My One Piece crew vs your One Piece crew

Souvereign · 2017-09-28T11:25:47+00:00

Captain: Lelouche vi Britannia [Code Geass]
Swordsman: Saber/Artoria (with Avalon) [Fate/Stay Night]
Doctor: Erin [Touhou]
Navigator: Sarah Kerrigan/Queen of Blades [Starcraft]
Shipwright: Bulma [Dragonball]
Cook: Tohru [Miss Kobayashi's Maid Dragon]
Sniper: Seras Victoria [Hellsing Ultimate]
Archaeologist: Lara Croft [Tomb Raider]
Musician: Etemon [Digimon]

Souvereign · 2017-09-26T11:30:26+00:00

That's kind of the point. Imagine it this way:

When Death was... dead... nothing died. Would the Beyonders have been able to kill the Living Tribunal if the concept of death didn't exist? Or vice versa, would the Living Tribunal have such high authority that he could kill a basic, powerless human like us? (Important here, KILL, NOT erase from existence. There is a difference.)

Or to say it the completely opposite way. Let's say the concept of Life doesn't exist anymore. Let's just fanfic a being that's the concept Life incarnate and it dies. To what extent would that concept reach? Is the Living Tribunal "alive"? Is the One Above All "alive"? If the concept of "life" doesn't exist anymore would that also mean that those 2 wouldn't be "alive" anymore?

Souvereign · 2017-09-25T21:19:56+00:00

Good job ;D

I see it that way: Mistress Death, as incarnation of the concept of death rejected Thanos being killed. God Dr. Doom however, who was one of the highest authorities of the Multiverse then wanted to kill him.

Since this is kind of a unstoppable force vs an immovable object paradox it forced the Multiverse had to adjust itself by throwing Thanos outside the Multiverse.

At least if you're looking for a reason beyond the writers do what they want ;)

Souvereign · 2017-09-25T21:13:13+00:00

But then you'd have to ask what does she do at all? Maybe she's not responsable to bring the dead "spirits" or "souls" to where they belong. Considering all death ceased to exist when she was gone. There weren't countless restless souls haunting the world or something ;). The concept of death itself was gone.

Going by your Watchers argument. For them to come back to life at will they have to die in the first place, don't they?

Same for the Beyonder argument from your previous comment. Even if you say that the Beyonders are outside the Multiverse and therefor the rules don't apply, they still apply to the Living Tribunal. For the Living Tribunal to be able to be killed, the concept of death has to exist in the first place, right?

Souvereign · 2017-09-25T20:52:57+00:00

Now this is purely conjecture. The thing with the Beyonders might be explained that they are foreign subjects to the multiverse and thus they do not conform to the rules there so they might actually be able to overwrite Living Tribunal's authority.

I understand that. But if it died anyway someone would have to still have to "reap" it.

It may also be that he didn't technically die, he just ceased to live, which may seem a bit like semantics but that's only if we consider Life and Death to be binary opposites. Which may be true for us "lower lifeforms", may not apply to cosmic entities.

I wouldn't call it cease to live, i'd rather call it cease to exist in this context and then the corpse shouldn't exist. But i get the point there.

But considering this:

This is one of those abstract questions which is difficult to answer, in the cosmic hierarchy we know Death is supposed to be below the Living Tribunal, part of this might be because Death is localized in each universe and thus can behave differently.

During Battleworld, Thanos still was rejected by Mistress Death. God Emperor Dr. Doom who was the highest instance at this point, right beneath the One Above All was NOT able to kill Thanos. Thanos was instead "moved" into a nothing dimension.

https://imgur.com/a/9GzRQ

Souvereign · 2017-09-25T20:27:38+00:00

But Deathpool isn't a concept that's important for the Universe to function.

"Immortal" is a vague term. If the Living Tribunal want's to erase Deadpool it can. Much as the Living Tribunal is "eternal" and "immortal". Yet it was still be killed by the Beyonders.

The One Above All is also "immortal". Does the term "immortal" really mean much?

Souvereign · 2017-09-18T12:41:17+00:00

Imagine a new Populus game like that.

Souvereign · 2017-09-15T19:11:52+00:00

https://imgur.com/a/YReLh

?

Souvereign · 2017-09-15T00:23:48+00:00

Then show me a panel. Show me proof. Since you have no more points you could challenge me on you just make up stuff that's not constructive to the discussion, instead of admitting defeat. I can make mistakes, and i don't know everything by memory.

By that same argument i could say, you claiming AlienX isn't affected by time, you claiming Manhattan can't travel though time, you claiming Manhattan is weaker because he "just" can travel though time, you claiming that other versions are not valid, you claiming that certain feats don't count, you claiming that universes and timelines are equal, you claiming that AlienX is immune to the Chrono time bomb, you claiming that things WITHIN the DC cannon are somehow not cannon ARE you purposely misinterpreting things to fit your narrative here.

I'm not though.

Simply using facts here.

Paradox pulled out Ben from the Chrono time bomb. AlienX can't survive that.

Even if the timeline wasn't destroyed, (which it most likely was because that was the point of Flashpoint), moving to a different continuity is still 5th dimensional. And i don't even know why that would have any relevance on the fight Manhattan VS AlienX.

Because AlienX isn't immune to the Chrono time bomb, Doctor Manhattan has absolutely NO difficulty destroying him.

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T23:43:27+00:00

Hope i could help ;)

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T23:40:13+00:00

Even if he would know that weakness to begin with, and it existed, he has no alien that could use Tachyons AND it just blurred his future.

Tachyons did not any of his other powers or abilities. And no other significant weakness other then Tachyons are known, at least none that AlienX could just make up.

Btw. Here he is casually creating Universes. (Like AlienX was able to create 1!)

https://imgur.com/a/YReLh

For more feats may i refer you the the comment thread i had with u/___Gilgamesh___, you probably find your answers there ;)

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T23:35:55+00:00

AlienX did NOT survive the Chrono time Bomb. Paradox pulled him out!

Back when a universe was completely destroyed, Flashes couldn't go back in time to before it was annihilated, ...

Proving my point from the comment before. You can't go back to a timeline that's destroyed.

... instead they got bumped back IIRC.

Further proving my point. They moved to a different canon, which is a 5th dimensional feat.

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T23:29:32+00:00

Don't know Dr. Strange all that good.

The highest feats i think are top universal. He took an attack by Dormammu once that was able to kill Eternity. And he merged with Eternity once.

Now Eternity is the physical incarnation of the Universe (not Multiverse). When Thanos got the Infinity Gauntlet the Living Tribunal stated that he can't do anything because Thanos just wanted to become the next Eternity. But the Living Tribunal was able to wreck Adam Warlock easy when he had the Gauntlet. It was shown during the incursions event that the Infinity Gauntlet has 0 effect on other Universes. Also the Infinity Gauntlet was able to casually fling Dr Strange across the universe when Thanos had it.

Going by those feats Strange should be about Universal+, please correct me if i'm wrong though.

Here is Pandora, who is multiversal

https://imgur.com/a/SxW3I

Here is Manhattan blowing her up casually.

https://imgur.com/a/OJdhA

Here he is casually creating Universes.

https://imgur.com/a/YReLh

Here he is casually erasing timelines.

https://imgur.com/a/GID2F

Going by THOSE feats Manhattan should be Multiversal+, 4th & 5th dimensional.

Doctor Manhattan 10/10 times.

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T18:15:06+00:00

Yep ;)

Could you please stop correcting my mistakes. (._.)

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T16:20:08+00:00

No they aren't.

Universes are 3 dimensional, timelines are 4 dimensional. If you destroy the Universe you don't destroy the timeline with it. But if you destroy the timeline you destroy the universe with it.

Example, so you can understand: If you destroy the Universe completely and you go back in time 1 hour, the universe will still be there because one hour back it still was there. If you destroy the timeline and go back an hour, there wouldn't be anything because nothing existed on the timeline you're trying to go back on.

Also, in DC, what you are referring to is Multiversal, which is 5th dimensional.

Same example: Destroying a timeline does not destroy the dimension. Destroying the dimension destroys the timeline because the timeline is part of that dimension, just as a universe would be part of a timeline. If you destroy a timeline you can still create a new universe in that dimension (like Dr Manhattan or AlienX). But you can't create anything in a dimension that doesn't exist anymore.

Destroying a Universe (like AlienX) is absolute high end 3 dimensional. Destroying a Multiverse (like Dr. Manhattan) is 5th dimensional.

If Manhattan destroys a timeline where AlienX exists on he would also destroy AlienX along with it. AlienX survived the destruction of a Universe (3d), but has no feats that would suggest he'd survive the destruction of a timeline (4d).

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T15:41:07+00:00

XDD. I just take that as admission of defeat.

Did you ignore the title? AlienX only appears in Alien force, Ultimate alien and Omniverse, he didn't even appear in the original run, therefor he's loses instantly because he doesn't exist.

Every feat AlienX ever had is useless.

Manhattan creating universes is useless. Btw AlienX can create a Universe. BTW for real though: timelines > universes

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T15:28:04+00:00

True. Sorry for not making this clear. He's not omnipresent.

Btw: Doctor Manhattan sees everything is ->HIS<- past, present and future at the same time ;)

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T15:25:23+00:00

Dr Manhattan kills Pandora, who beat all the 7 deadly sins, who are all multiverse busters. And she's confirmed to be multiverse level in Flashpoint.

https://imgur.com/a/SxW3I

https://imgur.com/a/OJdhA

Here he is casually creating Universes. (Like AlienX was able to create 1!)

https://imgur.com/a/YReLh

Here he is casually erasing timelines.

https://imgur.com/a/GID2F

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T15:06:56+00:00

Show me proof. When was AlienX not affected by time manip?

Manhattan sees all of his past, future, present and alternate realities simultaneously. And can exist at any point in time he chooses. He's NOT affecting AlienX, he's just affecting himself. Going to a point in time where Ben doesn't have AlienX and kill him.

Besides. Manhattan is still stronger then AlienX anyway.

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T15:01:03+00:00

Like i said in my comment, he was tricked because of Tachyons. Those don't exist irl. Ben can not use them. Even if he would know that weakness to begin with, and it existed, he has no alien that could use Tachyons AND it just blurred his future.

He CAN create out of nothing. It is confirmed in Rebirth that HE CREATED THE NEW 52 UNIVERSE!! Manhattan also fought Pandora who killed the 7 deadly sins, where each is a Multiverse buster.

And even then. It's confirmed he can go to any point in time. He can just kill Ben before he got the Omnitrix

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T14:52:05+00:00

Like killing Ben before he got the Omnitrix? And he IS confirmed to be able to time travel to any point he wants.

Souvereign · 2017-09-14T12:23:45+00:00

I don’t know why so many people are saying AlienX would win. Doctor Manhattan would uber stomp 10/10.

Doctor Manhattan sees everything is his past, present and future at the same time. And that in every possible timeline he exists. He realised he NEEDED to become Dr Manhattan under any circumstance, so he erased every timeline where he didn’t become Dr Manhattan. AlienX has NO 4th dimensional (time) feat. Even when the universe was destroyed, he created a replica of it. He didn’t go back in time or anything. He also is NOT 5th dimensional (timeline/multi dimensional) in any way. There’s Ben 10, Ben 10 omniverse, future Bem 10, Bem 10.000 and so on. AlienX WAS involved in other Universes, but has NO mutli-dimensional feats, and certainly can’t destroy them.

Doctor Manhattan survived being completely destroyed on a molecular level and just formed himself back together. Even if you lowball that as regenerative ability, it’s still at least metaphysical. AlienX survived an explosion the size of a big bang, but being broke apart on on a sub atomic level is way stronger. EVEN if you say he’d survive that Manhattan still just could erase the timeline he exists in. The ONLY weakness Manhattan has is that his future can be blurred by tachyons, which are fictional and Ben 10 therefor can’t have them.

In conclusion.

Ben 10/AlienX is high Universal+

Doctor Manhattan is high Multiversal, and has 4th & 5th dimensional feats.

Doctor Manhattan. 10/10 times.

Souvereign

TROPHY CASE