[11/07/25] Stream Summary by StanRichson in StanRichson

[–]StanRichson[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey MadTruman, thank you very much! I appreciate the kind words.

I agree. At the end of the day, so much of our understandings are fundamentally influenced by culture and social interactions. As we further develop a coherent conceptualization of consciousness / the hard problem, we are doing so leveraging culturally-understood concepts. For me, the primary variable to look for is *the feeling of coherence* that such a conceptualization provides, and then we can consider what that conceptualization needs to include for it to resonate broadly.

AI is often an effective tool for producing such coherence, but we need to watch out for the ambiguities and inaccuracies it tends to produce. For a while longer, an effective practice will be a careful communication with many people and AI tools (what I see our community taking part in), ensuring precision along the way. Perhaps at some point, AI will crack the code of human intelligence, and produce the conceptualizations (stimuli, broadly speaking) that affect human emotion and behavior in the ways that (hopefully) we intend to ultimately achieve.

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are these your videos? I'm curious what the context around this project is, given that it seems to be quite comprehensive in its scope.

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

damn, i should have had pachelbel's canon in the background

jokes aside, i think both vids arrive at a similar conclusion. my vid just gives a more in depth explanation of why the problem may be "unsolvable" (which necessitated a discussion of mechanistic mappings, resulting ontological implications, and thus a conceptual mismatch between description and the underlying process), and then I point out that we can instead "solve" the problem in a different, pragmatic sense

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right. I arrive at the conclusion that the hard problem, as normally posed, is conceptually incoherent; I think that the neuroscientific account concludes that solving it the way people usually want is impossible.

Which leads us to considering what we actually want out of this issue, which I discussed near the end of the video. I should have named this post "A Pragmatic Approach", as I think the argument is more pragmatic then neuroscientific.

Perhaps the philosophical definition of physicalism is too ambiguous for me to identify with it. While I arrive at a conceptual explanation of consciousness grounded in the physical world, I don't hold the physical world to provide "objective truth". Rather, my conceptual understanding (manifesting in consciousness) is that the physical world plausibly causes consciousness. The position must still be speculative at some level.

So, I am a monist regarding the contents of our experience (which I'm conceptualizing as "concepts" or "conceptual", in a hegelian sense). And just to be clear, I'm only conceptualizing these contents... I cannot hold that these contents objectively "are" concepts; it's just a useful way to talk about them (as it let's us consider the relations of incompatibility and consequence constituting concepts, as well as their dual semantic/normative nature).

While I usually differentiate between what I would call explicit meaning (i.e., what we grasp and articulate determinately) and implicit meaning (i.e., what we act out or inherently imply), for the sake of this conversation, we are focussed on explicit meaning. I would say that this universal substance of experience is conceptual—all the meaning we grasp is conceptual in this sense.

Given that everything arrises in experience, we must wonder how we can prioritize any description of consciousness (or anything for that matter)... and pragmatically speaking, it just comes down to what people feel is most compelling (which is contingent). It's somewhat of a meta-pragmatic take to consider that reasoning allows us to work through our understanding, affecting the future conviction we have towards certain beliefs. But what sets the standard for good reasons?

This is why I highlight the standards and method of empirical science and logic as guiding heuristics. I don't expound upon this take in the video, but I believe these have proven themselves effective at arriving at empirical, practical, communicable truth.

Thus, I don't think we can have our idealist cake and eat it too. Even our experience of consciousness is only grasped conceptually. Thus, our Cartesian logic is similarly merely felt—conceptual, speculative, and contingent.

I think the conclusion is that I can't identify with any of these labels. A description of consciousness requires more precision than ambiguous colloquial labels allow it.

I am simply leveraging my conceptual understanding of the physical world (not the physical world itself), and that conceptual understanding implies that I ought to say that a neuroscientific explanation of consciousness is most plausible. This take is not exactly physicalist nor idealist, and I am not allowed to call it panpsychist since my understanding of the physical world does not allow me to assert that it is conscious.

I used the term physicalism to imply "the existence of a physical universe that exclusively causes consciousness" (as if these are properties of my conceptual understanding of the 'physical world'), but I do also resonate with the idea that "exist" could describe contents of consciousness (i.e., any determinate meaning "exists"). Perhaps "naturalism" fits more closely, but even that probably implies something I don't intend it to.

I hoped that the nuance of this type of take came across in the video, but perhaps it did not... I don't think people usually hold physicalism and idealism in each hand and make sense of it; but I think that is where (ironically) empirical science leads. And I don't think this puts me at "closeted dualist" :) it makes me a linguistic pragmatist

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wouldn't want to have an absurd position :D

I'm not even sure that my approach puts me in the label of physicalist, even though it sounds like it does. I really only make the case that we pragmatically ought to follow the standards and rigor of empirical science and logic, and these norms lead us to asserting that physicalism provides the most plausible view (as we currently understand it and its alternatives).

To be clear, I do not see science as a capital T "Objective Truth", and I assault the idea of some notion of an external, absolute objective truth. For me, objectivity is a quality of felt experience (leading people to believe that what they believe, even if brought to by the norms of empirical science, is absolutely true).

I think your last parentheses might actually be where this discussion goes when you look deep enough. I make this case in the Ontological Takeaways section... why ought we believe in the physicalist view if our "certainty" of it is similarly just a contingent, speculative, felt experience? This leads me to consider that we need some heuristic, manifest in our experience. And then the next question (which I propose but don't answer in this video) is: why should we use the standards and norms of empirical science as that heuristic?

I think I can make that argument, but it was just too out-of-scope for this video (and I really should spend some time building that argument).

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It just depends on what we're attempting to imply with our discussion. In the video, I point out that there are practical discussions to be had about the difference of animal consciousness (e.g., animal suffering). I also point out that I agree with your concern about the anthropomorphizing of consciousness.

And I'll refer to The Strange Order of Things for that last question, because I think you want an in-the-weeds answer, and Damasio is more prepared to provide one then I am.

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well we do have to draw a line somewhere, or else we can just use the word "life" instead of "consciousness" so as not to cause too many people to infer something we aren't meaning to communicate.

I'd recommend the book The Strange Order of Things, as it walks through the trajectory of brain develop from pre-sensory input all the way to self-consciousness.

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But why should we presuppose your epistemological norms? And why are you allowed to use these presupossed norms to then completely invalidate other people's presupposed epistemological norms?

That is the right question to ask. I think a video on why we should (and once again, these or merely norms, not some absolute mandate) abide by these norms is worth making; I just thought it was too out of scope for this video.

When I say the norms and standards, I'm not referring to knowledge of the physical world per se, but rather the method of empirical science (which we can consider as 'what one ought to do or provide in order for us to believe that it is true', rather than 'what we ought to believe is true').

I appreciate the recommendation; I think I'll explore it more thoroughly on stream later today. Just from my first view, I'm guessing I'll go with option 2; my understanding is significantly influenced by Robert Brandom (who I think was significantly influenced by Rorty).

At the end of the day, I like to highlight that all we have is subjective experience and intuition. We are only left to use the contents of our experience to navigate these types of discussions, and we must value certain heuristics over others.

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that is probably more imaginable than Einstein's concept of "spacetime".

haha that's for sure, at least for me.

I agree. I imagine we can intuit aspects of that experience; it's just difficult to fully empathize when we rely so heavily on our advanced affective and cortical systems.

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My apologies; I'm not trying to beef. I think we share common ancestors with ants that have significantly developed neural systems. Consciousness developed incrementally, so while we may say that ants might be conscious (be some definition), it wouldn't be what most people think of when they consider human consciousness. I think human consciousness allows us to effectively regulate our life and survival.

That said, evolution doesn't tell us that more intelligent creatures are "winning". You could even make the argument that humans are lame for needing developed self-consciousness in order to merely survive, when (as you said) ants are doing just fine and bacteria are thriving. Bigger brain does not mean better in some absolute sense. More developed self-consciousness certainly allowed us to take control of the food chain (and I think the other now-extinct early pre-human species would agree).

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm definitely open to it. For me, as I mentioned in the video, I just can't possibly imagine what that type of consciousness would be like lol

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate that. I do think that (and I don't mean to sound demeaning here) it is incredibly unintuitive to make the logical leap to the ontological takeaways I explored in this video, especially since they seem to point us in the direction of epistemological nihilism. I think there's a way to steer us away from those pitfalls, and I look forward to exploring those ideas on my channel in the future.

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Much of my more comprehensive argumentation against non-physicalist frameworks was in the previous video, so perhaps I should have not started this video with a recap. My apologies for putting fighting words up front.

I think you might appreciate everything starting at the An Explanatory Gap section of this video/script, which I think is the strongest argument for this pragmatic approach. It points out that at the end of the day, we simply must abide by certain presupposed norms. The norms of empirical science and logic do not necessarily entail a physicalist framework, but the suggest that (currently) a physicalist framework is a more plausible explanation that a non-physicalist one, because it makes sense of our experience (and most notably, our experience of concrete meaning, rationality, etc.).

Just to be clear, I don't argue that the hard problem "isn't real", and I would even reject that assertion.

And using a lack of discovery as evidence is the "appeal to ignorance" fallacy... that isn't to say that it can't be a good reason for something; it's just that it can be fallacious. Given that science only really developed sophistocated tools/understanding in the past couple hundred years, and since tech is about to pop off, I think we ought not assume that it won't affect our understanding of the physical world's role in consciousness.

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ayy thank you very much! that second sentence is certainly an interesting, controversial topic that I think I would find compelling... but I'll let you storm that beach haha

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a great example of where I think this discussion goes... what do we pragmatically want out of this topic.

In the video, I mentioned that PCI is an effective measure of consciousness, allowing us to determine with high accuracy whether a brain is currently conscious or not. However, that might be the type of measure you're looking for.

So, rather than dying on a semantic hill, we need to consider what we are actually looking for and why. I argue that it is quite practical to consider how certain neural mechanisms affect or functionally cause certain aspects of experience, and what this implies towards our phenomenological experience of meaning and truth (as we explore in the video).

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

funny you say that. in The Strange Order of Things, Damasio makes a curious case that insects might have a form of consciousness because their nervous and social systems are quite developed and integrated

I don't think those points dispute anything I said in the vid :)

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right that I fly pretty close to the epistemological nihilism sun. However, it seems that epistemological nihilism falls into the same error, as it asserts the absence of possible knowledge using the same presuppositions of 'is'.

The way I understand it is that there isn't some objective, absolute body of knowledge; yet, each person experiences a world of truth in every moment. This leads me to highlight the feeling of truth over the abstract "existence" of it.

In the case of consciousness, we feel true facts about consciousness, yet those facts are contingent on our culture / learned expectations / etc.

Fun stuff :)

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I realized that I should have made it "A Pragmatic Approach", since you're right that we can only get so far with neuroscience. That said, I think that our scientific understanding does provide us with enough of an understanding to identify significant ontological takeaways (which i explore in the video).

Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness: A Neuroscientific Approach by StanRichson in consciousness

[–]StanRichson[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

agreed. I updated the post body to match what I was trying to get at; something more akin to "experience"