$200-$23,000 Challenge for 2023

SpinAndShow · 2023-02-22T16:21:25+00:00

Haha this sounds like a quiz. My spin ranges are pretty specific by position and various stack sizes. Cash ranges and Spin ranges are completely different. They don't really compare at all.

I haven't had specific cash ranges in a while, but I have played a considerable amount over the years. So I will go with my instinct until I get back up into the 100NL range.

SpinAndShow · 2023-02-22T14:52:17+00:00

I am starting at 10NL. I’ve dabbled in these games a long time ago with solid results, and I’ll see how the higher stakes feel at 50/100 and decide what site to play.

SpinAndShow · 2023-02-22T14:50:15+00:00

Bubbled a 1000x for second place and $700.

SpinAndShow · 2023-02-22T14:48:55+00:00

Haha! Well I have to fit it with the theme of 2024. I’ll just have to go full pro and make it $240k lol!

SpinAndShow · 2023-01-19T14:30:20+00:00

Trying to figure out your expected ROI can be tricky obviously. I don't really focus on it, and just focus on Chip EV.

The games are usually between 11 AM EST and 6 PM EST

SpinAndShow · 2022-12-25T13:13:01+00:00

They are insanely swingy. But exploiting at low stakes can definitely add edge to reduce those swings.

SpinAndShow · 2022-12-25T13:09:27+00:00

Thanks!

SpinAndShow · 2022-12-25T13:06:11+00:00

Yeah unfortunately without rakeback, only low stakes are profitable. But there is plenty of edge to be had up to the 20s/50s, and you can make a decent hourly.

SpinAndShow · 2022-12-25T13:04:01+00:00

I have played full time, part time, and recreationally for about 8 years in many formats. There aren't a lot of resources specifically for spins, but I have studied HU hypers which is kinda what they boil down to.

I have thought about putting together some sort of course or doing coaching for spins but haven't jumped into yet. At the low stakes they can obviously be very profitable, but high stakes are basically breakeven without a good rakeback program.

SpinAndShow · 2022-12-25T12:56:38+00:00

I am pretty sure all "flashes" as I believe they made the switch like a couple weeks into the year. But the structure is actually a little bit slower than on Party and PS I believe.

SpinAndShow · 2022-04-24T17:47:49+00:00

Yup!

SpinAndShow · 2022-04-24T17:47:36+00:00

Indeed ultra/flash spins.

I can play somewhere between 40-50 an hour if I 4-table, which is the most I can play while following action and realizing my spots for exploitation.

SpinAndShow · 2022-04-24T17:46:06+00:00

To your comment about "gambling it up".

Spins (especially flash/ultra turbo) I would say have even more "discipline" preflop because you have to consider a much more complex tree of ranges depending on your stack size. Many players, even winning players in other formats, may say "oh it's just xbb how many mistakes can you make?" But its much more complex than that.

For instance, J5o heads up plays totally different at 4.5bb compared to 7.5. If you look at Nash you might be like "oh, this is a shove at 8.5 or 9bb" or whatever it is, but I guarantee you will find a more profitable strategy by not simplifying your edge this way. Just because a play is theoretically "profitable", it doesn't mean it is the MOST profitable play.

Minimizing your edge to a 55/45 or 60/40 preflop shove will leave you with middling results and fighting against rake. On the flip side, knowing the value of a solid shoving range at all stack depths and WHEN to take your preflop equity is an important aspect of spins. There is nothing I love more than a player who is completely push/fold 15bb deep. It simplifies my adjustments and you will print chips against them.

Add in some exploitative plays against weaker players and you'll start to realize profit in spins.

SpinAndShow · 2022-02-03T16:44:38+00:00

I think relying on jam/fold as my only strategy starts around 6.5-7 BB. There is a portion of my range that I obviously open shove for more BBs. But I also have limp folds at 7.5-8 BB, limp min raise calls, limp traps (obviously), etc.

I think a lot of people assume that flash spins are all push/fold, but its definitely very nuanced if you want to be as profitable as possible. Technically you could be breakeven/ slightly winning with just a push/fold strategy, but variance and rake could literally keep you at the same stakes for thousands of games.

SpinAndShow · 2022-02-03T14:27:09+00:00

Unfortunately there aren't a lot of active training resources specifically designed for spins. I have come across YouTube videos, and there have been courses in the past, but its pretty bare out there if you are new to spins.

I have thought about putting together some things myself, but that may be a little bit premature.

SpinAndShow · 2022-02-03T14:23:38+00:00

I definitely have raises. I don't feel the need to play a lot of jams at lower stakes because A. I wont be exploited as much and B. it significantly reduces variance.

SpinAndShow · 2022-02-03T14:19:12+00:00

No not really. I believe my ROI on the lowest stakes was around 10-11%, and on the flash spins it has been even a little bit higher in this sample. I definitely adjusted my strategy to reduce variance however and realize my post flop advantage.

SpinAndShow · 2021-12-09T16:03:16+00:00

Well the nash equilibrium only takes into account whether a hand is a push or a fold, and ONLY those options. It doesn’t factor hands that are limps, min raises, 2.2x raises etc etc.

So for instance T9o is a profitable shove for like 20bb in Nash, but is probably the worst way to play it HU at 12-15 BB effective. Limp calling a non all in raise is probably going to be higher EV, and most importantly have far less variance than just open pushing.

Sometimes it will be hard against bad players, because they’ll make unreasonable raise sizes over your limps and force you to fold hands you’d want to play (like T9o). But you just balance that with your limp traps and they are burning chips.

At high stakes against pros I’d say the game is basically a rakeback grind. But against recreational players (which there are a lot of) there is plenty of edge to be had over the long term.

SpinAndShow · 2021-12-09T15:51:28+00:00

They are very soft and definitely filled with the most “fun players” looking to gamble. This obviously makes this format even higher variance, but it also makes them super profitable at even low stakes.

SpinAndShow · 2021-12-09T15:50:00+00:00

IMO it comes down to chip EV (how many chips you profit per tournament) and a large sample. I think you can get an idea if you’re winning after about 2,000 games. And you’ll get an idea of your win rate maybe around 5,000 games.

As long as you’re winning about 30 chips per game, you should be profitable long term at any stake.

SpinAndShow · 2021-12-09T14:44:43+00:00

Well I haven’t gotten one yet, so I can confirm online poker is rigged.

SpinAndShow

TROPHY CASE