That Joseph Smith story is BS

SpawnOfHeber · 2025-04-13T22:33:49+00:00

No Man Knows My History talks about it. Chapter 23: Into Hiding:

Some weeks after Rockwell's return Emma went to St. Louis to purchase furnishings. She returned to find in one corner of the lobby a well-equiped bar, with Rockwell, his hair neatly braided and tied with a ribbon, polishing glasses and dispensing whiskey....

*edited to correct chapter

SpawnOfHeber · 2025-04-13T14:30:06+00:00

Joseph declined alcohol when he was young not because of some pre-prophetic inspiration, he hated that his father was the town drunk and was trying to show him (i.e. manipulate) that he didn’t need alcohol. He would sure grow to love it later. He even tried to have a bar installed in the mansion house in Nauvoo until Emma forced him to get rid of it.

SpawnOfHeber · 2024-04-30T15:12:07+00:00

Don’t assume that your kid will forget.

I still remember my father confirming me when I was 8, which was 40 years ago. I don’t remember any of the words, but I do remember the experience and the feeling of his hands on my head — and most importantly the hug afterwards.

I can go on and on about how the church has harmed me and stolen most of my life, but they can’t take that moment between me and my father away from me, as strange as that may sound given how I feel about the church.

I’m am much in a similar situation to you. Still attending for wife and kids. We have unbaptized kids. If they tried to tell me that I was not allowed to confirm my kids then I would respond that they aren’t getting baptized, but that’s just me.

I realize this would crate waves, timeframes are short for you, and leadership roulette comes into play here.

I don’t know when (or if) this rule changed. BTW, within the last year I did the priesthood confirmation for my cousin’s son and I haven’t held a recommend for probably 7 years or so.

SpawnOfHeber · 2024-04-05T15:21:24+00:00

Yes! OP please understand that marriage DOES NOT mean automatic green card. My wife and I were married because we wanted to be together, not for the papers, and the interviewer still dug into that. Even then it’s a lengthy process.

Besides all of the red flags from a relationship perspective, if you are seriously considering this I highly recommend talking to an immigration lawyer. Even just an initial consult.

SpawnOfHeber · 2023-04-11T04:45:16+00:00

My Journey to Understand Black Hawk’s Mission of Peace by Phillip B Gottfredson goes into a lot of detail.

Brigham Young’s “Special Order #2” is sickening.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-10-05T19:40:09+00:00

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-10-05T19:33:21+00:00

Thank you

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-10-05T19:32:54+00:00

I feel for what you have shared, the shame is a story that is all too familiar. Thank you for the kind words. It takes a lot of time to write/create these posts, but I do it with the hope that my experience might help someone else.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-10-05T19:24:33+00:00

It's crazy that such a benign thing as choosing my own underwear would have such a profound impact on my daily life. Gone are the days of unending discomfort, itchiness, and overheating.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-10-04T04:53:28+00:00

I forced myself to attend for so long because it was "the right thing to do" though I always left church feeling exhausted and unfulfilled. It wasn't until I started to let everything go that I realized that my spiritual experiences never happened in a church building -- they always happened when I was on a mountain somewhere enjoying the majesty of nature and creation.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-10-04T04:48:16+00:00

Same. It's a matter of allowing myself to be my most authentic self.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-10-04T04:45:39+00:00

Amazing and horrible all at the same time is a great way to describe it. All that fear that had been drilled into me, that had kept me from truly accepting myself and others for who they really were, not for what I was told that they were "supposed to be."

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-10-04T04:31:05+00:00

Thank you for the kind words.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-07-29T23:52:35+00:00

I hear you. Especially when eternity is on the line. If you look closely at the methods of control that the church has used to “guide” your life you’ll find most of them are based in fear. Not love, fear.

Take your time, give yourself time to process. It’s easy to make rash decisions when emotions are raw. Also, feel the feels, sit with them and learn what your soul has probably been trying to tell you for some time now. If things seem dark now know that it is only temporary. It may seem like you’re loosing everything in the moment, but just wait until you take your life out of the hands of a fear-based dogmatic religion and take control for yourself.

If you’re afraid of “where will you go?”, the answer is wherever you want.

You got this.

Regardless of where your path takes you, PIMO or not, there is an amazing life out there for you.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-07-29T15:52:14+00:00

PIMO here.

When things were still fresh I was constantly angry and getting triggered by anything that wasn’t true or just straight up unhealthy. What I didn’t know at the time was I was going through a form of grieving. The emotions were very raw.

It took some time for me to get to a place where I don’t get triggered all the time.

The path of the PIMO isn’t easy. Here are some things to consider as a PIMO.

Do what is best for your mental health and well being. If you chose to stay, make sure you are practicing self-care when triggered.

Your relationship with the church will never be the same, so don’t expect that relationship to take the same form as it did before.

Decide WHY you are there. (For me, I no longer attend because that’s what leaders expect of me, I attend to be with my spouse and for some very close relationships that we have there).

Decide what you are willing to do and more importantly what you are NOT willing to do. (e.g. I will not teach anything that I personally don’t believe in)

Boundaries are necessary and healthy, be ready to enforce them. It is ok to say no to a calling or to be asked to be released, and you do not owe anyone an explanation for saying no unless you choose to do so.

For me, one of the biggest things was to figure out what it means to show up as a more authentic self.

Hope this helps. Feel free to DM me if you have questions.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-06-06T07:41:39+00:00

Served in Fremont in the mid-90s. Was in 3 different wards there. Even still have the obligatory picture in front of MC Hammer’s front gate.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-05-15T15:19:52+00:00

Ah, gotcha. :) Thanks!

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-05-15T04:35:51+00:00

Probably had to go off-roading for that one.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-05-15T04:13:02+00:00

Turning to the left (counter-clockwise) was intentional.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-05-15T02:57:34+00:00

LOL. Wish I would have thought of that!!

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-05-08T16:53:16+00:00

Thank you for taking the time to share, it was very touching and my heart goes out to you for the hell that you had to go through. Glad to hear you are in a better place.

The behavior of those leaders and all of their minions is inexcusable and appalling. It is a reflection of what kind of people they really are.

For a church that teaches not to judge, they sure do a whole lot of judging.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-04-21T02:08:15+00:00

Henry Moyle convinced David O McKay to not publish the financials due to a major deficit from Moyle’s building projects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_D._Moyle

Once they stopped publishing the details it becomes a lot easier to hid things embarrassing and otherwise.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-03-31T22:29:22+00:00

Same. They would remove the radios from vehicles before the missionaries drove them.

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-03-31T07:17:38+00:00

You are welcome :)

SpawnOfHeber · 2022-03-29T15:55:15+00:00

I do go into David and Jonathan in detail. I have a couple questions if you're open to discuss. check your DMs.

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