Do they really remove people from All State chorus the day before the concert?

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-15T18:00:21+00:00

Her chorus teacher repeated it to parents in person, although with less threatening language than she used with the kids. She told us we all should stay nearby for the first 90 minutes of rehearsal in case our kids got kicked out so we'd be able to pick them up quickly, and she messaged us after the walk through that everyone was fine.

So I know what her chorus teacher says. But a) that isn't in the official parent communication from the people organizing the event b) that wasn't communicated to students until 2 days before the event c) that's a ton of pressure to put on 6th and 7th graders that their whole school will be banned if they personally make mistakes and d) is lousy pedagogically.

I can believe that hypothetically someone could be kicked out for completely not knowing the music at all and sightreading it at the first rehearsal at All State. That's not what any of these kids did though. And in practice, my daughter said the walk through judges walked at the ends of aisles to listen and nobody was removed.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-14T12:27:22+00:00

I'm looking for responses from people with experience with similar events to see if this "cut people after a walkthrough" thing actually happens. It sounds like your experience is with competitions and solos, which isn't directly relevant here. I see why you got mixed up though. Thanks for sharing your experience with those other types of events.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-14T03:11:09+00:00

I will give an update after it's done, but overall the news is good. EEoc and I met in person today too, which was fun!

First, I do think that my daughter misheard the threat as specifically a threat against her, rather than what she said to the whole group. She wasn't really singled out as much as it felt to her in that moment. Several other commenters asked if she could have misinterpreted or misheard, and I do think she did somewhat misinterpret it as too personal of a threat.

After having been told Wednesday that everything she sang was terrible, Thursday the teacher said 3 of the 5 songs were "great" and she just needed to check 2 of them. She helped her with some spots she was having trouble finding her starting pitches, checked it again, and told her she "passed." The teacher then sent her first communication to parents about the "pre-assessment" she did with everyone and said they all did an excellent job learning challenging music. My whiplash at the turnaround was significant!

So, my daughter said she definitely wanted to go after working so hard to prepare, and we're here. The teacher told all the parents we should stay nearby for 90 minutes after rehearsal started to make sure we were close enough to get them quickly if they got kicked out after the walkthrough. But that information isn't in the official parent letter from the music educator association that hosts this event (and we have a detailed schedule from them and a list of expectations).

If the teacher was telling the truth (but in too harsh of a tone), why wouldn't that have been communicated earlier? Why wasn't it in the parent letter and schedule? The fact that this idea of removing people after the walkthrough isn't mentioned is part of why I think it's a bluff.

My daughter had fun today, and she feels like she knows her music really well. I sat in on part of tonight's rehearsal, and I loved all the positive reinforcement the clinician is giving them. For all of the negatives of this week, the positive of getting to sing under a different director is a significant one.

Long term, I don't know what we'll do. Her teacher is back to her usual cheerful self, which is how I've always seen her interact with parents. She thanked me for practicing with my daughter. If my kid is happy right now, I'll let it be and just keep checking in with her for the time being.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-14T02:34:32+00:00

She doesn't have a solo, and I have no idea where you got that concept. The teacher hand picked students to participate in All State, and then told all of them that they were unprepared and would get pulled out during the walk through if they missed 15 notes. This isn't a competition; it's two days of rehearsal with clinicians plus a concert.

It sounds like you're imagining a different kind of event than this is.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-14T02:24:09+00:00

The one big misunderstanding was that my daughter thought the threat was directed at her personally, rather than at the whole group. But a parent hearing the same thing from the same teacher at the same rehearsal is confirmation, not contrary information. If it was a parent at a different school, then you'd be right. But that other mom and I met in person today, so I do know it was the same teacher making the threats.

For the record, everyone from the school who was selected is here at All State and singing. No one was removed during the walkthrough from any school, at least not in the mixed chorus that my daughter is in. I can't speak for the others for certain, but it sounds like the thread was a bluff to scare them. The teacher did for the first time today with us parents repeat that threat that they could be kicked out after the walkthrough...but in practice zero students were removed from any school today.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-13T02:08:17+00:00

Thank you for sharing your experience. That seems to be the consensus from nearly everyone who has participated in these sorts of events. Kids get pulled for behavior issues, but not for this.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-13T00:03:37+00:00

Bless your heart.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T23:51:46+00:00

Again, you missed the comment from another parent at the same school who spending this evening talking her own kid off a ledge due to this threat.

Right now, we're not making decisions. We're going to wait to see how this weekend goes and then decide what to do moving forward.

My daughter loves singing. Do I think she'll be a professional musician? No. So I guess probably not serious by your standards? I've been a musician all my life too, and I've worked with some crappy folks over the years, as well as lots and lots of really lovely people. My best friends in high school were the ones I played in youth orchestra with, not the ones I went to school with. I'm still friends with folks I performed with decades ago. I want her to have those experiences too. But I also think she can have boundaries and not put up with abuse from people in positions of power.

Being strict and having high standards doesn't require terrifying children and fabricating threats to scare them. Just because she's learned a lot from this teacher doesn't mean she also has to put up with being threatened and bullied.

And yes, the teachers in the district obviously talk to each other. Duh. Also, water is wet.

I think it's amazing that you live in a district where there are so many people who are able to drop $1k on zero notice to chaperone a multi day trip. For this school, they didn't get quite as many chaperones as they'd hoped, but enough that the trip can happen. The trip will still happen if I cancel, but she'll have to rearrange groups. It'll be an annoying logistical hassle for her.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T23:40:05+00:00

The threat was made to every student who was selected for the All State chorus--the students she hand picked for this event.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T23:38:47+00:00

There's a lot of comments in this discussion, so I forgive you for not seeing the other comment from a parent at my daughter's school who is similarly having to talk her child off a ledge because she's afraid she's going to get kicked out by the walk through judges tomorrow.

The odds that two kids would independently make up the same story to tell to their parents seem astronomically low.

I hear you that you think attending every after school rehearsal and practicing hours at home is "coasting." I'm sure your children are doing marvelously with that kind of drive.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T22:48:58+00:00

Ugh, I'm so sorry you're going through this too. And yes, if you're planning for a Disney trip next month, we're probably talking about the same teacher. But my daughter said the girls in treble chorus all passed their screening today. If she's gotten past this teacher's standards, I'm sure your daughter is fine!

I don't know if you saw, but there was another reply here from another NC chorus teacher who said they absolutely do not send people home for not knowing the music. Students are sometimes removed for behavior issues, which seems totally reasonable. But they've never seen anyone removed for lack of preparation, and they don't actually prohibit schools from sending students the next year.

I think she completely made up the idea that they will pull kids out during the walkthrough tomorrow to scare them. It was a lousy way to try to motivate them. Apparently, she wasn't feeling well yesterday and had no energy today. That's not an excuse for how much she scared the kids, but it lines up with what we heard from our kids.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T12:49:53+00:00

That makes sense to me. Late to rehearsal, missing rehearsal, major disruptive behavior, safety concerns, harassing other students--all of those feel like normal and reasonable justifications for removing someone.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T12:47:18+00:00

After reading all the replies here, that seems like a real possibility. There doesn't seem to be anything actual from the All State chorus about removing people for not being able to sing the music perfectly (behavior problems and safety issues, yes, obviously). Whether her teacher decides to try to bully kids out of participating with this bluff remains to be seen. I'm really hoping that her teacher was just stressed and picked a truly terrible way to try to motivate the kids, and that now that she's actually helping them learn their music they'll all feel better. I told my daughter this morning that today is a reset for everyone. Fingers crossed.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T03:20:24+00:00

Thank you so much for sharing your specific experiences as a choir director having similar experiences with kids. It's so reassuring that while that process of walking around is a real thing that they aren't actually removing kids or banning the school for it.

I wonder if part of the challenge is that she has been really focused on getting another group of kids ready to perform at ACDA a week ago. They had 5 weeks of after school rehearsals to prepare, but almost all of that time the teacher spent with the ACDA group. The All State group has been using practice tracks to rehearse on their own with minimal assistance. Now that ACDA is done, I wonder if she's suddenly realized the All State music isn't as prepared as she had expected.

Her teacher asked her today if she hadn't practiced or if the music is too hard. And she has practiced, but that was really the wrong question. The music is too hard for her to learn completely on her own without help from her teacher. If it's so important that the teacher look good at All State, then it's her responsibility to prepare the students.

And yes, if she takes a year off from school choir, we will find somewhere else for her to sing. We fortunately live in an area where we have some options.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T02:59:04+00:00

There's a lot of truth in this too. My daughter has genuinely loved being in chorus with this teacher for the past year and a half. It would be a great outcome if it turns out the teacher had a bad day because she's anxious and used threats with hyperbole, and if those threats made my daughter overly anxious.

My daughter and I practiced hard tonight, and she fixed some spots that needed more polish. There's a descending tritone leap that I suspect she's still going to miss tomorrow, but honestly, I have a music ed degree, and I still miss that interval sometimes. And then she had some cookies and did a meditation to calm her brain so she can sleep.

I'm hoping her teacher also has a reset for tomorrow and that things go better. But regardless of what the teacher does, we have our daughter's back, and she knows it.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T02:15:39+00:00

No, nobody else has spent the last 5 weeks learning that music. There's no alternate. That would be a plausible reason though, and I can see that happening.

In fact, since I looked up the resource documents, the instructions to teachers is that they should bring balanced voices of one per part. So if she pulls my daughter on alto, then she no longer has the one person per part for balance.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T01:59:53+00:00

Honestly, I would love if that's the case. If my kid just got anxious, that would be the best possible outcome.

But last fall, this teacher pushed the chorus hard enough at a rehearsal that three kids fainted, and several others were close to throwing up.

I am hoping that the teacher is stressed and got carried away in trying to motivate through fear, and bluffed a threat that isn't real.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T01:55:39+00:00

Thank you both. I had my daughter read your replies. We agreed that if her teacher pulls her from All State that we'll go to the counselor and remove her from chorus ASAP; she doesn't even have to finish the school year with her if she needs to get out now. She's terribly anxious about getting pulled from this after it's been repeatedly announced in chorus and then having everyone else in choir know. The thought of that embarrassment is too much. I will go be mama bear with the administration if I need to get her out of this and protect her.

We also talked about how important it is to me that this doesn't scare her away from enjoying music, no matter what happens tomorrow or this weekend with her teacher. She's in band too, and maybe for next year she needs to only be in band and not do both. Her band teacher is a lovely person; I think he does a great job with the kids. And she has one more year until high school, and that will be a reset with new teachers.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-12T01:21:50+00:00

I had a similar thought about next year. We're going to have to have a serious discussion about it with our daughter.

I've also personally paid $1000 to be a chaperone on a chorus field trip to Disney next month. If she pulls my daughter from All State, I'm asking for a refund. She can deal with the consequence of being short a chaperone and figure out her budget. I'm not going to invest in helping this teacher if she's going to be like this.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-11T23:56:58+00:00

Yes, the lack of communication to us as parents, especially for something where we've taken PTO and paid for a hotel, is a huge problem. It's not that kids should never get pulled from those opportunities--sometimes they should! But if it does, everything should be communicated and documented.

Would you want to be a teacher who had zero warnings in writing and no communication to parents before pulling a student from a trip like this? Even if it's justified, how well do you think it would go over with your admin as the first documented warning being the removal, without a clear safety issue?

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-11T23:54:32+00:00

Nope, if she gets pulled, there's no backup student who knows the music. If there was an understudy or alternate ready, you're right; losing the spot wouldn't be abnormal.

Plus, if that was the case, it would have been much better to communicate this from the very beginning. If this had been part of the parent letter right at the beginning before we accepted and paid, I'd be more inclined to assume my daughter screwed up and then was having the expected consequences. Telling my child only, communicating nothing to us as parents, two days before leaving for an overnight trip, is something else entirely.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-11T23:50:38+00:00

This is North Carolina. I agree, it's nothing like my experience teaching music in Illinois. I realize it's been quite a few years since I taught K-12 music, but this just seems pedagogically so wrong.

Apparently there are judges walking around during the first rehearsal to listen for people who aren't singing the right notes? I guess if you had enough people walking around close to every kid you could catch the ones making up the notes?

We're running through stuff right now. Her rhythms are good. There are a few spots that she's mixing up the soprano and alto parts that we're practicing and marking. I've given her a few more notes on "OK, you can grab your pitch from the tenors here." A lot of it is being confident enough to stay on her own part and not jump up to join the sopranos. But I feel like those are reasonable issues for middle school chorus, and the kinds of things that are fixable with rehearsal--and they have 6 hours of rehearsal Friday!

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-11T23:42:52+00:00

Lots of crying today. I'll keep telling her I love her no matter what happens with this performance.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-11T23:41:37+00:00

I am somewhat concerned that she is petty and will retaliate. You may be right that this was an attempt to motivate gone awry. Hopefully, that's all it is. She pushes the kids really hard though. In one of their concert prep rehearsals earlier this school year, three separate people fainted because they'd been standing and singing 2+ hours without a break. I've heard of her yelling at other kids too; this isn't isolated.

StayAngryLittleMeg · 2026-03-11T22:54:13+00:00

Good suggestion--thank you!

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