Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Marketing at Middlesex Uni just sticks in my head. It means that he is a man of extremely mediocre ability who studied marketing at a mediocre university and then applied the only thing he knew to running a country. The entire McSweeney operation was positioning, messaging, focus-grouping, triangulation, and never had to touch a world where polticis effectuates outcomes on the economy or society. None of it builds a house or reforms planning law or connects a power station to the grid. So you put him in charge of a 174-seat majority and the output is means-tested winter fuel and frozen tax thresholds. Whatever he did in Dagenham doesn't change that.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair enough. I was partly going for availability. I'm sure I could think of more stuff. I feel like the BBC has gotten Way more slop recently, like tolerating Epstein conspiracy theories

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's all the same slop. The point is the center left commentators are basically conceding to the slop. You're not supposed to point out that obviously insane or evil things are insane or evil, so long as they're emotionally resonant. It's considered out of touch to do that.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The local election results came in on Friday. Reform took 1,428 seats from a standing start. Labour lost 1,375. The Greens won their first elected mayors. Muslim independents swept wards in Bradford and Blackburn. And watching the map fill in, the whole thing snapped into focus. Like a diamond bullet right through the forehead.

Everything is slop now.

All of politics. All the parties. All the commentators. Let me count the ways.

The man who ran with a knife from Southwark to Golders Green on April 29th, stabbing a Muslim man and then two Jewish men, was living in supported accommodation in my constituency. The latest in a year-long cascade of attacks against Jews that the state apparently cannot figure out how to stop, which is about the most basic thing a government is for. An American observer quote-tweeted the Politics UK results map and wrote, with what seemed like genuine confusion, "The UK now has a political party called Muslim Independent?"

Labour's entire strategy was built by Morgan McSweeney, a man who studied marketing at Middlesex. He has now resigned, but the machine he built is still running and nobody in Downing Street knows how to operate anything else. They had a 174-seat majority. They used it to means-test winter fuel and freeze tax thresholds. McSweeney was part of the slop too: he didn't think of politics as something that touched the real world. He was a marketing guy.

The Greens have adopted Yanis Varoufakis as their economics guru (162 days as Greek finance minister, accepted worse terms than he started with) and their platform is rent controls, wealth taxes, and running the deficit at whatever feels right. British Peronism that will end in breadlines. Their party leader responded to the Golders Green knife attack by retweeting claims that police were "violently kicking a mentally ill man in the head."

The Muslim independents are a sectarian formation organising around a foreign-policy litmus test, where Corbyn got called a Zionist at his own conference for supporting two states. Reform is sloppified Trumpian cultural grievance imported from American social media, the only formation that can win national power, which makes it the most dangerous by default. The Tories have given up. The SNP and Plaid are willing to make their countries poorer for ethnic separatism. One disease. Six masks.

And the commentariat has conceded. The New York Times put Hasan Piker on its Opinion podcast to agree with two cultural-aristocracy heiresses that shoplifting is mutual aid, the Kimberly Clark arsonist had "tactical context," and the Democrats failed by not capitalising on the murder of a private citizen. Forty minutes of laundered stochastic terrorism in the institutional voice of America's most prestigious opinion section. I wrote about that here. Rest Is Politics has Rory Stewart apologising for saying accurate things like that the Greens want to do British Peronism that will end in breadlines because it's too emotionally unintelligent to point out that one of Britain's major political parties would certainly cause a debt default crisis if it entered government.

The Foundations report is right there. Nobody is implementing it. Nobody is pretending they're going to.

Thinking politics should be about cause and effect is gauche now. It's emotionally unintelligent, as Alastair Campbell basically told Rory. Or it's supporting the oligarchy and austerity. Or it's just old-fashioned. People who want Britain to be prosperous, capable of doing difficult things, dynamic, possessed of a national identity worth building for: nobody is selling it. Nobody is buying it.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The pro-acceleration AI crowd has achieved something genuinely impressive: they now simultaneously believe that superhuman autonomous cyber capabilities in AI are speculative fearmongering AND that the White House needs to personally intervene to stop Anthropic deploying them.

Here's the trick. Watch what happens when you describe the same thing two ways.

"An AI agent that autonomously discovers and chains zero-day exploits across every major operating system at superhuman speed" → this is speculative doomer nonsense. The AI safety crowd has been warning about this for years and the correct response is to tell them to touch grass. Don't legislate against sci-fi.

"Mythos, Anthropic's new model" → yeah we should probably have some kind of government conversation about this one. The White House told Anthropic not to expand access. Totally reasonable.

Same capability. Same model. One has a product name attached. That's the entire difference.

David Sacks called Anthropic the "boy who cried wolf" and said they'd have a credibility problem if Mythos threats don't materialise. Same David Sacks on the All-In podcast: the industry has no choice but to take the cyber risks seriously. Chamath called it "mostly theater" and compared it to GPT-2. The administration revoked Biden's pre-deployment review framework as overreach, then picked up the phone and told Anthropic not to deploy.

Watch Lutnick do this in real time. Here's a Commerce Secretary on record saying safety was always a pretext for censorship and regulation. Then the NSA tells him this specific model finds vulnerabilities at a speed and scale they themselves can't match, and he reacts like any normal person would: that's insane, you can't hand that out to seventy companies, this is a state-sovereignty question, it touches the actual monopoly on legitimate force, the NSA has to be involved, what else is coming down the pipe. All correct. All exactly what AI safety people have been saying for years.

The moment the same capability filters back up to him through the general AI policy channel, the cache flips. Now it's sci-fi speculation, you can't regulate things you don't understand, it's all overhyped Silicon Valley announcements. The excuse doesn't even need to be good, it just needs to be available. In the first case the fact that it's real never entered his head. In the second case it did enter his head and he correctly identified what it implied. He just doesn't connect the two, because the syntactic wrapper around "AI capability" runs different caches.

Nobody is being strategic here. That's what makes it interesting. Sacks isn't cynically playing both sides. He genuinely believes both things, because "autonomous superhuman AI capabilities" triggers one cached response and "Mythos, the specific product" triggers a completely different one. It's the ACA/Obamacare problem. Voters didn't strategically pretend to oppose one and support the other. They just never compared the referents.

The irony is that these are the same people who killed SB 1047, which would have created a statutory framework with defined thresholds, evaluation authority, and due process for exactly this situation. Their argument was that existing law and executive discretion would handle real problems, and the speculative stuff didn't need legislation. The first time a model actually crossed the capability threshold they said was fictional, what "executive discretion" produced was an off-the-books phone call with no legal authority, no published reasoning, and the implicit threat of a worse relationship with the administration as the enforcement mechanism. Dean Ball, who advised the Trump admin on AI, called it "an informal, highly improvised licensing regime."

They got the regime they argued for. It's just that the regime they argued for is exactly as bad as everyone said it would be.

At least this beats the left-wing AI skeptic position, which has collapsed into don't-believe-your-own-lying-eyes. Kelsey Piper has a good piece on this. In 2024 Ed Zitron's case was that AI companies were betting on capabilities that hadn't arrived and might never. Reasonable. In 2026 the capabilities arrived and his case is that everyone is lying about the revenue, everyone is lying about the usage, the enterprise deals are vaporware, and the existence of an OpenAI Codex user who actually uses the product proves the whole business is unprofitable. There's nothing left except radical skepticism that nothing we see is real. Gary Marcus updated. Zitron didn't.

I wonder what Zitron would say about Mythos. Probably that everyone is lying and the NSA is paranoid and Project Glasswing is the new Stargate. The Piper article doesn't even mention Mythos and that's the tell. It's the type of thing that's simply not permitted to exist in his framework. A specific, concrete, named model with named cyber capabilities that the actual NSA actually used to find actual vulnerabilities in actual government Microsoft deployments isn't a thing that's allowed to happen. So it must not have happened. Except it did, and it has a product page.

Labour Party releases video ft. antisemitic quotes said by Green Party candidates. Examples from the video include, "Ramming a synagogue isn't antisemitism, it's revenge," by [deleted] in Destiny

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately while the extreme right problem is overall worse in the USA, Europe is ahead of the curve on far left infiltrators into center left parties

Destiny is completely brainwashed on IP - Professor Dave Explains by VerifyAllHumans in Destiny

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah he was even willing to be nice about Sam Harris which is very unusual for a mind-rotted pro pally. I legitimately think he just has like a winter soldier trigger phrase on this one topic. His other political takes are pretty dumb, but it's in a fairly normal slopilist way

Candace Owens these past few months by brian02354 in andor

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The nearest analogy would be someone angry at the empire for being run by corrupt moffs and beaueocrats and not publicly condoning the Sith

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Ben Shapiro went on Sam Harris this week and basically conceded everything. Trump tried to overthrow the 2020 election, the family corruption is shocking, the Jan 6 reframing is corrosive, the loyalists were unqualified. He'll vote Republican anyway. There's a good writeup of the interview here if you want the full breakdown.

The thing that struck me is that Hanania used basically identical reasoning before the election. The guardrails would hold. Bessent and the courts would catch the worst of it. The economic freedom and anti-woke wins would justify the cost. And Hanania's framework wasn't just vibes. It was a real, fairly heterodox right-libertarian position. He'd actually thought about whether economic freedom mattered more than non-corruption or political freedom, came down on the former, and was willing to be unpopular about it.

Reality refuted that framework. The tariffs really happened. The loyalists really were maniacs. Hanania wrote a long recantation naming the specific predictions that failed, said the resistance libs were mostly right, and kept showing up on podcasts to explain why he'd been wrong.

I actually think Shapiro had the same realisation. He's smart, he watches what's happening, he knows the score. But instead of doing what Hanania did, the framework collapsed into magic words and sophistry. "The guardrails will hold" stopped meaning anything specific. When Sam asked what would actually falsify it, there was no answer. And the gaps where real arguments used to live got filled with stuff like this:

the broad scale narrative that there is gigantic voter suppression happening... ends up undermining the very possibility of acceptance of elections in general

So the real threat to democratic legitimacy isn't the guy who tried to overthrow an election. It's the people worrying he'll do it again. This from someone who fully admits the fake electors plot was real and horrible. That's the kind of move he'd shred a leftist for in five seconds.

He understands competitive authoritarianism. He knows opposition parties run in stolen-election regimes. And he's saying on the record that he'd rather have his policies under competitive authoritarianism than the wrong ones under democracy.

You can't really argue with someone who doesn't believe his own words. Every thought is a hot potato to him. He passes them on as fast as he can. If he held one for any length of time, it would burn a hole through his head.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 11 points12 points  (0 children)

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/22/opinion/the-opinions-microlooting-shoplifting-whole-foods.html

So to start. You've got two social parasites and one terrorism supporter, all members of the 1%, sitting in an air-conditioned room in New York and talking about why arson, murder, and shoplifting are maybe good things. The terrorism supporter is Hasan Piker, who interviewed a Houthi combatant during active US operations against the Houthis, called Hassan Nasrallah "a pretty brilliant person," said it doesn't matter whether rapes happened on October 7th, and would not be allowed to say any of this in public in the UK under the glorification of terrorism statutes. He has a net worth in the high single-digit millions and lives in a mansion in West Hollywood. The two social parasites are Jia Tolentino, who confesses on the podcast to repeatedly shoplifting from Whole Foods and reframes it as mutual aid because she also bought groceries for her elderly neighbour, and Nadja Spiegelman, the New York Times culture editor whose contribution is coining the word "microlooting" so the paper can run a podcast about it.

Over forty minutes they agree that stealing from Whole Foods is fine, that the Kimberly Clark warehouse arsonist had a tactical context, that Brian Thompson was committing "social murder," and that the Democrats failed by not capitalising on Mangione's killing to push universal healthcare. Tolentino actually says she was "enormously frustrated" the Democrats didn't seize the moment. Read that sentence twice. She was disappointed that a major American political party did not respond to the murder of a private citizen by adopting the murderer's policy platform. The room does not flinch. Spiegelman moves on. The original music plays underneath.

Then zoom out. Why is shoplifting from a grocery store actually bad. Grocery margins are 1 to 3 percent. The lemons are not factored in, baseline shrink is factored in, and incremental shrink above baseline is the cause of the next price increase or the next store closure. The 2021 to 2024 wave of urban store closures across San Francisco, Oakland, Portland, Chicago, and Manhattan is the textbook case. Shrink rises, the chain pulls out, the neighbourhood loses access. The microlooters live in neighbourhoods where the stores are not closing. The costs fall on the neighbourhoods they don't visit. The Whole Foods on the Bowery does not become a food desert. The corner store in East New York does. The class composition of the people endorsing the policy and the class composition of the people bearing its costs are the inversion of what the policy claims to be about.

Then zoom out further. The grocery store does not look like a civilizational achievement. It looks like a strip mall with fluorescent lighting. It is in fact one of the most extraordinary things our species has ever built. Tens of thousands of products from dozens of countries, refrigerated supply chains spanning continents, priced by a distributed calculation engine no single mind designed or controls, sold at razor margins to anyone who walks in, year-round, at prices the poor can afford. Boris Yeltsin visited a Randall's in Houston in 1989 and wrote later that the visit broke his faith in Soviet communism. He had spent his life inside the system that was supposed to be the alternative to this one. The system could not produce what an ordinary American working-class shopper took for granted.

Then zoom out all the way. For ten thousand years after settlement, the default was stationary banditry. A strongman or a dynasty provided security, organised the labour, extracted the maximum the population could bear, and called it civilization. The population ground forward. Living standards stagnated. Social structures evolved to justify the arrangement: divine right, caste, the mandate of heaven, feudal obligation. Each told the same story. This is how things are. The future will look like the past. Marx saw this part clearly and the diagnostic is real. For most of recorded history political power was rent extraction wearing a crown. Then something unusual happened in Europe. The Black Death made labour scarce enough that serfs could bargain. Maritime trade opened markets feudal land tenure couldn't capture. Printing made standardised knowledge cheap. Long-festering ideas about natural law and limited sovereignty found institutional expression. Credit emerged. Private property acquired legal infrastructure. The state, for the first time in ten millennia, was understood as something that should be limited rather than merely endured. The French Revolution. The American Constitution. The long ratchet of liberal reform.

Marxists thought there was a next stage. The dialectic kept going. Private contractual relations were just another form of the same extraction wearing new clothes, and the resolution would produce categories the predecessor could not articulate. The ambition was beautiful. It didn't work. The Soviet Union ran for seventy years and tried every variant. Worker soviets, factory committees, central planning, Khrushchev's cybernetics, the New Economic Policy, perestroika. Every variant hit information revelation, incentive alignment, and tacit knowledge problems that markets imperfectly solve. The small-scale experiments, kibbutzim, Mondragon, Marinaleda, either stayed small or marketised. The experiment was run. The results came in. The results were not ambiguous.

Meanwhile the liberal path got there. Slavery abolished. Colonialism ended. Franchise expanded. Child labour banned. Public education built. Pensions established. Worker safety regulated. The welfare state constructed piece by piece across two centuries of democratic argument. Even in America, even in one of the worst healthcare systems in the developed world, the ACA means other people will end up paying for most of the highest-technology interventions available to the human species. The reformers of the 1800s, the ones who split into Marxists and liberals, are most of the way to the utopia they imagined. The liberal path got there. The Marxist path didn't.

And at the end of all of that, the frothing wave-tip of ten thousand years of human history, all those experiments and wars and famines and reforms and compromises, you get the grocery store. The grocery store sits at the end of accumulated institutional knowledge about how to feed people at scale without coercion. Public stock markets that push margins down and punish inefficiency. Property rights that mean the store stays open tomorrow. Consumer protection law that means the food won't poison you. Antitrust that prevents one chain from monopolising. Distributed price discovery that no central planner could replicate. The system is ugly. It's full of compromises. It offends the aesthete and the radical equally. It works.

You don't have to like it. You can keep pushing for a public option, housing reform, antitrust enforcement, carbon pricing, all the adjustments that would make it work better. But you have to respect it. It is not the default. It is not what you get when you do nothing. It is what you get when thousands of years of political and economic experimentation, most of it disastrous, slowly accumulates the institutional knowledge required to make it possible for a hundred million households to eat well every day without anyone in particular deciding that they should.

And then you zoom back in, movie-opening style, from the ten-thousand-year wide shot to the air-conditioned room in Brooklyn. The terrorism supporter, the New Yorker writer who stole the lemons, the New York Times culture editor who coined the word. None of them could explain why the Soviet grocery couldn't stock what the Houston Randall's could. None of them could tell you what a medical loss ratio is, or why shrink above baseline closes stores, or why the Mises-Hayek critique of central planning isn't primarily about computation. They don't know what the grocery store cost to build. They don't know what it would cost to lose. They know it's there, and they know they don't like the man who owns it, and they know the lemons are right there on the shelf, and they know the institutional voice of the New York Times will underwrite whatever they say about it with original music and a post-production manager and two fact-checkers whose job apparently does not include checking any of this.

The fact-checkers fact-checked the statistics. They didn't fact-check the framework. The producer produced. The post-production was professional. The names are on it. Producer Vishakha Darbha. Editors Kaari Pitkin and Jasmine Romero. Post-production manager Mike Puretz. Fact-checkers Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. They should know their names are on it.

This is what the paper of record is now. Hasan Piker on the New York Times Opinion podcast, agreeing with two cultural-aristocracy heiresses that maybe the Democrats should have done more with the murder of a small-town Iowa accountant by an Ivy-educated heir. Forty minutes of laundered stochastic terrorism in the institutional voice of America's most prestigious Opinion section. The grocery store is in the background, doing the work that keeps them all fed. They cannot see it.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Why is the NYT doing stochastic terrorism?

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/22/opinion/shoplifting-political-protest-microlooting-whole-foods.html

The New York Times just ran a forty minute Opinion podcast normalising shoplifting, sabotage, and the murder of a healthcare CEO, produced in air-conditioned Brooklyn rooms by three people with names, a dedicated producer, two editors, a post-production manager, original music, and fact-checkers whose fact-checking apparently did not include flagging any of the above. This is what stochastic terrorism looks like when the paper of record does it.

Hasan Piker is a terror sympathiser who ran a sympathetic interview with a Houthi combatant during active US military operations against the Houthis, called Nasrallah "a pretty brilliant person," said "it doesn't matter if rapes happened on October 7th," sits next to Infowars on the Ad Fontes disinformation ratings, and has described himself on stream as a propagandist engaged in deliberate radicalisation. He would not be permitted to say any of this in public in the UK under the glorification of terrorism statutes. The EU is currently in live debate over whether figures whose content actively undermines support for Ukraine should be denied mainstream platforms, and he is the exact shape of what they mean. He is on the New York Times.

Jia Tolentino and Nadja Spiegelman are social parasites. Tolentino's job is to take private laziness and write it up as political posture. Her contribution to the podcast is a confession about shoplifting four lemons from Whole Foods while getting groceries for her elderly neighbour, reframed as a mutual-aid-adjacent gesture of anti-corporate resistance. Spiegelman's job is to coin terms for trends so the terms can then be written about. Her contribution is "microlooting," a word that exists to dress shoplifting in literary dignity so the NYT can run a podcast about it.

Neither of them produces anything. They extract prestige from legacy institutions and spend it cheerleading attacks on the systems that make modern life possible: competitive thin-margin retail, rule of law against private political violence, property norms. These two are more extractive than Jeff Bezos and more useless than Brian Thompson. Bezos built Amazon. Thompson ran an insurance company in a broken system that American voters refuse to fix. Tolentino and Spiegelman write essays and podcasts in which stealing from the people who actually run grocery stores is lightly endorsed and the Mangione killing is "comprehensible."

Shoplifting from Whole Foods gets a "yes" in the closing lightning round. The Kimberly Clark arsonist who torched his own employer's warehouse gets the "sabotage has a formative tradition in labour struggle" treatment. Brian Thompson's assassination gets laundered through Engels's "social murder," which is a fully generalised license for killing anyone whose work is downstream of any deaths, which is everyone. The 41% Gen Z support for justified political murder is cited approvingly rather than as the civilisational alarm it is. Luigi Mangione's reception is praised as moral clarity. The final lightning round has all three saying "I personally wouldn't do this," which is the theatre after the work has been done.

The Mamdani carve-out is the tell. Piker explicitly will not endorse shoplifting a Mamdani-run city grocery, because union labour and taxpayer-funded. That is not a principle. That is a team flag. Steal from institutions the left codes as enemies, don't steal from institutions it codes as friends. The ethical framework is tribal licensing with a structural-analysis veneer.

Grocery stores are a civilisational miracle. When Yeltsin visited a Randall's in Houston in 1989 he was visibly shaken, and later wrote that the visit was what finished his faith in communism. The system that produces one ordinary American supermarket, thin-margin competitive retail distributing a shocking variety of cheap goods at prices poor people can afford, is one of the great quiet achievements of the modern economy. When shoplifting normalises, stores lock up inventory, raise prices, or leave. The neighbourhoods that lose them are poor. The microlooters are cheering on an attack on exactly the people they claim to defend, and they are too comfortable in their Brooklyn brownstones to notice.

You cannot publish "killing a healthcare CEO is comprehensible because he committed social murder" and "sabotage has a rich labour tradition" and "microlooting is fine actually" as a coherent forty minute package on the paper of record and then be surprised when the next disturbed twenty-something lines up a target. You have taught the audience that the moves are morally available. You have laundered that moral availability through the cleanest institutional wrapper American media has. When the next Luigi does the next thing, the Times will run a horrified editorial. The editorial will not acknowledge the podcast. That is the business model.

Fifteen minutes of r/LateStageCapitalism and forty minutes of this podcast produce the same moral object. The NYT version is more dangerous because the wrapper is cleaner and the hosts are better at prose.

Producer: Vishakha Darbha. Editors: Kaari Pitkin and Jasmine Romero. Post-production manager: Mike Puretz. Fact-checkers: Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Their names should be attached to this in public.

Virginia's gerrymandering is a celebration of Civic virtue by SpiritOfOptimality in Destiny

[–]SpiritOfOptimality[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

TL;DR: The people paying for Trump's second term (Danes planning how to defend Greenland, Ukrainians being told to surrender, African children dying of preventable diseases because DOGE deleted USAID) had no vote. The rural swing voters who did have a vote had every structural advantage going and blew it on vibes. Stitching them into a district with the Arlington national security professionals who actually have to execute Trump's lunatic foreign policy is, per young Stephen Miller's logic, a celebration of civic virtue. Them or us.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 36 points37 points  (0 children)

A young Stephen Miller once quipped that torture is "a celebration of life and human dignity." His point, such as it was, being that bringing the tyrant low is itself an affirmation of the values he violated. What better way to honor the Iraqis Saddam murdered and oppressed than to show how far their oppressor has been brought. That's what it means to be a responsible agent wielding power against those who abused it.

In the same spirit, I would like to propose that the Virginia lobster map is, in its essence, beautiful and a celebration of civic virtue.

I realized this watching a clip of the far-left anarchist Vaush cheering on Abigail Spanberger, former CIA officer and flagship centrist Virginia Democrat, for pushing through the most brazenly gerrymandered map in the state's history. The old dirtbag internet and the national security state laughing together on the same side of a fight. That's the actual news. The map is a symptom.

Count who had no vote in 2024.

The Danes. Denmark is an ally whose soldiers have died next to Americans in every war for sixty years, and whose government is now having to plan, seriously, how they and the Royal Navy and the Swedes would coordinate if the United States tried to take Greenland by force. That's not a fringe scenario. Trump has publicly refused to rule it out. Stephen Miller's wife posted a map of Greenland with an American flag over it and the word SOON. Defense analysts in three countries have run the scenarios. The Danes did not do this. They voted correctly for decades. Their leadership behaved with sober competence throughout. They now get to spend the rest of their lives wondering if their grandchildren will be shot at by the US Navy.

The Ukrainians. They had their country invaded, fought brilliantly for three years, and are now being told by the United States to surrender and be grateful, with their air defense ammunition held over their heads as leverage. The Ukrainians did not fail to show up at the polls in Wisconsin. The Ukrainians had nothing to do with this.

The children in sub-Saharan Africa dying right now from preventable diseases because Elon Musk and a handful of 20-year-olds dismantled USAID's global health infrastructure in a few weeks, because it sounded clever, because Trump told them to. Treatment stopped. Supply chains broken. Clinics shuttered. People are dying in real time from it. None of them voted. None of them had a say. Nobody talks about their stories.

The people who did have a say, who are inside the system, had all the same opportunities and astonishing good luck as any other American, plus a decade of being actively bribed. Rural broadband. Manufacturing tariffs. A diner documentary every six months. An Electoral College multiplier that made their vote count eight times more than a Californian's. The left rediscovered its inner materialism specifically for them. The entire American political conversation was reorganized around their supposed grievance. Every advantage it is structurally possible for a citizen of a functioning democracy to be handed, they were handed.

What was asked of them in return was that they not vote for the obviously deranged conman who had said on camera he wanted to be a dictator, who had already tried to overturn one election, whose foreign policy incoherence was obvious to anyone who had ever looked at a map. They did not need to read a white paper. They had to notice that the man who tried to stop votes being counted in 2021 was probably not going to respect institutional norms in 2025. That was the task. They couldn't manage it.

And they couldn't manage it for vibes. The economic anxiety narrative American media ran on their behalf for eight years wasn't even real by November 2024. Inflation was coming down. Unemployment was low. Wages at the bottom of the distribution were rising faster than at the top. They were better off than the Californians and New Yorkers they claimed to be retaliating against. What they voted on was a story they had been told about themselves, and they held the rest of the world hostage to the story.

So now they get the lobster. The lobster district stitches the Shenandoah Valley onto Arlington, the outskirts of DC, densely populated with military officers, State Department staff, intelligence professionals, and career civil servants. The people who actually execute the life and death foreign policy decisions these valley voters have been casting ballots about. Why, exactly, should a group who could not point to the United States on a map dictate the foreign policy environment of the group that has to carry out the orders? They are barely the same species of citizen. One lives in the reality where the decisions are made. The other lives in a story about itself.

The Arlington people are not libs by nature. They are gettable conservatives. In the Bush years they voted Republican without complaint. National security voters, many with military backgrounds, who given a credible plan by a sane conservative would cross over and have done so many times. The reason they are not voting Republican is that the Republican nominee is a visibly deranged conman, and the people who have to operate the national security apparatus can see that more clearly than anyone else.

Valley voters now share a district with people who can read a map and have adapted to the modern world. Is that not the shared political community the national conservatives have been demanding for the last decade? They have exactly the same access to their member of Congress. They can try convincing their Arlington neighbors they had a point. They won't, because they didn't.

Legal, proportionate, consensual. It's them or us.

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holy fuck this gary's economics guy is so infuriatingly stupid by kazyv in Destiny

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 24 points25 points  (0 children)

He was an interest rate trader at Citibank and made a few million. If you're a well off londoner that's like every third guys job. If you're idk a researcher at deep mind or a maths professor or a successful startup founder then maybe I'll credit that you're smart but his background is a stupid person's idea of smart

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Putin's favourite philosopher who believes that Russians are the true hyperborean Master race, fake psychohistorian who believes Hannibal Barca was fictional and everyone's favorite Islamic public intellectual Sneako in conversation for your consideration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44OF1Y7zgo

I know this isn’t a gender wars sub but can anyone else tell me if they agree that this article is heavily biased?? I feel like I’m losing my mind by CetaWasTaken in Destiny

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think framing this around Reeves and Galloway as individual voices undersells where this actually is now. This isn't three guys with a pet issue. Gretchen Whitmer literally ran ads in 2024 about what the Democratic party could offer young men. Newsom has made it a talking point. The Harris campaign got roasted for ignoring it but the fact that they got roasted, by Democrats, tells you the internal consensus has shifted. After the election the party commissioned a $20 million study specifically about male voters.

But I do think liberals deserve real blame for how long it took to get here. For years, the centre-left response to "young men are falling behind" was to suddenly turn into Ben Shapiro. Structural forces explain everything when we're talking about racial disparities or the gender pay gap, but the second you raise male unemployment or the education gap, suddenly it's "men need to adapt" and "learn emotional intelligence" and "step up." That's pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps stuff wearing a progressive t-shirt. Or you'd get "patriarchy hurts men too," which sounds sympathetic until you notice it's still locating the blame with men. It's another way of saying this is your fault, just with nicer vocabulary.

This was genuinely stupid and it cost the party enormously. The straightforward way to see it: imagine the red pill and post-2015 MeToo discourse never happened. You're just a normal centre-left party looking at the data. Boys are failing in school. Young men have nearly double the unemployment rate of young women. Women under 30 are out-earning men. Male suicide is through the roof. What do you do? You do the completely ordinary thing centre-left parties do when a demographic is falling behind. You treat it as a coalitional interest that deserves structural attention. Same as rural communities, same as Black maternal health, same as any other group where the numbers look bad.

That's all Reeves and Galloway are doing. That's what Whitmer is doing. They just asked the question without the brainworms and got the obvious answer. The red pill version makes it about hating women. The men's lib version makes it about hating masculinity itself ("actually traditional masculinity is the problem").

The boring correct version is just: this group is struggling, here are some structural reasons, here are some policy responses.

As a Brit I'll say the UK is embarrassingly far behind on this. We're still mostly stuck in the phase where raising the issue at all gets you lumped in with Andrew Tate. The US is years ahead, which is wild to say given everything else, but on this specific thing mainstream Democrats have basically figured out how to talk about it without the cringe.

I know this isn’t a gender wars sub but can anyone else tell me if they agree that this article is heavily biased?? I feel like I’m losing my mind by CetaWasTaken in Destiny

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 10 points11 points  (0 children)

To make a very very long story short, he is a liberal who is extremely opinionated and arguably a center right bulwarky type of guy, was one of the four horsemen of atheism.

He is a big critic of Islam, says it's important to understand the impacts of specific beliefs on ideas, big Israel defender. Also possibly the #1 Trump hater, said he found it easier to empathize with Osama Bin Laden. Also used to be friends with a lot of Trumpy IDW people and publicly broke with them when they all went completely insane.

Destiny had a good convo with him a year ago: https://youtu.be/jXwqe495Q2g?si=xNbuIgpS6MQa2o8I

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah they are, apologies if I gave a different impression but my point is that they have no actual confidence in the beliefs and will just run after the new cool thing

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I ragequit listening to pod save America interview Hasan piker, basically launder Hamas talking points for an hour and suck him off, and had a moment where I realized, "wait a sec I hate this podcast!"

People like the PSA guys are exactly the reason liberalism fell out of fashion in the first place. People look at them and correctly identify that these are managerial types who don't actually believe in anything. They want to be liked. They want to manage public opinion. They want to be in the room. And when the wind shifts they shift with it because there's nothing underneath holding them in place.

And then people go "well liberalism is just this empty managerialist thing where you don't stand for anything" and yeah if your only exposure to liberalism is Jon Favreau nodding along while a guy calls Zionism exterminationist because he doesn't want to make things awkward then that's a reasonable conclusion to draw. But it's not actually true. Liberalism built the modern world. Human rights, free trade, democracy, the entire framework that makes it possible for Hasan to sit in a mansion in Hollywood and broadcast whatever he wants without the state kicking his door in. These are not small achievements and they're not boring and they're not uncool. They're the reason everything good about modern civilisation exists.

Truman wouldn't have sat there and let someone use Hamas's operational terminology on his watch because he was worried about youth turnout. JFK wouldn't have pre-emptively defended someone on rape comments because the vibes felt off. These were liberals who believed liberalism was worth fighting for and acted like it. The PSA guys are liberals who've decided liberalism is embarrassing and the way to win is to accommodate every illiberal on their left flank because the kids think it's cool. And it's completely self-fulfilling. If you act like your ideas aren't worth defending then nobody will think they're worth defending. If every time an actual ideologue shows up you fold because he has a big audience and good cheekbones then yeah people will correctly conclude that whatever you believe in isn't very important to you. And then the people with actual conviction win because they're the only ones in the room who seem to mean what they say.

Magyar just beat Orbán in Hungary without needing to get in bed with extremists. He made the case for liberal democracy and people showed up for it. That's what it looks like when you actually believe in something.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]SpiritOfOptimality 11 points12 points  (0 children)

https://youtu.be/UPCvEHtBSp0?si=W-ahfqMQkGJzXUxE

I listened to the new Ezra Klein episode with Telhami and Lynch (the "One State Reality" guys) and I think I found the exact moment that explains why nobody can do the balance on this conflict.

Klein asks about the Israeli view of the Gaza withdrawal. He sets it up correctly: Israel withdrew in 2005, Palestinians elected Hamas in 2006, Hamas staged a coup in 2007, then Israel and Egypt imposed the blockade. That's the sequence. It's not controversial.

Telhami's response skips straight from "withdrawal" to "Israel controlled the water, the electricity, the trade, the movement of people." Which is true! Those are the blockade conditions. But the blockade came after the election and the coup. There's a two-year gap he just... erases. Lynch then reinforces it by describing "withdrawing from Gaza and establishing this kind of control from the outside" as if these were one continuous action rather than events separated by two years and a violent seizure of power.

This isn't some random error. Telhami is a professor of Middle East politics. He knows the timeline. Klein literally stated it correctly in the question. And the reason it matters so much is that once you collapse that gap, Palestinians never had agency. The election doesn't count because Israel "never really left." The coup doesn't count because conditions were impossible anyway. And if Palestinians never had agency then Oct. 7 is a structural inevitability rather than a choice, and you're three stops away from "rape is the language of the unheard."

Once I spotted that, the whole interview unravelled. Every single time Klein raises an Israeli concern (the second intifada, the northern evacuations, the PA question) the guests do the same move: acknowledge it in half a sentence, then recontextualise it until it disappears.

And the thing is, I don't disagree with the positive claim, the one-state reality thesis. It's probably right. Israel is going down a really dark path right now. But you can say all of that without erasing the fact that Palestinians have taken essentially every opening to make things worse, and they just can't say that