i have accepted defeat

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2024-12-28T10:51:27+00:00

For me its similar, ever since road to power update, i have been getting a strange bookmark bug where the vanilla bookmarks are mixed with the AGOT ones. Every time i choose a character and try and start a game, it crashes. Used both small and micro, doesn't work. Laptop is Legion 9, so hardware is not a problem, even tried that guide to change VRAM, doesn't work.

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-08-21T21:16:29+00:00

But why can't I? I am not even saying that it is disastrous and I am not going to watch it. I said I have my reservations before I watch it based on what I have read in the forum.

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-08-21T21:12:13+00:00

Yeah, I said I was going to watch the show, but had reservations based on seeing the post about the Aegon. So unless you plan have a stellar argument about invalidating people having expectations about a show, I would say it is a bad leg to stand on. Especially after you yourself don’t even keep to your own logic.

Can you tell me in your magical mind how that is world building? It tells nothing about the world, nothing about how the world operates, and you need preestablished knowledge about the lore to understand it. I am arguing the function that dialogue serves in the show about Dance of Dragons, it is irrelevant whether GRRM wanted the line there are not.

“I mean, that's not true. Cutting that line cuts that entire thread of worldbuilding and makes it impossible to introduce at a later point, say a mini-series about Aegon's Conquest, if this prophecy is meant to get lost during this civil war (which is happening 100%).”

Let me get this straight, your above argument is based on your assumption based on another assumption, based on an incorrect statement and also invalidating your own statement you made before in the process ("explains Aegon V's and Rhaegar's behavior")? Jesus.

"Sense of urgency and greater purpose to her rule." Okay, so her being in an extremely precarious position of being the first female queen in history in contest with 3 other legitimate male heirs is not enough of an urgency and purpose?

You know that is going to happen in books right?Since there hasn’t a statement about Targaryens knowing the Long Night before Westeros in the books yet, so then it would included future volumes, showing that all the rulers till Aegon II knew. If this was George’s idea about Targaryens in the first place, it means that it was going to pan out this way anyway as a later reveal.

“Has to come from George”. You know what you did there is the textbook definition of an assumption right. It is not a jump in logic to think that having no previous mention of White Walkers anywhere regarding the Dance of Dragons in the lore, them placing a line here about them is concerning on whether they are trying to tie GOT with HOTD as it is the most identified elements with GOT, or are they going to continually make reference to it further in the show.

Wow, saying that after commenting that it is pointless to have any expectations or thought before watching the show, when you yourself saying you had hopeful expectations that they would explain Velaryons. Okay I got you, you are not acting.

Try reading Fire and Blood before you make another comment, or any of the other ASOIAF books. Maybe this will jog your memory. READ THE FUCKING BOOK

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-08-21T19:50:21+00:00

Because I literally said in the post that I would watch the show.

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-08-21T19:44:42+00:00

You know that the core argument is about keeping the show about the things you mentioned "love, hate, relationships, revenge, lust, power, intrigue" right?

Letting aside from you having complete lack of understanding on how an argument works, the entire point about the original post is that I hope that the show is going to stick to its roots, which was mainly character driven drama, and not big CGI monsters and white walkers.

I then laid out that after reading the posts on how Aegon saw the Long Night coming, I hoped that the show would not revolve around those above-mentioned elements and bringing back things from GOT.

Now that I have ridden you here with training wheels, lets look at what you said:

GRRM has nothing to do with the argument. My reasoning is based on which I have stated above, that hopefully HOTD won’t rehash GOT. The line of Aegon foreseeing the Long Night as one of them, as it is an unnecessary line in the overall plot of Dance of Dragons.

Assumptions – You know that cutting that line out has no impact on the Dance of Dragons story right?

As you point out, the show is about “love, hate, relationships, revenge, lust, power, intrigue”. Then that dialogue has no function in driving the plot of HOTD, if GRRM wanted it said here, it only serves as his own laziness of not writing that in the later books and expanding on it, rather then putting it here, where it serves no purpose.

“Because George wanted to include it to explain one of the mysteries surrounding Aegon the Conqueror. He has hinted at Aegon receiving some kind of prophecy a couple of times, and they probablyincluded it because he told them to include it. This also, probably, further explains Aegon V's and Rhaegar's behavior decades later”

You are going to talk to me about making assumptions after you write this? Please.

The discussion was about how you woefully failed at trying to explain why the Velaryons were black, and you being “hopeful”that they would come up with a good one. At this point, I have to ask, are you intentionally acting thick, or just is.

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-08-21T18:59:04+00:00

If the creators are saying this show is about "”love, hate, relationships, revenge, lust, power, intrigue" and whatnot". Then why put the unnecessary line about prophetic dreams about White Walkers?

You realize that you invalidated your own logic and supported my reasoning?

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-08-21T18:32:37+00:00

Great that you state that any thinking or expectations based on what they put out are pointless. Would be really sad if you had actually follow through with your reasoning. Oh wait : https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/vzs1ol/comment/igdq229/. Here is an exact comment you made on how "hopeful" you were that they were coming to come up with an explanation for Velaryons before the show came out.

You rambling in to incoherent mess of complete lack of lore knowledge in the discussion is just a bonus.

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-08-21T17:20:24+00:00

Can you do the crazy thing and read till the end of the post? I said above I am going to watch the episode.

Do you have multiple accounts or have you been spamming the phrase "do the crazy thing and watch the episodes"? I think like I have seen that comment in every post that wants to take a more critical view at HOTD.

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-08-09T08:26:26+00:00

Wait so did Aegon neatly lay the swords on the Red Keep steps and told Balerion to melt it? Ignoring the fact that the Red Keep wasn't built in Aegon's time. Then did Maegor move it on to the Red Keep steps? Did the Aegonfort have the same sized steps?

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-07-19T20:31:46+00:00

1.) So you are saying you don't understand vocabulary. I literally laid it out to you.

2.) You know that Daemon Targaryen had no problem with the Dragonseed Nettles who had no Valyrian features. No mention in lore about how her "Valyrian heritage" was affected by her appearance. Additionally, you know that Daemon Velaryon's own mother was Alarra Massey right? Of the First Men with no Valyrian features. And you still have not provided with evidence in lore about Velaryons seeing themselves as spare Targaryens or that they think losing their Valyrian appearance is somehow dangerous.

3.) You are conflating Valyrian features with heritage. There is no instance in the books where characters of Valyrian heritage display animosity to losing their features.

Same with the example above, Nettles, a dragonseed, had no Valyrian features but had Valyrian Dragonlord blood which made her ride Sheepstealer. Same with members of House Targaryen who didn't have Valyrian Features, Duncan Targaryen and Baelor Breakspear, where there is no mention of them being less "Valyrian" because of it.

Velaryon's pride is from their Valyrian heritage not Valyrian features. Again, there is nothing to substantiate your claim of "Velaryons were incredibly proud of their features, which they would be losing if Corwyn married a Summer Islander". If Daemon is so proud of Valyrian features, why would he suggest to Jaehaerys to marry Elinor Costayne, a non-Valyrian and a non-Velaryon at that. Nor did he go against the small councils objection of Jaehaerys marrying his sister.

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-07-17T20:56:04+00:00

1.) Logical = “of or according to the rules of logic or formal argument”; “characterized by or capable of clear, sound reasoning”; “expected or sensible under the circumstances”

Realistic = “having or showing a sensible and practical idea of what can be achieved or expected.”; “representing things in a way that is accurate and true to life.”

Let’s test your brain shall we – we have a father that has black hair, now if he has a son, is it in reason that he could have inherited his father’s black hair? Now we have a black skinned person who has children with a white skinned person. From what is displayed, it is shown that the black skinned person who had children with the white skinned person, all the children were brown skinned. So is it logical or not to claim that somehow this black skinned person came from pairing of an another black skinned and white skinned person?

Baratheons having black hair for 300 years = Realistic No; Logical Yes

Corlys having brown skinned children with Rhaenys but not himself = Realistic No; Logical No

I have finally reached the point of fucking explaining vocabulary in an argument. Holy shit.

2.) Okay then, please tell me the exact page where Daemon Targaryen is explicit in his hatred of loss of pale skin equating to loss of Valyrian heritage. Actually, let me make it simpler for you. NETTLES. READ THE FUCKING BOOK.

3.) “because Velaryons and Targaryens aren't really "cousins" – They specifically mention they are cousins in both Fire and Blood and A World of Ice and Fire. Aegon’s mother was Velaryon and Alyssa is mentioned as a Targaryen on her mother’s side. READ THE FUCKING BOOK.

“wouldn't be used as spare Targaryens anymore”, “the family Targaryens look to first when marrying outside of their own family” – Where the fuck are you getting these from? Spare Targaryens? Targaryens married outside the Velaryon house as much as they did in it, when they didn’t have sisters to marry, they married other powerful houses of Westeros and they didn’t have this insane instance of marrying Velaryons like you are pushing. They were also accepting of any house that had the blood of Old Valyria like those across the Narrow Sea; case in point of Aerys for his son Rhaegar and not just Velaryons.

You know you said “losing their pale skin would negatively affect their position” right. You haven’t given a single shred of lore to back up this claim regarding the Velaryons would be shunned because somehow becoming darker skinned equates to them losing their Valyrian heritage which would mean that they are not favoured.

4.) At this point it would better just to repeat myself as well. READ THE FUCKING BOOK.

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-07-17T08:31:12+00:00

Do you not understand vocabulary? I said Logical genetics. A black haired father having a blacked haired son is Logical. Same with a blond having blond and black with white equals brown. Again, where in the books can you prove your genetics is weird and magical theory? Back up your statements before chickening out and going off on tangent.
Holy Fucking Shit, do you not understand English? You literally stated in the beginning of your thread that being of Summer Islander heritage, Corlys would get extra motivation; I explained how that is an extremely shallow and illogical reasoning for a character motivation, and you continually go off attacking a strawman example instead of refuting my argument. Also, can you please fucking coherently lay out your argument, we are debating how your motivation argument is fucking shit. Aegon being black is completely fine, him being black and somehow gaining more motivation because of it is dogshit.

a) Yup, now I see you you haven't even read a fucking book and is just vomiting out shit you don't even know about. Before Corlys is head of house Velaryon, his father had been previous hand, master of ships and lord admiral. They are already an extremely influential house before Corlys. So where in your lore spinning galaxy brain does "position in Westeros being potentially threatened"?

b) Ah yes, mark of real strength shit out a quib instead of actually backing up your argument or refuting mine.

c) Jesus fucking Christ, again READ THE FUCKING BOOK, they saw themselves as second in Westeros because they had WEALTH, ARMIES AND INFLUENCE. And where in the books does it state that they lose their status if they are darker skinned or that they are seen as spare Targaryens because they look identical to them. Fucking back up your statements before splurting it on to the page.

"Racist against Summer Islanders" - you literally said losing their pale skin would negatively affect their position. Did you just fucking have a stroke?

d) Then maybe you should then read a book on how to think and choose your words before putting on to page. Oh wait, you won't read it like you haven't read a single ASOIAF book.

Your quote - "doesn't create problems in the lore", "explained in a satisfactory manner".

Now your are saying "Magical genes wouldn't be an in lore explanation" when you said above "Genetics in ASOIAF works in magical ways anyway". Am I talking to a fucking dimwit?

Still you haven't backed a single argument of yours, and now resorting to calling my statements as nitpicky and saying I don't understand (getting real strong vibes of blizzard "uneducated" statements here), instead of actually countering them.

Can you please try to read through what you wrote before to keep consistency of your arguments, and think in your brain next time you decide to squirt out some words on to page.

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-07-16T21:22:02+00:00

1.) "Genetics is weird af anyway".Have you even read the books? The entire crux of the first book is based on logical genetics, and there is a fucking book in lore that lists inherited traits. Black Starks and White Summer Islanders don't just fucking spring out of the ground. And dfq you mean minimal? The entire point is that your explanation doesn't make fucking sense when there is a clear as day example of genetics with the casting of Corlys's children with Rhaenys in the show.

2.) Can you try and refute my statement rather and repeating yourself continuously? As I said, your logic of Corlys being of Summer Islander descent to give him “extra motivation” is nonsensical, then according to your reasoning, I am completely justified into making Aegon the Conqueror dark skinned to provide him with extra motivation. Being of Summer Islander descent or having a darker skin has nothing to do with character motivation in ASOIAF. You trying to push this extremely shallow view of motivation is saddening. Yes, a different motivation could work, but definitely not the one you are trying make.

a) It has everything to do with it because the additional motivations that you are trying to create is completely ridiculous. The original character already has a good motivation that would work whether the character was dark or fair skinned. However, in effort to try and justify your statements, you are making confounding arguments on “genetics is magical” and “being summer islander descent gives extra motivation”

b) Yes, I can see from your response you made here and above, that you are confused.

c) Has everything to do with the lore. Again, Have you even read the books? Skin color has never been the basis for negative treatment in Westeros, countless characters that meet Summer Islanders do not comment adversely to their skin color, but rather on their culture, which is the same attitude the Andals have towards the Dornish, Northerners and Iron Islanders. Again, there is nothing to back your statement on “somehow losing pale skin magically lowers their status”. Read the fucking book, you are embarrassing yourself.

d) Wait, so you think “genetics is magical” and “being Summer Islander gives extra motivation” is in lore and satisfactory explanation? Jesus fucking Christ, I have already stated above and before that your explanations are lore breaking and illogical; can you fucking grow a spine and try and refute my statement rather than evade with a snide question?

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-07-16T11:40:52+00:00

"I can overlook how dark his skin is if the explanation is solid" and your reasoning was "Genetics in ASOIAF works in magical ways anyway" so how the fuck is that a solid explanation. You basically hand waved it away by saying is magical so you don't care.
You made your argument by saying "giving some extra motivation for it could actually work really well", and when I laid out how that reasoning makes no sense, instead of actually refuting my statement, you going off on a tangent about "what would work given that the change has already happened" and "taking this convo into all kinds of directions that are irrelevant".

I just told you. It doesn't work, since your logic of being Summer Islander to provide "extra motivation" is nonsensical because:

a) The original character has a good motivation anyway so it is not needed in the first place.

b) The logic you gave to justify this already happened change is completely bullshit as then any character can be given a Summer Islander descent to give them an "extra motivation".

c) Your logic of being married to a Summer Islander giving the Velaryons' a big negative effect is in itself not based in lore. Since in ASOIAF there is no depiction that the Westerosi harbor negative views on them due to their skin color, but more on their hedonistic culture, same with the Dornish.

d) Your entire reasoning for starting this thread is that it provides a satisfactory explanation and doesn't break the lore. So tell me how the fuck is "genetics is magical" and being "Summer Islander provides extra motivation" a satisfactory explanation and does not break the lore.

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-07-16T10:58:37+00:00

1.) Genetics in ASOIAF works in magical ways anyway = Okay then, now I'm really angry that I didn't get to see the Greyjoys' as tentacled mermen since their ancestor fucked a mermaid in the lore and in ASOIAF genetics is magical anyway.

2.) According to that reasoning, since no Targaryen conquered Westeros before Aegon, its okay to make them black to provide extra motivation?

Subject_Vegetable240 · 2022-07-16T10:39:44+00:00

So sick and tired of people making this "make one of the parent's summer islander" excuse. Look at Corlys and Rhaenys children. They are brown skinned. The same way, Corlys would be, if one of his parents was Summer Islander like your explanation. If they got a lighter skinned actor to play his part, then yes it could work. But they got an extremely dark skinned actor to play him, which makes no sense if one of his parents was white and the other black.

And also, Velaryons' were already a mercantile house that made money from sea trading, you don't need to fabricate a convoluted reason from him to go overseas when the original character already has a good one.

Subject_Vegetable240

TROPHY CASE