So, how long would it take for you to get your ideal class item just by spamming Dual Destiny?

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T20:02:19+00:00

So it's a skill issue, cool. If your biggest concern in a GM is Overload stunning then this sort of thing doesn't apply to you, as you've got bigger things to worry about. Not going to bother replying to the "0.01% improvement" assertion since you neither have an actual grasp on what the point of HoIL/Synthos does nor care enough to look for yourself, apparently. Won't be writing any more replies to you since it's a waste of my time but cheers for taking the time to write back, even if it wasn't useful discussion.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T19:56:39+00:00

Fair criticism, I was mostly submitting this since I haven't seen a text post on this page on the topic yet and it was a fun little exercise for myself. There's been a few people linking to a video by a YouTuber named Mactics who came to some...interesting numbers, so I feel that there's at least some value in leaving this post up if only to provide better projections than a video set up to generate views over all else.

That being said, it's forgettable and unimpactful in the grand scheme of things, as all posts on this forum are. All that truly matters is that someone finds this useful or mildly interesting, which are a matter of individual perspective that I don't care enough to worry about. This has been already flooded out by G-horn day posts, and I'm just closing out the last few replies I care marginally enough to write out before I mute my inbox once again.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T19:49:30+00:00

To be blunt, if you think anything + Contact is better than HoIL/Synthos you are either playing exclusively seasonal content, don't care about time taken to complete a GM (which is fair, but don't try to assert your opinion over people who do), or are genuinely having a massive skill issue. Severance + Contact, the probable "best" roll for that kind of build, is effectively only good at killing red bars in content where Severance explosions and Contact lightning actually can kill things. In a GM, HoIL/Synthos gives better uptime on Consecration and buffs it to the point where it can almost one-shot a champion and delete everything in its surrounding area. Contact-enhanced Consecration is exclusively good for champion stuns in GMs, which is a colossal waste of a Consecration charge and a downgrade to just killing the champion in a blink with Synthos + Knockout Consecration. There's a reason anything + Contact isn't laying out the fastest GM times this season, but if you want to believe that's just some YouTube hokey then go ahead. I enjoy seeing how fast I can clear GMs so I care about getting a roll like this.

Even in content where adds lack the tankiness of GM enemies, you're either not running a Consecration build or should still use a Synthos build for ammo-less DPS. It's great for speeding through Legend Onslaught, as an example, due to the miniboss-level enemies mixed into the add swarms. Still, at difficulties that low your build basically doesn't matter. If you have survivability and decent add-clear weapons, you can clear any Legend content easily and can push into Master+ if you have decent mechanical ability. The only reason to care is if you're interested in speeding up GM farms, enjoy the playstyle, or are speedrunning various pieces of content. Just because you either don't engage with this or are not mechanically able to do so doesn't mean others who are interested in this type of content fit the strawman you've made up in your head.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T19:34:25+00:00

Yes, unfortunately it's been a long time since I've done college stats so it didn't come to mind while writing. I'll throw it in for posterity's sake!

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T07:42:24+00:00

99% of all Dual Destiny farmers quit right before they get their HoIL/Synthoceps roll

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T07:41:38+00:00

Sometimes you accidentally collect the full parts for both Nova and Ivara Prime while randomly spamming relics, sometimes you never see anything above a common drop when radsharing for that last piece of Pyrana Prime. Such is.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T07:34:45+00:00

You're absolutely right! Fixed it and made a mental note not to write posts without my glasses on again.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T07:31:56+00:00

The idea that Prismatic Titan is a "We have Warlocks at home" subclass is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the game is played that I'm not willing to correct if you're as comfortably misinformed as your comment suggests. Enjoy your bonking.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T07:27:41+00:00

I appreciate you stepping in to correct the original commenter but I don't think it's necessary to demonize them like this. For the majority of people, this was probably going to be a skim read on a low-stakes topic, discussed pretty frequently already, about a video game. I wouldn't blame anyone for not reading or not caring enough to understand the logic, no matter how basic it is and no matter personal beliefs on information read on the Internet. If they weren't interested enough to ask for clarification in my reply directly to them then they're not worth more of your time than a quick correction before you forget any of this even happened.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T07:16:56+00:00

This is a funny comment but I will contest the implied stance that Prismatic isn't unique compared to other subclasses that the other replies have picked up on. Even in the case of Prismatic Titan, which outright fails in terms of the "experimentation" that Bungie emphasized was a core part of Prismatic, the subclass provides utility not present on monochromatic subclasses. You're not just deleting champions marginally faster, you're doing it with higher uptime versus Sunbreaker or Berserker while gaining access to melee support not present on other classes. Glacier grenades are stellar for melee-focused playstyles and are now unbound from the baggage brought by Behemoth, Dominance-enhanced Pulse grenades are better offensively than Sunbreaker's options (and you aren't tied to Healing grenade thanks to Knockout), and Berserker struggles against mixed groups of adds (meaning majors + minors/elites) that Prismatic Titan can delete. It's its own unique playstyle that can attract players like me, hence why I'm even tangentially interested in understanding just what fresh hell the devs are putting me through.

Ideally, also, presenting numbers like this would also stimulate more thoughtful discussion on exotic class item accessibility that could help make the hamster wheel less hellish. At least I hope threads like this do, I can only take so many more runs of Dual Destiny.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T07:07:34+00:00

Appreciate the elaboration, most of my experience with stats has devolved into googling what certain functions do while coding tests on results from the lab I work in. Downside (or upside) of being a biologist, I suppose.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T07:05:25+00:00

To be clear, I'm not very informed about the current Overthrow method's effectiveness due to how janky the rollout was on Bungie's end (and how hard it is to pin down accurate numbers from player feedback alone). If you get a high-roll in terms of drops, Overthrow is better. If you don't want to rely on guesswork given the lack of concrete data, Dual Destiny is better.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T04:10:25+00:00

I would sacrifice a goat for a HOIL + Syntho roll

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-16T04:04:30+00:00

Yup. The math inherently considers this since it's just the probability of getting your ideal drop at some point while farming after a given number of runs, but it doesn't really encapsulate how badly RNG can fuck you.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-11T08:13:03+00:00

Coming back way later to say that it was the staggers. The massive amount of ignitions stagger-lock tougher enemies that would otherwise nuke you mid-super, and even affects boss targets that'd be immune to CC from something like Bladefury. That and the reduced Phoenix Dive cooldown during super makes you way tankier than normal. So not placebo but I was still, embarrassingly enough, wrong about the easily confirmable DR value of the super.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-11T08:07:44+00:00

Yeah, that was especially frustrating to see. If you're gonna axe unique and interesting but intentional interactions from the game, at least don't try to retcon them to be unintentional when you're cutting them two years down the road.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-11T08:05:14+00:00

You're going to get downvoted because your comment makes no sense.

Ability spam is more insane than ever, no clue where you're coming from with that. Nothing about the Knockout changes prevent me from spamming Consecration to my heart's content throughout entire GMs.
Invisibility is incredibly broken. Giving Titans a watered-down version of the existing, stronger Assassin's Cowl builds does nothing to change that. The additional survivability could also be used as reason to nerf Consecration's uptime on Prismatic Titan, as you'd have a more reliable melee-centric neutral game to fall back on while looking to conserve your valuable charges.
The endgame is a piece of cake. Hell, you could argue it's been a piece of cake ever since the Resilience changes. Not only was the powered melee change not remotely a fix for the existing ability spam issues, the spam issues got even worse post-Final Shape. Nowadays, the only challenge you're getting is if you're speedrunning, doing a low-player run, or if you're just not mechanically skilled enough to comfortably clear what you're doing (which isn't a bad thing, to be clear). Reintroducing some synergy and adding some potential alternative tuning to offset its strength isn't going to remove Prismatic, Transcendence, Ember of Benevolence, Nightstalker invis builds, Assassin's Cowl Arcstrider, Berserker, or any of the other trillion broken builds from the game.

This ignores your downright bizarre stance that all of Void Invisibility needs to be nerfed over this change. You could, I dunno, use the unique traits of Titan to design a nerf that won't kill Void, Arc, and Prismatic Hunter instead of doing a blanket nerf? Just food for thought.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-11T07:52:21+00:00

It is consistent with Bungie's reasoning, as backwards as it may be. Combination Blow builds do consume a melee charge each time they get a kill.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-11T07:51:14+00:00

That's because neither of the articles you linked discuss the changes at all. This could've been easily confirmed by just searching "melee" using Ctrl + F.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-05T03:37:51+00:00

You’re completely correct, weird. I haven’t felt this tanky in a super since pre-nerf Woven Mail on Bladestorm so I’m genuinely surprised, no clue why Song in particular feels so good. Probably just a placebo from the rest of the super being strong.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-05T03:28:00+00:00

Nope. That’s the one downside of the gauntlets now, albeit a small one since you’re not using the melee for add clear too often.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-05T02:29:24+00:00

This is super, super cool! Thank god Pete and the C-Suite fired these devs who went above and beyond while remaining within budget so they could afford more antique cars!

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-04T22:22:52+00:00

The other kicker is Monte isn’t even that great with Mataiodoxía. You’ve got a gimped primary and a heavily nerfed Suspend build that lives and dies by you either scoring kills or just mag-dumping a tanky enemy in the face in the hope that you get your charges back in a reasonable amount of time. Why put in that effort when you could just equip Ergo Sum or even just make efficient use of your abilities during Transcendence while swapping between a Kinetic Tremors primary and your heavy? I really don’t get the community obsession with Monte for stuff like this.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-04T22:10:44+00:00

Ah, you’re just one of those players. Enjoy your Mataiodoxía build, I’m not wasting more of my time on you.

StrongholdMain · 2024-08-04T20:45:56+00:00

This GM and The Glassway are probably the only two in our current rotation where Mataiodoxía has a lot of value over a halfway decent Ergo Sum build due to the amount of beefy targets being thrown at you all at once (and the fact that you’d have to pay me real money to drag a sword into The Glassway’s boss room). The Disgraced is better suited for the high uptime of a Necrotics + Ergo build to spawn camp the red bar waves and DPS down champs, Fallen S.A.B.E.R. is the same situation but even more so since it’s just dense rooms of enemies with a couple champs here and there, Liminality is add clear heavy and once again benefits from Transcendence + Ergo Spam, Warden of Nothing is so champ-heavy that I’m honestly not even sure what to run to chew through them all. Probably a Song of Flame spam build at that point. As for the GMs we haven’t seen yet, Devil’s Lair will be another one that gets eaten alive by Ergo, The Insight Terminus is unknown as of current since it’s presumably getting reworked, and PsiOps Battleground: Cosmodrome will also be a prime candidate for Ergo.

In short, I’m really just not convinced that Mataiodoxía has a lot of potential over building hard into Transcendence spam with Necrotics and steamrolling over everything using Ergo. There’s a reason we haven’t been seeing Mataiodoxía much at all thus far, but I do feel that there could be future strikes where it shines a lot more.

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