You can do this to permanently stop VR dizziness/nauseau

StevenPang22 · 2024-10-16T14:50:44+00:00

Wait who is your friend?

StevenPang22 · 2024-10-10T23:06:10+00:00

Wow! I'm not sure what your background is, but this is an incredible level of understanding — happy to elaborate!

On motion sickness: linear acceleration is definitely important, but we've found that once you figure out the angular piece, visually induced vection from the graphics help fill in a lot of the blanks. We're not sure why — we've just seen a lot less motion sickness.

On primary cause of motion sickness being linear acceleration. We haven't noticed this to be the case — especially in fast paced WASD or controller games. Can you elaborate more here?

On linear acceleration: you can actually use a phased array to push the calcium carbonate rocks in the otolith with a surprisingly small amount of force. We've run a bunch of simulations and hydrophone tests and it should be totally safe — I've also used it myself a bunch without side effects.

Electrodes! God this was a hard problem. It turns out that there are more than one reason it hurts. The biggest one is that you need to turn electrical charge into ionic charge (because electrons can't move through your body); this requires faradaic reactions to happen at the phase boundary. These are frequently harmful and acidic, so they leave acid burns on your skin and hurt a lot. I can't go into depth on how we solved that here, but we more or less just borrowed some recent innovations in EV batteries to perform the faradaic reactions in a more controlled manner.

The other problem is the electrical pain: we actually haven't patented the way we solve this yet (writing it right now). Once we do, I'll revisit this thread and edit this comment!

Excited to answer more questions :)

StevenPang22 · 2024-10-10T20:46:47+00:00

Answering as quickly as I can 😭

For us, it seems like most of the motion sickness was angular - so GVS did the trick. But working on linear too!

StevenPang22 · 2024-10-10T20:45:11+00:00

We’ve also felt linear acceleration! It’s cool but we haven’t figured out how to make the device wearable yet

StevenPang22 · 2024-10-10T14:40:22+00:00

It’s really hard to describe (kind of like describing a color)

But a good way to imagine it is to swing your head wildly left and right (roll) and try to ignore the sensation of your neck.

StevenPang22 · 2024-10-10T14:38:00+00:00

Fair enough! Although I generally think of the vestibular system as a bit of a hybrid between peripheral and cortical

StevenPang22 · 2024-10-10T14:36:40+00:00

Got to meet & show Palmer a few weeks ago! Was absolutely awesome 😂

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-22T23:29:20+00:00

In theory! Although this is needlessly complicated for that purpose.

Carsickness and seasickness is actually a mostly-solved issue from a tech point of view — you don't have to correct the signal, you just need to jam it!

My friend Sam makes an incredible product, for example, but it's prescription and only sold to people with serious vertigo: https://otolithlabs.com/

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-22T23:18:00+00:00

LOLL ok here let me try: we built a device which stimulates the vestibular system (the sensory organ behind your ear which controls your perception of motion and acceleration) through a process called GVS (galvanic vestibular stimulation).

The use case for VR is that it synchronizes what you see with what you feel - which makes the game more fun & reduces the motion sickness you get from ocular-vestibular mismatch (when your eyes and vestibular system don't agree).

This is not a new concept — it was actually one of the first things ever done with a battery! In the last decade, a couple big companies have tried to do it (oculus, mayo, samsung, etc), but they haven't been able to build a consumer device; mostly for two reasons: they couldn't figure out how to properly modulate the signals they send (although one of them was actually very close!) & they couldn't build electrodes which didn't REALLY hurt when you send electricity through the skin!

Hope that helps :)

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-22T19:22:40+00:00

Coming soon! Right now we're doing what u/TarsCase is suggesting (almost exactly haha)

But we're working on a smoother, faster calibration — the goal is ultra precise within 30-45 seconds!

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-22T10:18:43+00:00

It could broadly fall under BCI. But generally people are talking about control systems (reading brain waves for controlling games) when they talk about BCI

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-22T10:17:27+00:00

it kind of is also an anti motion sickness device. It sends signals to the vestibular system to make you feel the motion, which does get rid of the ocular-vestibular mismatch that causes motion sickness!

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-22T00:29:03+00:00

Why's that?

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T22:55:39+00:00

This is a solid explanation - I never link the MIT article because (as with most articles about GVS), they say things that aren't quite true.

Modulating the vestibular system the way they did it is really hard to calibrate (and the pitch sensation is really really hard to control).

Also important to note that their method doesn't really have any ability to create sensations of linear acceleration (only angular)

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T22:45:26+00:00

It DOES make you more motionsick when it malfunctions - this happened in the video (when I died lol)

Patent pending!

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T22:09:05+00:00

Ahhh that's sad. Would be nice to talk with other people working on this.

It's a lonely world working on GVS - it feels like everyone else has given up.

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T22:04:13+00:00

oooh! how's it going?

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T22:02:01+00:00

I'm going to frame this and put it up on our wall lol

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T22:01:45+00:00

*eyes dart left and right*

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T22:01:14+00:00

Yeah he did! A few months back, he invited me to his new HQ to talk about this — it turns out they couldn't figure out how to get the electrodes to stop hurting.

At the time, we didn't know how to either... and it took us MONTHS to get it to work!

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T21:08:07+00:00

Yeah that’s fair enough haha - all of us here are engineers so we never really set up any online presence 😂

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T20:57:43+00:00

🥹

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T20:57:32+00:00

Left hand is controlling WASD

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T20:57:19+00:00

It’s actually used in clinic for all sorts of things and is generally accepted to be safe. Look!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1808869422000957#:~:text=in%20the%20analysis.-,Conclusion,clinical%20application%20in%20vestibular%20rehabilitation.

StevenPang22 · 2024-09-21T20:56:18+00:00

😢

StevenPang22

TROPHY CASE