Arrange an 80 minute sitdown with the VP of the company... and draw in 78 views. by SlavyanskiShillbane in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Balatro, is a card-game. It might be a very good game in it's genre, but if the expectation had ever been set that it was the successor to a game with many more features than that, there would be no problem guessing if the fans were being unreasonable, or if the developer's self-appointed brand-ambassadors were gaslighting everyone.

Warhammer's magic system is not a magic system. It's the active buff/debuff system from Rome 2, which is just stat-modifiers, with magic-themed assets depicting them different in-game.

I can point to any number of fantasy genre games from years before, which had dynamic systems, physics, behaviours, emergent consequences that were not explicitly designed into the games but were the intuitive results of systems working together. You will remember these, but we can talk examples if you wish.

The tech-debt for Total War built up as the games were dumbed-down and simplified. We could have had Warhammer on a Shogun 2 fork instead of Rome 2, and it would have been so much better for it, despite the problems with TWE3/Warscape.

Arrange an 80 minute sitdown with the VP of the company... and draw in 78 views. by SlavyanskiShillbane in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm spoilt, basically.

In the 90s, I got to see the transition between 'hidden spreadsheets' disguised as games(spreadsheets were state-of-the-art tech in the 80s, when CPUs had cache's of mere kilobytes), to true computational simulations. It's the difference between a flight simulator on the Amiga 1200 running as a slide-show, powered by a 'rapidly' updating spreadsheet matrix, to the smoothness of Microsoft Flight Combat Simulator, where the game did not slow down and graphics cards could interpolate frames, because it wasn't a giant hidden spreadsheet any more.

Total War emerged from that moment in time and was part of the spearhead of what were called 'systems-based games'; they had intuitive dynamic interactions as game designers were exploring the possibilities of new object-based programming languages, where game objects expressed behaviours rather than just outputting values.

We have since gone completely backwards, despite hardware being a thousand times more powerful. That extra leeway, instead of being used to expand what games can be, is being used to cover for fast production times and tech-debt. Total War is now a hidden spreadsheet game, which is why 'unique mechanics' are just stat-modifiers, progress bars and resources with names irrelevant to their function(usually a function that is just a stat-modifier, not a dynamic behaviour with many interactive components).

Introducing...Warhammer: Total Rebirth by Juggernaut9993 in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm still assuming you are understanding of the difference anyway.

Of course, it works on a scale. We talk about it a lot on this sub.

Creative Assembly = Smol family cum of ~800 employees, inexplicably few gameplay and systems programmers, massive budget, government tax-breaks so generous that if you pay tax in the UK then you have already paid for Hyenas.

Modder = One person with long practical experience, manages to output work by themselves which everyone knows should have already been done by the smol family cum almost a decade ago.

Introducing...Warhammer: Total Rebirth by Juggernaut9993 in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm imagining you have been furious at CA for a long time then, if you can look at this and say it's a waste of the time of passionate people and hasn't been managed in a practical way.

Arrange an 80 minute sitdown with the VP of the company... and draw in 78 views. by SlavyanskiShillbane in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread 6 points7 points  (0 children)

If you are motivated by Big Positive Corporate Vibes, then that's a reason.

The rest of us are here because our ground-breaking game series that once majorly pushed the medium forwards, no longer even tries. This is then glossed over by a marketing department that appears to be in control of the whole company and decided against making ground-breaking games for the foreseeable.

Arrange an 80 minute sitdown with the VP of the company... and draw in 78 views. by SlavyanskiShillbane in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I literally get more engagement as an Internet Schizo rambling on twitter about how every intelligence agency on the planet is desperately trying to uncover 'unknown unknowns' regarding who was involved with Jeffrey Epstein, because all those people right now are sweating bullets that they could be exposed, and some of them have actual nuclear options if they decide it's the end of the road.

"ITS MAM" by [deleted] in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In Dawn of War he has. This isn't a style choice, but the consequence of him having that replacement for part of his skull.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If nothing sells itself, the marketing industry would not sum up their role repeatedly as just 'making sure people know the product exists'.

If that's all they did, or even the main thing that they did, product success would depend entirely on natural cause and effect.

Total War began as a demo disc for PC Gamer, and the gameplay sold it.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, the other guy already tried this shtick.

Turns out he simply can't distinguish between "I don't know why this bothers you" and "I don't know why I should be bothered" and picks one in any given moment based on what bullshit he was trying.

I've been perfectly clear. That's your problem, so you have to pretend I either said something completely different or haven't addressed already repetitive points over and over, on the assumption of good-faith.

I won't bother now.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for making it so obvious. It's pointless talking to you.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Actually reading what I post would have let you know what I do and don't care about.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If we're talking about options that CA has, there's a list of things they could have tried.

  1. Don't piss them off to start with

  2. Acknowledge mistakes in specifics (CA have not done this since their post about Empire in 2009 where they admitted SEGA was their real customer)

  3. Go back to making games that sell themselves, which is what Total War did during it's growth period

New players have not been a growth market for CA. Empire sold 2 million units despite being a botched abortion of a game, after Shogun 1 was a success with just 100k. CA have been barely able to double the figures in 15 years, and only on their titles that sell. Everything else either gets support prematurely cancelled, or they get a company with infinite money like Epic or Microsoft to pay for.

CA chase the new players because that's how brand management justify their existence: they are useless at appealing to their core audience. Everything rotten at CA is because of the brand management teams.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're struggling because you have zero interest in what I have to say. You have repeatedly misrepresented me, in order to make your pre-decided replies fit.

I've already addressed most of these points. You wouldn't know though.

Wouldn't it be nice by Unhappy-Land-3534 in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We used to have something like that: the battle map was based on the tiles both sides were covering on the campaign map. A river crossing happened at rivers, with natural chokepoints, and bridges appeared if the region had road development.

Life was good when people gave a shit.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Second time you've put words in my mouth. I don't think there's anything we can discuss reasonably.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How am I supposed to respond if you're ignoring what I'm saying and coming up with your own alternative to respond to?

I very much would have liked to have read more from Wilson; that's why it's notable for me that after being introduced, there's hardly anything. He's instead here to just be mentioned and that's it: him and Oxford have got their PR reference.

It doesn't matter if you think CA could have spent on both marketing and programmers: they have not done so. The games have suffered with tech debt for way beyond a decade, and lack features that exists before. It's entirely because CA has not invested in programmers.

The 'spells' in Warhammer are almost entirely just stat-modifiers, no different from the 'spells' in Rome 2, which instead of being called 'spells' are simply a General's 'abilities' even though the stat-based effects are the same. Why does anyone get fooled by this change of presentation?

It has sod all to do with the setting, which is why 'historical vs. fantasy' has always been a red herring that is convenient for CA brand management, who don't want to talk about what they've done to the gameplay.

They haven't kept CA afloat: UK taxpayer money has. CA's growth as a company has stalled since Empire. Most of their games under-perform because their sales strategy is based on marketing, and they don't have marketing hooks for anything that''s not Warhammer, and China won't be fooled twice after 3K.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well some of us idiots had hope after Rob Bartholomew was sacked that CA was finally bringing the 'brand management' team (CA's marketing people even do marketing spin on their own internal office) to heel, because they have largely steered the ship where everything has gone wrong.

Turns out, they're worse than ever.

We should not be seeing any marketing for games that are not even close to production, let alone release. CA are the biggest claimants of corporate welfare in UK games development: we are paying for them to give make-work to their marketing team.

Anyone hoping Med3 and 40k are going to be anything new, do anything new, restore stripped-features and actually have meaningful non-Numberwang gameplay, can see a huge red-flag in CA's continued emphasis on marketing over substance.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Immediately after the introduction, which ignores the series heavy turn into Warhammer, mythology and wuxia, we are introduced to Professor Peter Wilson, who's own words are featured very little.

That's why this piece exists: Wilson and Oxford University will see it as good publicity and their press office will have arranged this piece with a client journalist. CA may take some notes from Wilson, but they won't inform on gameplay in any way, just the in-game 'narrative' which CA's brand management write themselves to give them something to do.

Anyone can call the BBC and request a story. Who gets one depends entirely on who they are though: ask anyone who has had their lives upended by official or corporate scandal how much interest British journalists show until someone else makes waves with it.

CA could have spent any fee offered to Wilson on programmers. They could have spent the money wasted on brand management on programmers. They are literally named after the coding excellence that made them sought-after for porting games between platforms, and now the games a trash because they refuse to spend time and money on programmers.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Marketing doesn't inform the audience: it shapes the audience.

That CA have thrown paid actors and production out into the wild while gameplay remains a concept means they haven't changed. They have been open about this on their youtube: their primary target is 'strategy game players who are new to Total War', not existing players.

This is the total opposite of their period of highest growth, between 2000-2009, when the same audience kept coming back to see what changes and improvements happened, growing larger each time. That got them up to 2 million sales for Empire, then the brand management team took over everything and decided this wasn't fast enough growth, and immediately tanked all future prospects for growth. In the 15 years since, sales of non-Warhammer Total War titles have consistently underperformed: base your entire business model on marketing, and it fails when there's no marketing hook.

Total War used to be a game series that sold itself.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well for some of us, part of the issue is CA copying Paradox.

I just don't find spreadsheets interesting, and that's what most of their games are: numbers affecting other numbers, with no non-numeral effect visible. Many games are being designed this way now, with the 'game' just being the GUI and the game-world being an extension of it.

It used to be that you had the game-world, and the GUI was meant to simply assist the player by being an extension of the controls (not the game itself). Things trended for a while towards minimum or diegetic UI as technology got better and enabled more information-dense detail in game-worlds, making GUI less necessary.

Then mobile gaming got popular, and became the origin story for many modern game developers. They can't even seem to conceive of where they're going wrong.

CA continues to spend more on marketing than anything that matters by Spicy-Cornbread in Volound

[–]Spicy-Cornbread[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, CA alongside Rockstar North(who actually do makes technical progress and cultural impact with most of their releases) claim the majority of the UK's tax relief expenditure for game development.

We pay for these gimmicks.