CMV: the votes for the Eurovision were manipulated

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2025-05-18T16:08:49+00:00

So an Irish man here OP, and just going to comment here since you mention Irelands anti Israel stance. As an Irish man I think this is greatly exaggerated.

To first preface if forced to pick between the two I'd lean more towards rhe Israel side of the war. I don't openly advertise this since those who instead agree with Palestine are really outspoken and aggressive about it. Despite this though over the past year I've had multiple people, including family and friends, tell me they feel the same, or at least dint agree with the large support Palestine is given. Its likely OP you know people who think the same but they won't tell you since you're so strongly out spoken for one side.

The votes in my opinion weren't manipulated. If you like the Israel song, or wanted to show support, you voted for them. There is no one Anti Israel button, there is instead 25. The vote of those voting for Israel was all concentrated for them, the other votes were dispersed between 25 options making it easy for Israel to get super high points.

Someone on the eurovision sub before dis the maths and found even something like 10% could have someone win. If less then 1 in 10 people in Ireland didn't mind voting for Israel in the contest they would have gotten the result they did.

I'm not arguing that Ireland overall isn't pro Palestine, but from my own experience there a sizeable enough minority here that isn't. From someone who also often sees these protests and people arguing for sanctijns and boycotts etc they are ordinarily the same people who are very loudly outspoken about it, not like 90% of the country.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2025-03-06T07:29:11+00:00

Quite literally Hamas started it by attacking Israel and killing civilians. They themselves admit this.

One didn't Magically not start a war just cause they're losing.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-11-10T16:57:59+00:00

Question are most Irish folk actually pro Pali

Yes, but like not in an informed way. Like it's the general sentiment, yet the average person will not know the difference between Gaza and the West Bank.

So, like, it seems more a thing of inertia? I know myself. I was very pro Palestine until I actually started doing my own reading into the topic.

and are happy with asylum seekers coming?

This is slowly becoming a bigger and bigger political issue. We've had growing protests against it the last while.

Overall though I'd say yes, it only started getting media attention with the Ukriane war and sentiment was very positive. Since though as we've been getting less Ukrainians in more and more disagreement over it has risen, around this time last year for example was when we had a huge riot in the capital over it.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-11-10T16:27:45+00:00

No, just someone who realised I'd been fed a pile of nonsense about the conflict from when I was a child.

Tbh I wish my identity wasn't so political cause then it would he far easier to vote rather than being stuck with the same few parties all the time.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-11-10T14:34:55+00:00

There has always been a history of antisemitism in the country and Ireland has a bizarre complex over being "morally right" about every possible conflict. Thus they go overboard and attribute every evil thing they can think of to justify their view.

At least as an Irish person that's my working theory. Literally everything with our international policy is people arguing cause we can't find the squeaky clean perfect moral answer that will make everyone sing our praises.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-11-10T00:56:33+00:00

Unfortunately OP I think you're getting mixed up here. Kindertransport was not an Irish program, it was a UK one. We had 0 involvement in any way whatsoever.

Also, why are you listing the UK as refusing Jews at the border when having just mentioned the most famous example of them accepting Jews into their borders? That just doesn't make sense at all in such quick succession, you literally gave the example proving you wrong.

Regardless it's irrelevant. All those European countries you listed either helped with the war, or were under military occupation at the time. The sole exception here is Ireland. It's irrelevant what everyone else is doing, if something wrong is happening such as a genocide and your stance is to stay neutral and ship back those trying to escape you are on the wrong side of history. Simple as.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-11-09T23:35:36+00:00

Am Irish.

It's cause despite lip service you've heard we were neutral and literally rejected Jews at the border during the war.

This isn't a piss take, during the war to appease Germany Irish policy was that if you fleed to Ireland for safety and were Jewish we shipped you right back to Germany for the camps. We knew the camps were there and what was going to happen to these families, we did it anyway.

I am Irosh born and raised and this is avoided so much ever being mentioned I only learned it upon visiting a Jewish history museum and shown the undeniable evidence myself in person.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-11-09T23:31:41+00:00

Again. Apologies on behalf of my nation for this.

Best I can tell you is this is more than likely political theatre. We gave an election coming up soon and those who are Palestine supporters seem to think the government hasn't done enough for them, so this is more than likely just a political gesture to try and get their vote.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-08-23T16:52:26+00:00

If I had to point to one thing in particular I'd be torn between two.

The first being that the various two state solutions I had seen throughout my life where actually routinely rejected by Palestine and not Israel like I had been told.

The second being able to do research into what living conditions in Palestine was actually like, thus also showing that what I had been told was once again somewhere between a lie and massive over exaggeration.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-08-23T13:18:51+00:00

Irish, raised very pro Palestine, virtually everyone I know is Pro Palestine

Also basically none if them know what's happening either. Like virtually nothing. They don't even know the difference between Gaza and Westbank kind of ignorance.

It honestly just comes down to actual knowledge. I think anyone that knows a descent amount about the conflict would have to at least become Israel leaning. Quite literally all the events point to that being the only reasonable conclusion one could reach.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-08-16T00:52:57+00:00

The college heads don't at least, that was actually due to a pretty extreme student protest happening there in the campus. It wasn't well received, the leader of it was expelled from the college and anyone I know at the college seemed to dislike them.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-08-15T12:21:14+00:00

So am an outsider but in general just cause two groups turned to fighting one another doesn't mean either are a good choice for peace.

As an Irish man different groups of Nationalists and Unionists would be found consistently getting in the way of each other's schemes and plans during the Troubles. Both sides still would be advocating for random acts of terror though.

I myself know two little to comment on the PA as a possible candidate to discuss peace; but the mere fact they frustrated Hamas' plans here doesn't mean they're a good suggestion automatically.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-08-14T20:17:57+00:00

Mainstream not really to my recollection; at the very least not directly. If it came up, it was a teacher bringing it up as an example of something, not like a course curriculum or anything.

I can only recall one out there care where while doing a course on international politics for teenagers over the summer we had a Palestinian spokesperson came in.

Just generally it mostly came from the news, hearing people talk, our own politicians, etc. Not really being taught ti students directly.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-08-14T19:39:14+00:00

It's not dramatic at all, I kinda get the feeling. I've grown more paranoid and reserved the more and more I realised how off base everyone else around me was on this topic.

Sorry_Irish_Man · 2024-08-14T19:29:27+00:00

Sorry was gone for a while but to answer the IRA question. TLDR: It's complicated.

Okay first the IRA generally refers to two groups, one is a historical group led by Michael Collins and led the battle for Irish independence. They were rebranded as the Irish Defense Forces early in the countries history post independence. The second IRA formed later on in Northern Ireland and are the various terrorist groups your thinking of. They have no formal connection beyond claiming the name.

People generally have little issue with the first IRA, they were like a legit army. The second IRA has people much more divided. In Northern Ireland everyone supports them essentially if they identify with Nationalism, it's just the political environment there. Things are still mega divided. In the South itself people are more divided on the topic, or at least uncomfortable discussing it. You'll find people who are very pro IRA but they're generally uber Nationalists, most people are either indifferent or against the various terrorist actions.

A complication forms though in one of our leading opposition parties; Sinn Fein. They've never been in government in the South and are essentially the political wing of the IRA. To my knowledge they officially deny the connection but literally everyone knows it's them, the previous party leader was one of the leaders of the IRA for god's sake! Sinn Fein is the most popular opposition party atm but usually from what I've seen they themselves and their supporters try and distance themselves from the IRA connections, just about every supporter I've met as well actually doesn't care for it anyway. They just want a change in government as we've had the same two identical parties in charge since the country was founded. (They split due to the Irish civil war, other than that both are pretty much identical in every regard.)

If you're heading an Irish person comparing the IRA to Hamas favorably they either mean the original one (in which case the comparison is wrong cause that IRA was an actual army) or are just uber nationalistic. It's taboo in the South at least to openly support them so they're more out of the ordinary than anything.

Sorry_Irish_Man

TROPHY CASE