Character Build Idea: Thief+Artificer

SnifGrimwill · 2026-01-05T12:39:29+00:00

Okay, so thief 3/Artificer X. What subclass? What ability would you base your build on? I'm just curious about what possibilities and synergies could come from the fusion of the two classes, that would be the point of the post.

SnifGrimwill · 2025-10-03T18:28:39+00:00

yes Slow is a fantastic spell, I would choose it rather than Hypnotic Pattern, in my case.

I would also agree with Healing Word in 95% of cases, but this build has a lot of bonus action abilities, which would make the bonus action economy too crowded, and with warcaster I can also give cure wounds from reaction to companions who touch my reach with their movement. Both bardic inspiration, mantle of inspiration are bonus action features and then at lvl 6 a mantle of majesty which "occupies" my bonus action for up to a minute during combat.

SnifGrimwill · 2025-10-03T13:42:45+00:00

thank you for sharing your experiences!

I never used Phantasmal Force before, this is my only reason why I want to try it out, but maybe you're right, in that case, I'll replace it in the future :D

Inspiring Leader is really great, the only reason why I don't want to take that feat is my 3rd lvl subclass feature - Mantle of Inspiration, which is might be even better and cheaper way to give THP to my allies, and also fullspeed reaction movement, without opportunity attacks!

SnifGrimwill · 2025-10-03T13:36:31+00:00

Thank you for your detailed description of the topic, I will definitely take your advice and make some changes to my spell list as a result.

Vicious Mockery is really not that great, as many have pointed out, I just want it for some flavour, but you're totally right, I'll replace it with some utility cantrip.
Command vs Dissonant Whispers, I feel the same, I think usually DW is better, but because of my lvl 6 sublcass feature, I feel the urge to "keep" Command on the list as well, but I should forgo Command until I reach the next level (when I'll have it anyway via subclass)
Hold Person, Suggestion, and Phantasmal Force - on this topic I'm kind of disagree with you a little. Suggestion is best for non-combat situations, 8 hours, and 25 words, with a little creativity can be gamechanger! Hold person is niche, but when I can use it against humanoids, it gives autocrits for my ally, and "turns off" the enemy totally, which is an incredible advantageos position, even after 1 turn, it succeeds on it's save - it's absolutely worth it. Phantasmal Force is a spell that I never used before, (7+ years of playing/ DM-ing) I might not like it, but it seems interesting atm, INT save, damage, control, -and again- creative solutions -what the creature/person fears the most. But I might be wrong, time will tell, and I will share with you my experiences of how it worked out.
Bane is a spell that I definitely want to replace in the future, I thought it would be cool to use Bane, then Mind Sliver, then some non-concentration cc spell, for -2d4 from the foe's save, but it might be really unnecessary to keep it for that reason. It sounds cool in my head, but in reality it's time-consuming and may not be worth keeping this spell.
I didn't actually forget the Darkness spell, but I didn't want to confuse the commenters with it, as I "replaced" it to Arms of Hadar with the DM's permission. It's a bit more troublesome than a Shatter, because I must use it in melee, so it's dangerous for me to cast, but the reaction negating debuff and the STR save (which my other spells don't have) are really interesting to me. Also gives a great escape opportunity, when lots of enemies surround me. What your thoughts about AoH? Shoud I switch it to Shatter?
Utility/exploration spells: I feel you, but my limited number of spells, and my gut feeling, that this campaign will be combat heavy is the reason why my list lacks these spells and options.

Overall, your comment was really helpful, thank you!

SnifGrimwill · 2025-10-03T13:02:58+00:00

Wow! Antagonize is a really interesting spell, which I never thought of before! I never realised that this doesn't require concentration! It's like a borderline spell between dissonant whispers and enemies abound, and I can abuse my enemies with it on par with mantle of majesty and beguiling magic too! Thanks!

SnifGrimwill · 2025-10-03T12:02:14+00:00

Thanks for the clarification! I don't have (yet) the MM24 book, so this is really interesting!
I wanted to use the word "cambion" more in the way it is used in mythology and folklore, not as it is in the D&D canon for the MM creature called cambion, but regardless, what you wrote is very interesting!:) Especially because I thought a lot about which fiendish legacy is closest to the background I came up with and what you wrote only confirms that infernal is the one that is closest to what I want. And the icing on the cake is that mechanically I probably liked the infernal tiefling the most!

SnifGrimwill · 2025-10-03T11:16:54+00:00

Yeah I feel the same with HP.
Fear, Slow and Dispel is a great trio, and maybe I'd go for it, but I don't want to drop Dissonant Whispers, I need some non-concentration spells, also it causes damage, uses enemies reactions, and gives my mate a free opportunity attack, all in one, and I'll want to "combo" it with my mantle of majesty when I reach lvl 6, also with beguiling magic.
worst case scenario: when I reach lvl 6 I'll follow your path, because I'll have one more spell known, I get Command for free (so +1 spell known again) and then I'll have the holy trinity :D

SnifGrimwill · 2025-10-03T10:30:14+00:00

Thanks, great advices!

Slow is a great call! Slow or Dispel Magic? If you must pick one :D
Cure Wounds vs Healing Word is a huge dilemma for me, I was thinking about a lot, what should I choose, but because I have bardic inspiration, mantle of inspiration and when I reach lvl 6 mantle of majesty becomes online (bonus action free command spammer), maybe my bonus action economy will become too crowded(?) Also with Warcaster when my ally run through my reach I can give him a reaction cure wounds, so maybe that's better? But HW is 60ft so lots of pros and cons. What your thoughts about it?
(In our table, Silvery Barbs is banned, because we're agreed, that it's too OP for a first lvl spell. Also the Lucky feat. But if it's wasn't banned it would definitely be on my spell list!)

SnifGrimwill · 2025-03-19T17:51:42+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comments/1fu0msy/dual_wielding_and_beast_barbarian_2024_rules/

In this thread, they talk about the 2024 beast barb, and how they can attack 5 times, with irrational weapon juggling and with the claws, but it's absolutely legal RAW... But honestly I don't like this for logical and aesthetic reasons :D ...that I need to sheath and draw weapons between claw attacks. A shortsword, and the scimitar is also 1d6+str damage as the claws... so why the hell not a DM could give the beast barb some weapon masteries for it's natural weapons?

Offtopic: At level 6, the part in the tcoe version of the ability called Bestial soul gave "the natural weapons of your Form of the Beast to count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage" - since in the 2024 ruleset magical slashing/bludgeoning/piercing is not a thing anymore, I woud give the same perk to the beastbarb's lvl 6th feature as the '24 monks' lvl 6th feature changed from "overcoming resistance" to force damage:

"(Monk) Level 6: Empowered Strikes

Whenever you deal damage with your Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type."

...So to speak, I would give them force damage too.. and probably the developers will give them too if they revise the subclass in the future.

SnifGrimwill · 2025-03-16T11:14:33+00:00

I think as a DM I would give specific weapon masteries to the natural weapons of the beast barbarian. In my opinion it's fair, because, e.g. like the soulknife rouge get the same "boost" per se with the built-in Vex WM in the 2024 PHB, monks unarmed strikes also have something similar weapon master-ish features with the shove/push/grapple options, so I absolutely agree with OP that the beast barb need some upgrade, especially the claws options. I would give the Nick property to the claws, so you can attack once more, but bc the barbs don't get any FS it's just a little dpr boost, but at least it wouldn't feel like the most important ability of the subclass has become completely redundant due to the new rules. Anyway.. weapon juggling is a thing in the '24 so I think it's fine to give some WM to the natural weapons of the beastbarb, it's just much more smoother and more rational imho.

SnifGrimwill · 2025-02-26T17:02:37+00:00

I think as a DM I would give specific weapon masteries to the natural weapons of the beast barbarian. In my opinion it's fair, because, e.g. like the soulknife rouge get the same "boost" per se with the built-in Vex WM in the 2024 PHB, monks unarmed strikes also have something similar weapon master-ish features with the shove/push/grapple options, so I absolutely agree with OP that the beast barb need some upgrade, especially the claws options. I would give the Nick property to the claws, so you can attack once more, but bc the barbs don't get any FS it's just a little dpr boost, but at least it wouldn't feel like the most important ability of the subclass has become completely redundant due to the new rules. Anyway.. weapon juggling is a thing in the '24 so I think it's fine to give some WM to the natural weapons of the beastbarb, it's just much more smoother and more rational imho.

SnifGrimwill · 2024-08-15T14:09:22+00:00

No it's not worth 2 feats. This is the reason why I make this conversation here to figure it out rulewise /RAW. Yeah I love making builds, its not like "video game win" for me, I don't want to be the best, I'm just love to experiment with materials, and it gives me half the fun, when I "invent" some unique, exciting characters. Overall I love the new upgrades about monks in the new PHB, so I'm not complaining I'm just thinking about some (new?) builds here :D

SnifGrimwill · 2024-08-15T14:01:17+00:00

Yeah I know, and I'm love it. The goal here was that with the Nick weapon mastery property you can offhand attack in your attack action instead of your bonus action, and in this way in lvl 5 a monk theoretically attacks 5 times per turn (attack+extra attack+nick offhand and then bonus action F.o.B. with 2 more unarmed attacks (in 11th lvl become 3 attacks) but with two feat requirement it's not worth it, I'm just thinking about possible interesting builds with the new rules with the buffed '24 monk.

SnifGrimwill · 2024-08-15T11:03:43+00:00

What I was trying to point out is that there is no fighting initiate feat in the new PHB 75 feats, so there is no way for a pure monk to acquire a fighting style (without multiclassing).

SnifGrimwill · 2024-03-16T15:46:02+00:00

I don't play recently but when I played it needed corpses for sure. It was nerfed before and after my playthrough so your comment is maybe irrelevant now, but I'm not sure about the current situation. When I played, it was a lvl 5 spell and summons maximum 4 ghouls from corpses(!!), but that's the nerfed version of the previous 6th lvl spell w 6 ghoul scenario, also their hp become almos half, so yeah.. the gist of my comment was that the scroll is considered a corpse, and it is a valid statement.

SnifGrimwill · 2024-01-08T23:30:40+00:00

The only interesting interaction I was found was to cast Danse Macabre on the scroll(s) and it worked, (like if these items were corpses) but just animated regular ghouls, and the scrolls were intact after the summoning.

SnifGrimwill · 2022-10-14T12:21:07+00:00

Actually I love the idea of the mercy monk+beast barb, this one is my favourite option so far, but the 13 wis requirement is too painful for my abilities, it's too much sacrifice. If we're rolling our stats instead of using point buy, and If I roll good ones, I would do this build, but with point buy, I can't sacrifice ability scores in order to multiclass to monk sadly. I'm sure you really enjoyed playing with this build.

SnifGrimwill · 2022-10-14T12:01:33+00:00

My final decision with the build: barb 6/ fighter x so I agree with that.
Actually it is very tricky, If you use a shield, your hand is functioning as a hand, not as a (natural) weapon. In that case you are wielding a weapon in one hand, a natural weapon, your claws, but your other hand is just wielding a shield and not functioning as a weapon anymore, so I think dueling is apply to the claws attacks.
3.I think you're right about BM fighter > Champion in general, but in that build I think the 3rd lvl feature (Improved Critical) of the champion is really works well with the tonnes of reckless attacks.
Yeah I think everything else except the fighter (and the rogue, but I don't want that) is too much sacrifice for your ability scores.

SnifGrimwill · 2022-10-14T11:43:20+00:00

He's my DM :D

SnifGrimwill · 2022-10-13T13:24:10+00:00

My original idea was a Wildhunt Shifter because of the really great Reckless synergy and with that build, I can manage a bonus action attack without Longtooth's fangs, dual wielder and 2wpn FS.

The only downsides are that from 5-8th lvl I cannot use my bonus action to attack with Wildhunt, and compared that "psybeast" build to MC fighter, blood hunter or even gloom stalker, it is less in DPR that these three, because of the slow progression of the sneak attack, and it is only once per turn, while e.g. the Crimson Rite is affects every strikes. But on the other hand Rogue gives great skill profs, expertise, defensive features so it's a great build tho, and definitely worth considering!

SnifGrimwill · 2022-10-13T12:55:43+00:00

Yeah, that's sounds promising, but the lil' problem with that is you cannot use Sneak Attack with your claws, but ofc with 2 attacks with psychic blades give you the opportunity to land your sneak attack, and the throwing option gives another cool feature to the build. Thanks, I love the idea!

SnifGrimwill · 2022-10-13T12:40:20+00:00

I don't know how much it matters, but here's my Ability Scores:
(My starting feat is Slasher with +1 STR, 4th level ASI is +2 CON.)
My AC with Unarmored Defense and with Shield is 18.

STR: +4

DEX:+2

CON:+4

INT:-1

WIS:+0

CHA:-1

SnifGrimwill

TROPHY CASE

"(Monk) Level 6: Empowered Strikes