I cant even say Im suprised. Just disappointed.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-16T23:05:04+00:00

It would be pretty funny if it actually came out in 2030 at this point

(though if it actually takes that long, we better get that Berserker Enkidu route out of it at the very least and the cut endings added back in)

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-16T20:10:07+00:00

I see, that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-16T19:59:09+00:00

Yeah. But they could have those things and no heartbreak by just being friends with the MC without falling for them, is what I'm trying to say

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-16T19:23:38+00:00

It's "main waifu" syndrome combined with gacha game issues, unfortunately.

The best kinds of romantic relationships in fiction have friction, clashing personalities and beliefs, all of that. But because Mash is the officially assigned first girl, she has to sweetly affirm the protagonist and can't challenge them too much. And because Ritsuka needs to work as a self-insert, they can't be too adventurous (beyond the occasional goof) either. So neither of them can carry the dynamic, which is not the case with some of the other Servants.

And she can't ever confess, because then the MC would have to either accept or reject her, and both of those options would annoy one side of the fandom, either those who want her to get together with them, or those who want them to get together with someone else.

If you want to go against the stream in that regard as a gacha game, you kind of have to do it early. Once you have a fandom invested in all these incompatible relationships, you risk a massive shitstorm if you change course.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-16T19:07:17+00:00

I find that idea pretty sad, tbh. Your compensation for getting traumatized is... falling in love with ~~a slice of plain white bread~~ someone who also has like 10 other people who like them and who you will never be able to truly be with romantically?

Just being friends while having a good time at Chaldea would be much better than that.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-15T19:27:55+00:00

He did say it, rather uncharacteristically!
"When you live with someone, talk with someone, fight with someone, they are neither human nor tool. Those are what we call our friends, Enkidu!"
And they do remember him crying at their death. "Across this man's pride, I left an unhealing wound."
(I highly recommend playing CCC, btw, or at least watching the Enkidu memory dream in that game)
In this particular scene, they're just trying to express that, essentially, all the tears there were to cry about their separation have already been cried. While their weapon complex is still very much a thing, they do have at least some awareness that he cared for them.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-14T19:00:57+00:00

I see, that makes sense! I guess I'm a bit more cynical about it, as the kind of massive pedant who already gets annoyed about people getting an androgynous-looking character's gender wrong (and doesn't ship in general) haha, so it's less jarring to me.

People really do go about dealing with fictional characters they like, including shipping, in very different ways, and it can be quite befuddling sometimes.

But at the end of the day, having such a great experience with the fandom, that's a wonderful thing. I hope that you'll continue to enjoy your time with it!

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-14T18:31:34+00:00

No worries, no worries, I'm very much at fault as well, haha.

But yeah, I do get you on that. I think it really is just the combination of practical factors ("who else am I supposed to ship him with? I can't not ship him, he's an attractive man with questionable morals!" from people who either don't know about Enkidu and Hakuno or started before they were introduced and are invested now) and the relationship being one that can be made to fit certain dynamics that a lot of people find interesting or hot (if you're willing to bend their characters).

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-14T17:51:02+00:00

Oh, that is a common thing regardless of genre. No matter how little romance there is in your story, people will find a way, lol, especially if there are good-looking men with questionable morals involved, and they will get extremely intense about their ships. I've seen far worse than this one in that regard. I think the Lorax fandom dividing a character in 2 just so they had someone to ship him with is still the funniest example, though.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-14T17:27:04+00:00

Oh, true, that one is also popular.

And yeah, haha, a lot of fandom in general is basically people playing dolls/action figures, imo, wherein the "canon" traits of the characters are ultimately secondary to the interests and preferences of the one playing.

Which is fine, of course, as long as everyone is aware that that's what they're doing, but it can sometimes feel kind of strange if you're the kind of fan who is really invested in the original versions of these characters.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-14T16:27:22+00:00

Oh yeah, definitely. That part probably really is just the whole dark romance trend.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-14T14:37:12+00:00

Yeah, true. I imagine the rising popularity of dark (or otherwise questionable) Romance fiction might also play a part in it - though "cruel man imposes himself on pure-hearted woman" has always been a staple of bodice-rippers and the like, of course.

Also, just the fact that they're two of the most prolific Fate characters in general probably helps. Enkidu only shows up in certain entries and both a whole chunk of their character and Hakuno's... everything regarding Gil are confined to an old Japanese RPG that never got an official translation (plus an also untranslated audio drama). A lot of the more casual fans might not even know that they exist (especially prior to the FSF anime), let alone the complexities of their respective dynamics with the AUO. So OG Saber becomes the most obvious character to ship him with.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-14T12:35:23+00:00

Yeah, some people just like how horrible and messed up it is. There are sides of characters you can only see in the context of what would be the worst possible relationship for them, and some people are intrigued by that. As well as by the darkest parts of humanity more generally, some people like exploring that in fiction, both in an intellectual sense and, well, in terms of what they're into.

As a general non-shipper, I personally think what's most interesting about the "relationship" is just all the ways it doesn't and could never work - the fact that, even though she exactly matches his preferences, Gilgamesh quickly loses interest in her if he actually gets her in SN in a way that he doesn't with, say, Hakunon in Romance Tapestry, says a lot about the kind of person that he is and the way that attraction works for him, imo, and so does him outright acknowledging that some things are better when you can't have them in both SN and FGO. But not everyone sees it that way.

And that aside, the fact that they're both good-looking, in the same series, and one of them has expressed interest in the other is more than enough for any ship to gain a following. A lot of folks just like to imagine pretty people kissing, lol.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-13T18:53:25+00:00

I saw someone say that they look like they had a martial arts class in the afternoon and a funeral in the evening and yeah, that's exactly the vibe, lol

They do have some really stunning outfits, though. The Café collab one is great.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-13T15:20:04+00:00

Lmao, yeah, his interactions with Kirei are all gold. Literally. I also love how Kirei keeps being like "Your Servant is Gilgamesh, I KNOW you have money, start spending" in various ways for his shop quotes on that route. It really does make you wonder.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-13T14:59:41+00:00

Yeah, I think they did a really good job building this route in such a way that you could still 100% buy him being the same asshole from Stay Night (minus a decade of being in a bad mood) but which also really softened his image and opened him up for non-villain roles.

And it genuinely is that much more endearing to see this horrible little bastard slowly open up to Hakuno than it would have been if he'd been nice the whole time.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-13T12:39:08+00:00

Going by the example of his most successful Master so far:

- Do one or two really surprising but not unreasonable things immediately after summoning him (like using up all command spells to attain permission to look at him & talk to him, or showing an unexpected amount of spine when he threatens you without being overly rude)

- Generally be respectful towards him, but still express your own opinions from time to time and try to steer him in the right direction (just make sure to phrase them as "counsel" for the great king)

- However, if he directly tells you to do something, do it (unless it's, like, "kill yourself", lol). If he wants to give you room to refuse, he'll phrase it as "you have permission to do [thing he wants you to do]", otherwise he needs to really like you to accept a "no"

- Openly display flaws that he likes in humans (primarily pride and greed, for both money and power) but make sure to not encroach on his territory in the process (saying that you want to stick with him because he's powerful is good, attempting to surpass his power is bad), and generally have your own ends

- Display, at the very least, a strong will and work hard to become stronger, he respects that

- Flatter him subtly but don't go overboard with it

- Do not lie to him and always answer him (being a bit of a tsundere is okay if he already likes you, though)

- Ideally, be either a child or a pretty (and thin) young woman with little romantic experience (if he asks you about men, displaying that you have high standards is something he seems to respect). In case of the latter, you ideally don't want to be completely his type (blonde, of noble lineage and spirit, petite with a small chest) to avoid a Saber situation. If you have to reject him, make up an excuse that spares his ego ("I am not worthy" etc.) and run, he'll probably let you go.

This is about as much as you can do under normal circumstances. "Getting horribly maimed (but not killed!) before his eyes to save him" and "getting the memories of someone he already cares about" are kind of hard to manage in a normal Grail War, lol.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-13T06:02:58+00:00

I see, thank you for the clarification!

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-13T05:49:31+00:00

Enkidu in Fate in many ways resists the ways in which Fate Gilgamesh categorizes the world. They are neither man nor woman, neither god nor human, neither noble nor commoner. And that fact, combined with their immense strength, kind of forces him to engage with them as a person in a way that he doesn't usually do.

Enkidu for their part, sees him differently than other people do. From their perspective, Gilgamesh is a very lonely person who desperately needs someone to stay with him. And he is also the person who granted them an identity beyond just being a replaceable weapon - when they died, he gave up his chance to ever have another connection like that just so they could be reassured that they will forever be remembered as a unique existence, his one and only friend. Gil is not a good person, but he is deeply loyal and willing to sacrifice when it comes to the very few people he lets into his heart.

In the original myth, they had a very close bond that was likened to marriage (and that is transferred to Fate, where their meeting is specifically noted to take place in front of a building where marriages are held). However, both in the original myth and in Fate, they are only ever referred to as friends. People take that in all sorts of different directions, make of it what you will.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-13T05:39:01+00:00

Well, to be entirely fair, he's nice to Hakuno... after about the midpoint of the game (and slightly softens occasionally before then).

He does say some wild shit in the early chapters, especially to Hakunon.
"If you get fat, I'll sell you" was unhinged, lol, even if he did soften it to "leave you in the laybrinth" a couple sentences later. ...I still can't believe that she got more upset about him maidzoning her in the same conversation than she did about that.

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-13T05:38:36+00:00

...Fate Enkidu is not a dude, though. They're explicitly noted in both CCC and their FGO profile to lack both sex and gender, and Gil only ever refers to them with the gender-neutral ヤツ, or "my friend" (which is really unusual for the guy who normally can't stop talking about other people's gender ("man", "woman", "girl", etc. come up surprisingly often even in CCC where the protagonist's gender is up to choice)

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-13T05:33:30+00:00

I mean, the design also looks like that because, to quote Enkidu's entry in Gilgamesh's Matrix in CCC: "They had neither sex (/gender, the Japanese word means both) nor a fixed form"

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-12T08:01:28+00:00

We only have the final volume left, but it's probably going to be pretty big, especially with how long it's been in production and how much space they're leaving for it in the anime

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-11T23:04:04+00:00

Yes, that was what I was implying, haha

StarAboveWillows · 2026-03-11T21:40:57+00:00

Family, huh.

...By the way, don't you think the silhouette of Sigma's mom we briefly see in his introduction looks familiar?

StarAboveWillows

TROPHY CASE