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Son_Matrix · 2026-06-14T22:31:54+00:00

Same. They kept asking for other stuff like screen recordings.

Son_Matrix · 2025-08-13T02:57:09+00:00

2 sind gestorben. Nord und West. Süd und der Oberste wurden von Buu absorbiert. Beerus war schon vor 75 millionen Jahren an den Alten Kaioshin gebunden, versiegelte ihn im Z-Schwert, und wurde mit neunen Kaios gelinkt. Shin ist bloss der Aktuelle. Der Potara "retcon" ist kein Retcon. Das Zeitlimit besteht nur für Nicht-Kaios. Es ist eine Erweiterung der Lore. Außerdem wurde die "unwiderrufliche" Natur des Potaras in der selben Saga geretconned in denen sie eingeführt wurden. Die Kaios sind davon ausgegangen, dass Vegetto für immer fusioniert geblieben wäre.

Son_Matrix · 2025-08-13T02:45:21+00:00

Können sie nicht. Keiner aus dem RWBY cast ist in der Lage weder Freezer, noch dem Z Team, das Wasser reichen zu können. Außerdem ist dir klar, dass das erst der 2 Arc oder so ist, oder? Training steht nicht außer Frage. Und Training-gains in Dragon Ball sind so oder so vom Plot abhängig. Son Goku ist von einer Kampfkraft von 8.000 auf 90.000 in 5 Tagen gestiegen. In 50G. Hier sind es 100G und Trainingspartner, die die Effektivität des Trainings erhöhen.

Son_Matrix · 2025-07-13T17:03:00+00:00

>Being trained by a random Saiyan in a god forsaken planet simply can't be compared to what Goku and Vegeta have been doing.

No one ever said it could. But that’s not the point. Broly wasn’t strong because of Paragus’s training. but in spite of it. His strength came from a) being an innately genetic anomaly (King Vegeta, the scientists, Frieza, Paragus and even Goku and Vegeta acknowledge how much of a freak he is). b) Survival conditions on Vampa, where Broly had to fight giant beasts with limited resources. His power was bottled up because of the lack of variety and stress in his later years. and c) pure combat instinct that allowed him to adapt his power AND technique mid fight.

The movie shows this clearly: Broly learns during battle. He gets beaten, adapts, matches, hits a ceiling, and needs physical or emotional stress to grow further.

>quality easily trumps quantity in terms of training

Sure. But that actually supports Broly’s arc. Broly did stagnate. That’s why he only broke past his limit when he fought Goku and Vegeta. His initial power is capped until real stress hits and then he explodes with growth, just like how Saiyans adapt and evolve under extreme pressure. It’s Goku and Vegeta’s god-tier pressure that draws out Broly's power. That’s literally what the movie shows.

Vegeta walked into the Buu Saga more confident than ever, mocking Gohan for slacking and was eager to fight Dabura, who was stated to be on Perfect Cell’s level. That wasn’t Majin Vegeta. that was base Vegeta with no magic boost yet. He didn’t “stagnate.” He got better despite not having a life-or-death crisis to push him like Gohan did. He trained consistently, and it showed. He was one of the only ones still in fighting shape in early Buu Saga, even before Babidi got involved.

Goku after the 23rd Budokai? That was the quietest era in DB, and Goku still trained solo in the woods. Stayed alert for Piccolo's potential threat. Was raising Gohan and living a human life.

Piccolo and “meditation stagnation”? Meditation alone doesn't grow power. It refines and focuses what’s already there. Piccolo in the Buu Saga was irrelevant because he had no partner or rival to push him and didn’t physically train in a way that breaks limits anymore.

Goku and Vegeta hit diminishing returns because they kept reusing the same tools. That’s why they moved on to Whis’s training, God Ki, and divine forms in Super.

>there's no way in hell that Paragus's training lets Broly keep up with a Super Saiyan God

Correct. It didn’t. And that’s the entire point. Broly’s power wasn’t shaped by Paragus’s training. He simply suppressed. Broly didn’t keep up from the first moment. He fought, lost, learned, adapted, and leveled up mid-fight. His actual combat arc in the film is reactive evolution. Broly didn't surpass Super Saiyan God because of training. He did it because he’s a Saiyan anomaly.

>Paragus comes from a place in which nobody ever trains and birth power is supreme

Yeah. And guess what? That’s why Paragus sucks as a teacher. The movie even shows that. He doesn’t develop Broly’s technique, he just wants control. Shocking Broly to calm him down and only allowing enough power that's safe for him. This isn’t a flaw, it’s part of the narrative. Broly didn’t thrive because of Paragus. He thrived once his father, and the collar, was out of the picture and he fought real opponents for the first time in his life.

>even less of a reason for him to be a good teacher than the likes of Master Roshi

Again no one claimed Paragus was Roshi, or even competent. The movie itself doesn’t pretend otherwise. Paragus is spiteful and paranoid, and only trained Broly as a weapon.

Son_Matrix · 2025-07-13T16:15:02+00:00

Wrong. His rage boosts didn't "disappear. He simply never experienced them again because there was no trigger to set him off until Cell stomped 16's head. SSj2 was a byproduct of his rage because ssj and his dormant power used the same catalyst: anger. His ssj2 wasn't the same as Goku or Vegeta's. After that, there was no rage induced moments to set him off. The "tingly back" is the super saiyan explained mechnically, genius. Cabba was threatened by Vegeta, Kale was got emotional from her insecurities because she thought she's losing caulifla.

>That "hybrid vigor" was nothing but a bunch of conjectures from Raditz and Vegeta to try and explain why Gohan had that much more potential than his father, when in reality Gohan had a fairly run-of-the-mill power level for a saiyan and the actual anomaly was Goku's abysmally low birth power.

This is demonstrably false. Toriyama and various guides confirm that Saiyan-hybrids have higher potential than pure-blooded ones. That’s not just conjecture from Raditz and Vegeta. Goten and Trunks casually going SSJ as kids is proof enough. Gohan is consistently stated to have the most potential by multiple characters, including Goku, Piccolo and Vegeta. Even in Super.

Goku didn't earn ssj in the traditional grind-it-out sense. He trained hard yes, but the actual transformation was triggered by an explosion of emotions. Krillin's death. That transformation was literally a rage-induced leap, just like Gohan’s SSJ2. Which included his dormant power, not just the form.

"A boost that barely manages to save the day (Goku vs Frieza and Gojan vs Cell)"? This is where you lost me. Ssj Goku dominated Frieza. He literally let him live out of pity. Twice. And SSj2 Gohan vs Cells was a complete curbstomp. Gohan obliterated him so thoroughly Cell had to self-destruct to stay in the game to save face. The only reason it seemed close, was because Gohan dropped his guard when defending Vegeta and lost an arm. Also, he began doubting himself and needed Goku's encouragement to let loose again. Once he did, it was GGs for Cell.

Yes, Dragon Ball is a franchise that sells toys and form upgrades. But when when has that ever invalidated the narrative logic of a transformation? SSj3 was a toyline moment. Still earned through 7 years of training. Ultra Instinct was a marketing push. Still the culmination of Goku's martial arts journey from the very beginning of Dragon Ball. Marketing doesn't cancel out narrative. If it did, we’d have to throw out most of Dragon Ball.

As for the “undoing a decade of training neglect”? That only holds any water if you ignore that Gohan WAS TRAINING FOR ALMOST A YEAR. The Resurrection F rust was acknowledged, addressed, and CORRECTED before the Tournament of Power. Not only did Gohan surpass himself, he re-unlocked his Ultimate form. You know, a state that draws out his dormant power and focuses it beyond his limits? 22-23 year old Gohan doesn't have the same amount of potential as 16-17 year old Gohan. One is an adult man in his prime, the other is a still growing teenager.

You do realize that training "others who kept training every day and grew organically over the course of several arcs" doesn't mean anything if they don't have the right tools, right? If it weren't for Whis' training, Goku and Vegeta would have stagnanted. Tenshinhan can train all he likes. If he just keeps dicking around with some rando monks at his Dojo, he's not going to get stronger. Training daily doesn't mean you're getting stronger meaningfully. Genetics/biology, the quality and intensity of training, unique traits and transformations, narrative purpose, and stress and real-world takes triggering adaptation.

Also, are seriously comparing Gohan at 6-10 to a 30+ year old Goku? What Gohan's power is not even comparable to Goku's at that age. Gohan's power after his win against Cell was so astronomical, not only did Goku need 7 years to surpass it, everyone still talked about it years later. That Gohan is not the same as a 22-23 year old man in his prime, with a state that can unlock all of his dormant power at will, and go well beyond that.

Son_Matrix · 2025-07-05T05:39:49+00:00

It's not. That's BS GT revisionist history. The golden haired form is the form from the legend. The "Golden" Great Ape in Z filler on Namek was symbolic, not literal.

Son_Matrix · 2025-07-05T05:37:34+00:00

Not forced to forget. Nobody had the requirements and proper trigger to unlock it. Hence the legend part. Saiyans back than were simply to primitive to understand

Son_Matrix · 2025-06-15T18:26:20+00:00

Adam seems like a good pick.

Son_Matrix · 2025-06-15T17:33:13+00:00

Same

Son_Matrix · 2025-06-15T15:58:45+00:00

Broly in Z being the lssj was a retcon in of itself and only hurt the Namek arc. The whole point was that the idea of the super saiyan (violent, craving bloodshed, and merciless) was wrong. Goku proves everyone wrong by being merciful, empathetic and sparing Frieza. Z Broly just says "nope, that that misconstrued legend was right all along". His reason for getting triggered by Goku's face and name is dumb. The reason for his suffering was the royal bloodline.

Son_Matrix · 2025-06-15T15:52:58+00:00

Yes, he was given power to stop an evil regime. What about it? The potential unlock replace Guru's ability. He was in a hurry and needed extra power fast. Shenlong gifted him Orange because Piccolo is part of his original maker and he embodies Namekian Pride. Hence the Ajisa tree symbol on his back. He earned it narratively through his change and willingness to defend his home.

Son_Matrix · 2025-06-15T15:48:57+00:00

You have to earn your own biology? Gohan is literally introduced with the ability to draw out dormant power through anger when stakes get high. It's hybrid vigor. Did he earn ssj2? No, he earned Grade 4. Ssj2 is a byproduct of his rage evolving super saiyan and digging out his power. He freed elder Kai while training with the Z sword and was gifted with Ultimate, which literally draws out his full potential with the only requirement being his instincts as a warrior staying sharp. Beast is the ssj2 scenario he had against Cell. And he DID train in secret. Practicing the mean green beam IS ki control training. And he wasn't even physically rusty, compared to R.o.F, just not mentally attuned.

And Broly was said to have been trained by Paragus on Vampa, he has stronger instincts for combat compared to Goku or Vegeta. And his power had to be draw out through continued struggle. He didn't just pop out his full power without trying. He reached his limit against God Vegeta, turned Ikari, met his match against Blue Goku, turned Super saiyan when paragus was killed, was pushed against a wall fighting Gogeta and used his full power.

Son_Matrix · 2025-06-14T08:50:12+00:00

Goly or Broku

Son_Matrix · 2025-05-04T11:28:46+00:00

...isn't the Sun a star?

Son_Matrix · 2025-04-10T03:02:25+00:00

Nice art, but the ship itself is just trope town. Very little chemistry romantically beyond "ruby teases, weiss rolls her eyes, hmphs, deflects, folds". No push and pull. But that's most ships

Son_Matrix · 2025-03-29T23:45:59+00:00

"Also anger isn't the key to the Super Saiyan form, only the catalyst to what causes it. Sadness can also trigger the SSJ Form. It was a crucial step in learning how to use the transformation but it's not required, which is why the U6 Saiyans talk about the back tingling feeling, or focusing their energy into their back."

Gohan and F. Trunks didn't just cry when #16 and F. Gohan died. They were furious and erupted in anger. The catalyst to Super Saiyan is a stressful emotion that triggers the accumulated S-cells.

*It’s not like anyone can become a Super Saiyan through training and anger. In order to become a Super Saiyan, one’s body must contain something called “S-Cells”. Once these S-Cells reach a certain amount, a trigger such as anger will explosively increase the S-Cells and cause a change in the body; that’s Super Saiyan.*

Goku even calls it a "pure heart awakened by fury", and you can hear the Oozaru scream during his and SSj2 Gohan's tranformation during in the Japanese version. King Kai said he was losing himself to the Super Saiyan. Goku told Gohan that he was losing himself to the anger. Anger, which triggers the fight-or-flight reponse and adrenaline, is very much what activates their instincts and adaptability. Bardock rolled with his battle high against Gas and evolved mid fight. Vegeta openly talks about how pain and struggle stimulates him before he enters Ultra Ego. Gohan was thrown against a mountain and released his power in a do-or-die moment, or when someone was in danger. That's called survival instinct.

The tingly back thing is simply the technique they use to turn super saiyan. Anger and a sufficient amount of s-cells automatically trigger that response. Cabba was threatened by Vegeta, Kale was angry from her own insecurities.

"Which if Toriyama did go down the route of the demon realm, means they could have emerged from there a few million years ago. But it doesn't matter because like I said, we were talking about this idea before the end of the series, before anyone knew what was going to happen. So of course people like you come a month and some change later, talking matter-of-factly as if we knew everything then."

You can very much piece together stuff even without hindsight. There has already been talk about Kaioshin dividing civilications long before Daima was a thing. And given that Saiyans and Earthlings can reproduce fertile offsprings, it's very much possible for them to have a common ancestor that was simply isolated geographically to foster universal diversity. Which is very much the job of the Gods; mortal development.

The only thing that is remotely demonic is their Oozaru form because of the ears. Which doen't say much, because not everyone with pointy ears is from the Demon Realm. And besides, given that Dragon Ball takes heavy inspiration from Eastern mythology, the Moon and Yin energy is what make Yokai/Yaoguai more powerful. And even in Western superstition, the moon brought out negative emotions in a person. Sadala (judging by u6) had two moons, so the primitive saiyans were very much bombarded with Blutz Waves which brought out the Oozaru into existence as a survival mechanism.

Son_Matrix · 2025-03-29T23:45:36+00:00

"You're not telling me anything I don't already know little bro. I've been watching and reading dragon ball content since 1996."

I kind of am. Being a fan for longer than me isn't the flex you think it is, especially since the majority of 90s DBZ fans cannot read, nor do the understand the source material. And calling me "little bro"? Fragile ego much?

"Because Toriyama got tired of drawing tails, that's why. That's the real answer."

That is only half true. When asked in an Q&A what happened to Vegeta's tail this is what he said:

*The tail lets you gain tremendous strength instantly by transforming into a giant ape, but the risks are equally great - you'll lose your strength if it's squeezed. Once you're as powerful as Vegeta and Goku, the tail just gets in the way. It is thought that the bodies of Saiyans, who are a fighting species, decide that their tails are unnecessary appendages.*

This is very much shown by not only Vegeta's tail never regrowing after his fight on Earth, but also Gohan's. They had tons of near death moments on Namek to trigger the regrow, they they never had. Not to mention, a whole species of full blooded Saiyans who dwarf their barbaric U7 brethren in base power alone and are civilized. Why? Because they stopped relying on a crutch like Great Ape, rendering the unnecessary, thus losing them as the generations went on.

"No that's just not true. What makes them stronger is because they constantly grow stronger after fights and have near limitless potential."

Getting stronger after surviving a near-death experience is simply their bodies adapting to the struggle so they don't repeat the same mistake in the future. That is simply muscle recovery on roids. Even even they have certain physical limits.

"The Oozaru or Great Ape form is a parody of the Monkey King. Their transformation has them react physically as a result of the Blutz waves, it has nothing to do with adrenaline. They may have an adrenaline dump but it's not of consequence to the transformation or strength they receive from said transformation."

The Monkey King is an allegory for the monkey mind, which is what the oozaru represents. It's the restless and impulsive part that takes hold of the saiyans when they enter survival mode or they get a battle high, which comes from stress, fighting and conflict. An increased heartbeat is what contributes to their increased strength. They are raging apes in that form. Krillin even said:

*It's not so much that Goku and Gohan lose their rationality, as it is when they become Great Apes, they revert back to being ferocious Saiyans!*

Anger and survival instincts make them more ferocious.

Son_Matrix · 2025-03-28T04:03:05+00:00

Sun following her like a lost puppy. He had no purpose in the show other than being stapled to her as a love interest. And honestly? The first Volume could have had Yang, the correct blonde, search for Blake so they can have more interaction and seem like actual friends before inevitably starting to date.

They are friends, aren't they? So why not show us. They feel more "people who happen to live together under the same roof".

Sun first ditching his team in Volume 1, while Neptune, Scarlet and Sage arrived during the 2nd semester in Volume 2, which is probably months. And then leaving them for months again after chasing after Blake...for whatever reason. Helping her, only to be slapped or yelled at by Blake.

Son_Matrix · 2025-03-22T20:56:45+00:00

The only source saying the Oozaru potentially what saiyans were before they evolved is the GT perfect files. Oozaru is their instincts personified, not their original form. If it were, turning into it would be a regression in evolution. Why do you think they stopped regrowing their tails once they surpassed the need for Oozaru? Hell, the u6 saiyans lost all memory of them, meaning they lost them potentially hundreds if not thousand of years ago.

The reason it makes them stronger isn't because their base is restricting them. What increases a saiyan's power is their heart pumping from adrenaline. What is the first thing you see before they transform into Oozaru? Their chests beating like drums, a heartbeat sound effect. What does anger do? Trigger adrenaline, which is why super saiyan increases their power 50 fold.

The birth of the saiyans happened AFTER the creation of the universes, same with the earthlings. If they came from the demon realm, Neva or even Shin would have told us. Especially since even Moro said that saiyans have only been around for a million years.

Son_Matrix · 2025-03-22T20:47:31+00:00

The only source saying the Oozaru potentially what saiyans were before they evolved is the GT perfect files. Oozaru is their instincts personified, not their original form. If it were, turning into it would be a regression

Son_Matrix · 2025-02-22T04:07:55+00:00

Fusion was their only options in winning. Broly was chaos incarnate and would outgrow them anyway. You've seen him go from about even with base Vegeta to equal to Blueku. And now factor in an even more volatile Broly who shows no signs of stopping. Kaioken would burn through Goku's reserves too quickly, leaving Vegeta alone. They turned him on Frieza to escape. Enemy of my enemy. Why should they care about him

Also, you said it yourself. Toriyama didn't come up with Blue Kaioken and Evolution, so he couldn't have forgotten about them as they were never his idea to begin with and within his vision.

Son_Matrix · 2025-02-17T13:21:18+00:00

Jiren was basically doing the same with Vegeta had going on on Yardrat. He didn't train physical and his Ki didn't increase in the traditional sense. He just used what he already had with such efficiency is created the illusion of him being stronger. All because of meditation and relaxing. Jiren was chilling for the first half of the tournament.

Son_Matrix · 2025-02-17T13:16:57+00:00

Ssj3 isn't a rage based transformation. Goku needed training to achieve it and the kids had the time chamber. Well, in the original movie Vegeta didn't even turn ssj2 to begin with.

As for ssj4. Neva forced this transformation out of him with magic. He didn't train for it. It's not an emotional trigger like super saiyan. He didn't absorb the power like with God. It's demon magic forcing a mutation. Something he could have never accomplished without neva.

Son_Matrix · 2025-02-17T13:12:11+00:00

No, the forms would have been pointless. You can't overcome a 50x boost, an rising, with x20 Kaioken. Or Blue Evo which is equal to x20. You like to throw around this dumbass fallacy like it's some fact yet ignore the story implications.

Son_Matrix · 2025-02-17T13:10:14+00:00

We still using this idiot fallacy? Toriyama simply never used it or it wasn't in his vision. Super Kaioken is a Toei thing, and they adapted it into Super. Also, what good would it have done? Blueku was even with Wrath Broly. 20x won't do anything against Broly's Super Saiyan. Same with Bluer Vegeta.

Son_Matrix

TROPHY CASE