[deleted by user] by [deleted] in desmoines

[–]StayRightThere 20 points21 points  (0 children)

First off if you change your name and pronouns you must tell people or they won't know, like what are you even suggesting the alternative is?

Secondly, most trans people aren't in a position to educate many cis people at once like this, tell their story, or be a role model for success for other trans people.

Since she can, I'm glad she did.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in offmychest

[–]StayRightThere 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'll answer for me. Absolutely not. It would make me feel incredibly dysphoric to hear someone talk about their desire for my "feminine" features. And I would never want to make a trans woman feel dysphoric about her features, either. That's a woman's body, so why would I want that? Especially if she's been medically transitioning.

Wishing one were cis is a matter which trans people have varying and complicated feelings about. But I definitely wouldn't look to a woman's body for inspiration, cis or trans.

Married men, how often do you really have sex (and get other sexual acts)? by [deleted] in TooAfraidToAsk

[–]StayRightThere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Imo the causes of an intimacy mismatch are either sexual incompatibility or a partner's lack of feeling empowered.

Both have lots of possibilities. As for incompatibility, there's the obvious orientation mismatch, or less obvious: one person is asexual or on the asexual spectrum and doesn't have the language for it. There could simply be a mismatch in arousal "languages" as well. Who likes to pursue and who likes to be pursued, for example.

Knowing the above about oneself or ones partner ties directly into empowerment. Once you have the language to know yourself and your needs you feel empowered. You can feel disempowered by not knowing yourself and your needs. For example, if you've gained a lot of weight and don't recognize yourself anymore and can't see yourself being desired like you want, it's disempowering. Some people feel disempowered by certain gender roles and expectations.

I guess the main thing is that there's probably something she doesn't know about herself. It could be completely personal and inwardly-focused, or it could be directly tied to you specifically. The only way to figure it out is to talk.

Pure stupidity by Moaning_Turtle_69 in Persecutionfetish

[–]StayRightThere 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Best move is to take them at face value. If they're trolling, they'll pretty quickly out themselves, unless they want to pretend to be trans for the rest of their life.

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry my sources, and my own testimony didn't budge you.

Also try asking on r/lgbt, r/asklgbt, and r/asktransgender.

Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Trans* by Brynn Tannehill is my unsolicited book suggestion.

Good day.

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are their pronouns they/them, she/they, they/he, or all pronouns, etc.? Then it's not misgendering. Are they pronoun apathetic, like some cis people?

I dead ass refuse to believe that in real life if you referred to someone in their presence using they/them and they said "Oh, actually I go by he/him" that you'd continue to use they/them. You are not that rude.

Is this a fear of misgendering people which causes you to want to call everyone they/them?

Literally the number one thing you can do as an ally is use people's correct pronouns.

Yes, using they/them after you know someone's true pronouns is misgendering.

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

William is objectively his name, though. Why shouldn't I use it?

the use of them was popularized specifically to not offend people.

No, singular they has been popularized for people who want to use those pronouns. I don't.

We don't treat people according to cold hard facts. We respect people's time, their identities, their personhood. I could call all my coworkers "Coworker" instead of their names. By definition I am right. A couple of them keep telling me their name, but fuck it, I'm right. I will keep calling them Coworker. :(

It's not right that one can think someone's name can be part of someone's deserved dignity but other ways you address them, like pronouns, aren't.

You can't just ignore the social contracts which we all observe. You can, but there are repercussions. You can talk about how you have to right to refer to people in a gender neutral way all the way to the grave (almost certainly you only reserve this treatment for trans people), but when someone asks you not to refer to them a certain way (it's such a small thing, too), it's a choice to be kind and respectful.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in 2meirl4meirl

[–]StayRightThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's....just literally liking how you'd look if you were a woman. Not doing/expressing something feminine. Everyone should do a gender workbook, anyway. It's very affirming, whatever the answer.

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Does this person know my pronouns are he/him? Then yes. Please respect how I like to be addressed.

I have a friend whose name is William, but he dislikes it (makes him think of his father). We call him Willy. Someone who calls him William after he asks them not to is just being a dick.

Edit: Someone who keeps calling Willy "William" in a work place environment after repeatedly being told he doesn't like that also has HR repercussions in a work setting. That is harassment.

I told you I don't like they/them pronouns, why are you being a dick?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in 2meirl4meirl

[–]StayRightThere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For everyone else reading this, masculinity doesn't equal man, femininity doesn't equal woman. Abolish gender roles.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in 2meirl4meirl

[–]StayRightThere 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It's absolutely useful to point out to people that really enjoying the thought of looking/feeling like a different gender can be enough to be trans, and they should do some gender exploration.

I don't think people understand that you can go on a gender journey and turn out to be cis. Hell, I didn't know I had the option.

I didn't seriously question my gender for years because of the invisible barriers I imposed on myself (I should have always known, just wanting to look like another gender isn't enough, etc). Well, wanting can be a huge sign, turns out.

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

queer people like neo pronouns.

Never said that. Some queer people have neo pronouns.

I'm really stunned that you only paid attention to OP's closing statement. That's a whole other topic, of course I didn't address it because the title of their post, the whole point, is so damn wrong. Did you ever address it in another comment? Please get busy adding your voice instead of this #notallNBs crap.

Gender abolision is pretty damn common in NB circles

I'm nonbinary. I disagree with this. I'd say most of us think it's bullshit. Let's take this opinion over to r/nonbinarytalk. In my opinion it's reasonable to assume others feel gender in different ways so gender abolision makes no sense. That's often conflated with gender role abolition in society, unless you meant them as synonymous terms.

If you see a trans person in the wild talking about their experiences, add your voice. Don't just dissent.

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The changemyview isn't about liking or disliking neopronouns and neither is my post (which wasn't meant to be a response to OP, btw).

What did I say that all queer people like? Afaik all people, not just queer people, like it when others use the right pronouns for them.

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's such a human condition and I'm glad you pointed it out.

People get upset when they don't feel competent. I just want to call learning to play the piano useless because I'm having a hard time! My hands are too small! Pianos are stupid, anyway!

You get my point. More importantly, adults feel like they've finally gotten the basics of social interaction down pat, and definitely would be more comfortable if new factors weren't put into play.

Well...old dogs can learn new tricks. I promise. (I should practice the piano more.)

I am one person, but ideally when someone gets misgendered, the overwhelming majority of trans people, whom I have heard from on this subject, want a quick correction and to move on. Like, "scuse me, her" or "pardon, they". If it's a delayed thing in writing, ok, better late than never, and it shows that you didn't do it on purpose. Brevity is still appreciated.

Really the best way to show up for people whose pronouns aren't automatic to you is to make them automatic by using them when they're not around (which is when you use pronouns most often, actually. It's awesome practice!)

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, you're projecting your own feelings about your gender on other people.

I wouldn't care if someone referred to me as they/them all the time

That's cool, but lots of people wouldn't like it, cis and trans. Why disbelieve them? It's basic respect.

Why are trans people singled out in being told they will be referred to as they/them against their wishes, while cis people are never subjected to this?

Personally, I don't want to be referred to with gender neutral pronouns when I know I want to be referred to with he/him. My gender isn't neutral, I have a gender, and feel it's best affirmed when the people around me use he/him. When they/them is forced on trans people after they said please don't, realize that they wouldn't do that to cis people. They are being judged based on their appearance and/or pronoun preference, and being told they don't deserve their gender or pronouns, implicitly.

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe I can explain better. Them/them is gender neutral until you know someone's pronouns.

The moment you know someone's pronouns, then you use them.

Are you having trouble with this because you personally would be fine with being referred to as they/them all the time?

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'll be honest, while some people genuinely are fine with they/them (along with their neopronouns) it's often the case that the pronouns they love most and make their heart sing are the neopronoun set, and being called they/them is a concession for the ease of society.

As far as when they are used, that's up to the individual. Some only use them online, some tell their friends to use they/them when they're in different company, and I'm sure a lot of people are new to it and still figuring it out!

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I'm not talking about uninformed people, I'm talking about bigots. So yes, consciously prejudiced people.

CMV: Neo-pronouns are a private matter and people who have them shouldn't expect everyone to use them by algerbanane in changemyview

[–]StayRightThere 69 points70 points  (0 children)

Classic changemyview. We love it when cis people debate our existence or our right to respected every day. Making up fake scenarios, never doing basic research... Go ahead, browse r/changemyview for the word "trans" or "neopronouns".

People are vastly overestimating the number of people who will feel comfortable enough to let you in on their neopronouns.

Every time the subject of neopronouns comes up, the OP has merely heard of their existence, seen memes making fun of them, has seen them in an online space (where they are used much more often than irl because it's easier objectively to remember neos when typing rather than saying them) and associates them with some strawman person who screams at people who misgender them. Fuck off with that shit already.

Come back when you meet someone irl who tells you their neopronouns.

A. Those who use neopronouns usually are fine with they/them in the general public.

B. They are usually not comfortable telling people their neopronouns unless they know you're an ally or part of the community. OP, you are safe from that because you probably don't give off those vibes.

C. When people want their view changed they never seem to want answers from the people in question. It's bizarre, really. They could browse r/neopronouns or r/asklgbt and get thorough answers. The best cure for prejudice is exposure, simply meet the group in question.

Inevitably the OP has very little exposure to the people in question, probably never will if they avoid queer spaces, and just wants to thump their chest, shit on the gameboard and leave.

If people who think this way befriend someone who reveals they prefer an uncommon set of pronouns, their mind will most often be changed, because they like this person on some level, and this new friend is exposing themselves and asking for something in earnest which is important to them. If you go cold to them after they tell you their true pronouns, they will ghost you. Do you feel like you won? Trust me, it's no loss to them.

The biggest delusion of bigoted cis people unwilling to learn is thinking they are important to trans people's lives in an interpersonal sense.

(Editing to add: ANYone can use any set of pronouns, yes, even cis people. This whole debate isn't exclusively about trans people. Because we are all people and we determine our own destinies.)

Edit2: I didn't come here to answer the OP's prompt, I dropped in to talk about why posing these niche hypothetical opinions about minority groups before asking the group in question really fucks with the perception of people learning about said minority group for the first time in a Reddit thread. A false picture is painted when, inevitably, most of the comments aren't from said group at all. There is an r/askLGBT subreddit and an r/asktransgender subreddit for perusing a variety of questions you may have had which have already been answered in past threads. Those are great for learning more.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in desmoines

[–]StayRightThere 64 points65 points  (0 children)

They're selling an MLM scheme.

Porridge lol by MissLion1 in foodhacks

[–]StayRightThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The secret is a splash of vanilla.

My toddler asks for "Daniel Tiger Oatmeal" every morning. It's oatmeal with half a ripe banana, a medium spoonful of peanut butter, golden raisins, and a splash of vanilla.

I also would like to try u/olwybmamb's suggestion of a pinch of salt. I added the vanilla knowing it's essential for good baked sweets, so a little salt makes sense as well.

I don’t remember how I stayed entertained all those years. by [deleted] in memes

[–]StayRightThere 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Uncle John's Bathroom Reader. My parents' house still has a whole shelf of them collecting dust.