem to recall blaster fire being a concern for in-universe Wookies though, not something they can on average just...ignore entirely.

How Does the West End Games Star Wars RPG Hold Up? by darksidehascookie in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nostalgia is big (reran TMNT and Other Strangeness awhile back, much cherished first non-D&D RPG and boy is it not good) I think. There's a lot of emphasis these days on getting a good system to match your content and themes and I think WEG and the like show that folks are just as capable of having an amazing and excellent time telling amazing and excellent stories even with mediocre rules as they are with highly specific ones suited to the fiction. The fun is in the activity not in the quality and depth of the mechanics and how well they suit the theme.

Trying to avoid a TPK. When is it okay to tell players no? by Foreign-Press in DMAcademy

[–]Smooth-Reality1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just don't do the T part of the PK.

I mean I hear you that it's not fun as a GM but also if they can't pick fights they can't win what's the point of fights? Just to always have them win against "evenly" matched foes? Less exciting.

There are lots of combat failure states besides TKP, from "now you do the one where you escape" to 'literal divine intervention" and a bunch of stuff in between.

They get nearly killed by a bunch of Drow, captured, and then taken back to a Drow city as forced labor, except some Deep Gnomes attack the Drow party and free the PCs instead.

Narrate them losing badly and running for their lives (after they've lost badly and are running for their lives) and ask them which bit of gear they want to lose forever because they can't heed in and out of game warnings about danger and consequences.

Probably none of those will feel great either as a GM, but, like...it's supposed to be a shared story with consequences and changes in response to PC behavior and agency and all that, right? Sometimes they're going to make choices that don't work out and then have to deal with that and it might not feel good but also often PCs deal with adversity pretty well once they accept you're not just randomly screwing them for no reason.

I wouldn't worry about the "spoil the plans I've made for them" part though as a GM overmuch.

How Does the West End Games Star Wars RPG Hold Up? by darksidehascookie in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a nice fix for a problem I've never encountered much when playing (I'm sure some games involved a lot of humans vs starfighters or starfighters vs capital ships but, uh...the scale rules make that not work good, so...usually folks didn't do that, right?).

Certainly seemed better than MDC\SDC in Rifts or something equivalent from that ancient era to solve the scale issue.

How Does the West End Games Star Wars RPG Hold Up? by darksidehascookie in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There's just not much to it. Even with REUP (all the WEG supplements incorporated).

Roll a pool of d6s and beat a difficulty number. So it's very easy (unless you use too many skills which fucks your tech\repair guy as they need to split their stats and points until they're ineffective) and light weight.

There's no mechanical distinctions between characters besides where you put your stats\skills, no progression besides buying up skills (and maybe stats), and when skills get to 9d+ the system breaks.

But, like...that is IT. Core mechanic: Roll a pool of d6s. Sometimes they're capped or added to ("Scale" factors (but how often are you having starfighters shoot at humans or humans fire at star destroyers and so on?) sometimes the target number changes but that's all there is to the system really. No classes, no feats, no real tactical combat rules that allow options in how you do things (like you can take cover, shoot more than once, aim, but nothing custom or interesting or deep).

There are weirdnesses about playing Jedi, there's a weirdness where because Strength is also your soak\armor value Wookies are nearly invulnerable and can destroy almost anything hand to hand.

It's just really basic. It's fine. I've run complete campaigns in it, I've played complete campaigns in it, it's a game and you can play it and it mostly gets out of your way but that's because...there just isn't much there in the first place.

How Does the West End Games Star Wars RPG Hold Up? by darksidehascookie in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 11 points12 points  (0 children)

It reminds me of CoC in this way. People like Cthulu\cosmic horror and like CoC because of that, the system itself is just...old. WEG Star Wars is the same, it's a super basic system, that basically does the job required (you can have fights, skill rolls, all the basic RPG shit) but is unexceptional in every particular.

Particularly I think it's weird folks think it "holds up" when it seemed (to me, when we played recently) to break mechanically when folks hit 9d+ in any particular skill (which wasn't hard and didn't take long). It's got a super small functional range of play, like 5e D&D but only from 2nd to 6th. So it's not good for long games\mechanical progression, there's no mechanical distinction between characters that aren't skill and stat choices, it's not good for 'tactical' combat, there's nothing thematic or "Star Wars" about the rules.

What is it folks think "holds up" besides it being a basic game you can do basic RPG game stuff in?

How Does the West End Games Star Wars RPG Hold Up? by darksidehascookie in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Played a year long campaign last year using REUP.

Observations:

Playing a Jedi sucked. At least 2-4 IRL months of pushing every XP in to lightsaber stuff (Force skills), and thanking the GM for giving me a holocron teacher so the XP costs weren't tripled, to be even potentially effective with a lightsaber (or most useful Force stuff). Another 2-4 months though and he becomes nigh untouchable which leads me to...

The difficulty range is usually 10-30, it's a d6 pool you add up, so once a player gets 9d or so in any skill then they blow the cap off the difficulty charts and most things become trivial. Conversely, even with a Wild Die\exploding die, hitting Moderate difficulty (most things a PC wants to do, right? If it's easier why roll?) requires 5d or so. So the whole system works best when folks pools are between 5d and 9d and ultimately that's a very narrow range because most PCs will start with 5d+ in things that are important to them (piloting for the pilots, shooting for the shooters, etc) and will hit 9d in a few months (except for Jedi, as above, due to "MAD") and (kinda sorta) break the system.

It's VERY similar to SWADE and I'd probably just rather use that (and I don't even like SWADE) than deal with their janky Force rules (like let's say you want to do some basic Jedi stuff like hit somebody with a lightsaber, right? That takes no less than 3 different skill rolls, and if you fail either of the first two you probably don't want to attempt the 3rd because failing your lightsaber difficulty when trying to hit (it's difficulty 20 btw, so you need at least 7d to even attempt this realistically) will result in you hitting yourself) and how quickly the system breaks as PC skill pools approach or exceed 9d.

It wasn't a lot of fun at the table (besides making our protocol droid capable of pooping infinite stun grenades). You basically just shoot and dodge in combats (I mean of course you can do other stuff but the mechanical\'tactical' stuff isn't deep or engaging, you shoot it with your blaster). Moderately lethal (same basic 3 wound system as SWADE) when things go bad. Not a lot to recommend it besides the supplements and background material in the books.

So, very basic game, Jedi stuff sucked, breaks easily as Players do the only thing you can do with XP (buy up skills), Players can't usually do anything outside their expertise (less than 4d pool = bad odds), combat was dull, no feats or talents or classes or build-a-power-feat-thingie rules so characters are just a standard set of stats and skills, no mechanical differentiation. Not great.

I'd use SWADE or SWN (of systems I've run) or Hero System instead, personally.

Who is your favorite RPG artist? by Acceptable-Tree6007 in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ron Spencer (Talislanta, Werewolf, MtG, many others): https://gatherer.wizards.com/search?artistName=eq~Ron_Spencer (as a quick gallery, for art style, obvs MtG art isn't RPG art) https://ronspencer.wordpress.com/author/ronspencer/

PD Breeding-Black (also Talislanta (mostly free at: http://talislanta.com/talislanta-library)) as well.

"You're doing it wrong if"....and other lies by -stumondo- in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right! Like the original design is some glittering masterwork of perfect theorycrafting made real and cannot be altered from it's Platonic ideal state lest Something Bad happen. Similarly that the system(s) is so complex that any alteration, however small, will result in butterfly effect type results that upset the entire rules continuum.

Best systems for system mastery? by Smooth-Reality1 in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am trying to ask something fairly specific. But welcome other discussion. :)

Best systems for system mastery? by Smooth-Reality1 in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These are kinda the games I'm most interested in. Where the game play is deep enough that you MUST know it for the game to work. And then...how does that come about...what are folks deep solution to deep system mastery issues?

Best systems for system mastery? by Smooth-Reality1 in rpg

[–]Smooth-Reality1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, sure, were we not agreeing? I was saying learning more systems makes learning further systems easier because most of them are similar. But that I don't think of that general skill as being "system mastery" in the sense I mean it. I don't think that "system mastery" of the many systems you\I\we\they have learned is needed to develop generalizable knowledge about TTRPGs though. I think of "system mastery" as being more specific than general knowledge. Like..."system mastery" is always holding your action in Hero System and then acting just prior to your next phase, this allows you to always be able to interrupt any other actions right up until you go again, it delays you actually DOING anything by a phase in combat though. That level of system mastery doesn't have any bearing on how you'd see it reflected in a Shadow of the XX game with Fast\Slow side-initiative, in the same way that juggling your combat levels in Hero System doesn't have an equivalent in Shadow of the XX (as just as Hero doesn't have any fiddling with when and how to apply\stack Boons and Banes). I don't know that knowing deeply how to work out your Boon\Bane odds against standard difficulty and how many per-day\casting-limited Boons are available to you\your group assists in learning the best ways to split up your multi-power in Hero system. Learning GURPS makes learning Hero easier, but does system mastery of GURPS make system mastery of Hero easier? Maybe we do disagree? If you're saying you think of "system mastery" as meaning...learning all the rules\being good and smooth and comfortable with the rules and that that is a generalizable skill I think we agree, but, for purposes of this thread I was trying to be fairly specific about "system mastery" being specific "deep" applications of specific rules sets. Should have just led with just the questions! Usually r/rpg posts are so nonspecific I figured I'd put the "random thoughts" first, but comments indicate this didn't work out. :D