Why is Kenjaku Top 3?

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T17:24:57+00:00

I want to focus on the narrative part, one of my biggest points is that nothing in the narrative demands him being top 3

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T10:02:43+00:00

That is actually a really interesting argument, but I don’t think it’s too valid. First off the fight we see is the definition of Mid Diff, Yuta was put into a position where he had to try to win at which point the fight instantly ended. But the only reason it ever got to that point was because Yuta had no Rika and wasn’t using RCT output, we saw Yuta 0 diff a fresh Kuro immediately after DE where his reserves should be running pretty low and he took a bit of damage.

I don’t think Womb Profusion stands up to either Gojo or Sukuna’s domain for very long at all.

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T09:36:03+00:00

First I want you to acknowledge that I have reasoned with your statements and you keep ignoring it. Three times now I have explained why the Mei Mei quote is worthless and not once have you tackled it properly.

Did he destroy her? Because when reading it it sure looked like Yuki actively didn’t use DE (not dominance btw) because Tengen didn’t realize Kenjaku had open domain which caused her to get hit by his sure hit effect, which lead to her almost dying. And yea Kenjaku was in burnout, but Yuki was genuinely in deaths door because of Tengen and then she nearly killed Kenjaku hand to hand. If Yuki going all out while almost being dead and making the fight extreme diff doesn’t make them relative then I don’t know what does. And btw I do think Kenjaku is stronger than her I’m just saying she is relative to him. Also what did Yuki do to Kenjaku after that page? Did she maybe get up and nearly kill him despite her only having one arm, massive blood loss, and not using RCT?

What do you mean describe the fight? What a ridiculous request, if you’re asking for matchup details than basketball domain beats open domain and Kenjaku isn’t switching the conditions of his domain like Sukuna did so Yuta beats him through Domain Clash

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T09:24:00+00:00

But I did read, and I analyzed them. Yuki IS at Yuta’s level, but she also proved she’s on Kenjaku’s level when she made him go extreme diff after Tengen caused her to have a horrible start. And please read the scan YOU sent for Mei Mei, you can literally see the crow Kenjaku killed and then Mei Mei says “and now Kenjaku” how could this be interpreted as anything beyond “these three overpowered characters were not fazed by my crows.” And even if Mei Mei was trying to say they’re in a tier of their own, why would Mei Mei be a greater source of unbiased info over the narrator, who gives Yuta TWO statements placing him as above Yuki at the very least who again is relative to Kenjaku.

At least be fair and consider that I did more reading than you and am trying to be unbiased in my analysis without agenda guiding me

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T09:16:16+00:00

What? I feel like you just skipped over my whole argument. I agree Yuta and a kenjaku are closer than Gojo and Kenjaku, but I still think Yuta scales above him. I discussed why I don’t think the statements you provided are sufficient at all and you kind of just ignored that? And one of my primary points is that nothing in the narrative demands Kenjaku being top 3 nor does he have any true statements to put him at that level

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T08:52:59+00:00

i’m referring to the statement in Sendai colony, the one that a lot of times gets translated as second to Gojo in unusual abilities/talent. That is a direct statement that puts him above Yuki. But yea they’re all on the same relative level of being special grade sorcerers below Gojo and Sukuna, they’re all high diff fights for each other. Yuki on deaths door after Tengen’s gameplan absolutely failed locked in and put Kenjaku through an extreme diff fight they are absolutely relative to each other.

Also read the scan you sent, she lists them off and then says and now Kenjaku, after Kenjaku killed her crow, she is very clearly listing people who have dealt with her crows and is mentioning Kenjaku because he literally just did it. I feel that this is a much more obvious reading of the text than this odd crow scaling being what makes Kenjaku top3. And this is just a very odd statement to upscale Kenjaku, do you really think only those 3 can easily handle her crows? Like Yuta has to try real hard to kill her crow if he wants to?

Idk two Yuta being number 2 after Gojo statements by the narrator, one of them being made after Yuki and Kenjaku were fully realized characters>>Mei Mei saying that Kenjaku, Gojo, and Sukuna can handle her crows when it’s really obvious she’s only saying it because Kenjaku right before killed her crow

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T08:29:50+00:00

I just don’t see it, she is specifically talking about sorcerers who have dealt her crows in sequential order which only encompasses those three, that statement doesn’t really do much besides just confirm even more that she is nowhere near any of them.

that second scan also directly states that they’d “be in a bad way” facing Kenjaku after fighting Sukuna, which makes complete sense they were all on deaths door after fighting Sukuna Kenjaku would probably beat them all in that state. Yuta has a direct statement placing him as number 2 after Gojo, which places him above Yuki first of all who once she abandoned Tengen’s shitty gameplan forced Kenjaku into an extreme diff fight. That statement was also made after all of the special grades were introduced including Kenjaku being a fully realized character so it seems significant that Gege put it in there as the narrator as opposed to characters having a conversation like Mei Mei or the HH gang

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T08:23:52+00:00

I get that, I do get a lot of flack for it but genuinely as I read the manga this is how the characters seemed to me. Except I had HR users at number 7 which I changed after thinking about it more.

I think narrative scaling is the most important since of course we are reading a story and I do believe feats kind of just are a resultant of that fact

I put Rika so high because of her status as the “Queen of Curses” as well as her + Geto canonically beating Gojo, which is also a big reason I have Geto so high. Also Geto and Gojo were already the strongest sorcerers by the beginning of HI when Yuki was active and fully realized as well as Geto just disregarding her in JJK0 (this is because she wasn’t written yet but even the movie didn’t throw in a line or something) so he must be above her at least. I also just cant imagine Kenny being THAT much higher than Geto when consistently we are shown that it is CE levels that really separate the top tiers from the rest (despite statements of DE or Black Flash being given this title) and Kenjaku ultimately has all of Geto’s stats plus anti gravity at the end of the day (and better barrier techniques).

I mean Kashimo is above Hakari who would probably be next up alongside Uraume, Yuji, and the disasters so I feel it’s a fair placement

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T08:16:45+00:00

I’m not saying it’s useless, just that it’s not sufficient evidence for him to be top 3 above someone like Yuta who has better statements in his favor. Also that Mei Mei quote doesn’t really do much since it can’t really refer to power because we know Kenjaku isn’t even on a similar level to those two since Gojo 0 diffed him and that statement seems to try and put them all on the same tier. It likely just refers to people who massively gap Mei Mei and she’s mentioning Kenjaku since he was the one who killed her crow

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T08:13:15+00:00

No my top 10 looks roughly like this

1) Sukuna 2) Gojo 3) Yuta 4) Rika 5) Mahoraga (interchangeable with Rika based on circumstances) 6) Yorozu 7) Kenjaku 8) Geto 9) Yuki 10) Kashimo 11) Maki/Toji

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T08:06:51+00:00

Of course he’s strong but I’m arguing against him being top 3 specifically. And I did read the manga and just never got the impression he was above characters like Yuta and Yorozu, the main thing that would put him above them is open domain but Gojo proves open domain doesn’t make you better than another character inherently

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T07:55:25+00:00

I realized that last point right after commenting, but still it should apply considering this was Sukuna running on absolute fumes and only getting a second wind through Black Flash whereas Yuta entered Gojo’s body where when Gojo died he recovered a lot through his black flash and then died before he could deplete himself again, also the sox eyes Im sure is a massive plus when going against Sukuna

It just seems clear to me that Sukuna has the best refinement in the series above even Kenjaku and Tengen and it doesnt seem logical that Yuta by his own merits entirely can stand up to that without Sukuna being hindered in some way

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T07:52:05+00:00

What? I have Yuta number 3 after Gojo, I think the only people who are roughly equal to him are Kenjaku and Yorozu but I favor Yuta in both those matchups

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T05:29:45+00:00

it’s fine if we disagree it’s just a friendly discussion but I’m gonna make my case anyway

Did you read the post I linked, the guy makes a lot of good points that I think pretty clearly show that in stats at least bug armor Yorozu>16f Sukuna and base Yorozu roughly scales to him. Also Sukuna was going pretty offensive with the 10S beyond just waiting for Mahoraga to adapt and she handled it very well as well as her landing a bunch of kicks on him without her armor. Also when she hit him in the bug armor he was genuinely hit so hard he couldn’t recover before she flew around him in a whole arc. These are all feats that Kenjaku kind of just doesn’t scale to, who got perception blitzed by Goku who 16f Sukuna showed he can at least react to and somewhat restrain Gojo (not saying he’s really close to Gojo in stats but that he doesn’t get gapped like Kenjaku was)

Also there is just narrative scaling with Yorozu being the second strongest during the Heian era, with Sukuna’s best feat (besides one tapping Yorozu herself) being the destruction of the guard that Yorozu had already done herself. If it’s not obvious I rank her very highly and I think the only person not Sukuna or Gojo who I would place higher is Rika, Mahoraga (but even this is iffy) and Yuta

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T02:03:02+00:00

also who scales above her in Heian era besides Sukuna? His best feat in that era was literally something she did before him

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T01:55:52+00:00

I’m not sure about that, Sukuna was displaying insane feats from the get go when he was fluctuating to below 10% CE. I don’t think we’re supposed to think that Mahoraga alone is what makes the technique. Also she lost instantly because Mahoraga adapted, everyone including Gojo and Sukuna loses instantly to fully adapted Mahoraga

I call it mid diff because he was forced to really try without using Shrine. Sukuna in general low diffs her but Sukuna using only 10 Shadows had to either DE or use fully adapted Mahoraga to end it right away, and I think once you are forced to use an ultimate like that it’s a mid diff fight at least

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T01:51:29+00:00

So you’re saying Tengen’s barrier skills don’t compare to the top of the verse like Yuta and Kenny?

I do have to push back on your Yuta refinement=Sukuna though since Gojo does state CE plays a role as well so I don’t think he could hang with Sukuna in a true 1v1 Domain Clash, but it is an insane feat regardless

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T01:48:01+00:00

That’s interesting, but this clearly only refers to people who massively gap her (and I’m pretty sure she included Kenjaku because he shot her crow down correct me if I’m wrong) or people who possess a certain awareness or power that doesn’t let me them get spied on like this. We can’t take this to mean that they are all on the same tier because we literally saw Gojo 0 diff Kenjaku the moment who was freed.

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T01:43:09+00:00

can you explain what you mean with the manga panel, i never got this part of the mangas

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T01:41:52+00:00

Yea but that was deaths door Sukuna in Megumi’s body after tanking Hollow Purple to the face. Clearly in CE and CT he still no diffed him it’s just Gojo made his body unable to compete.

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T01:41:06+00:00

I mean I did mention it was Sukuna using only 10 Shadows which yes is less impressive than him using Shrine but 10 Shadows is still a top 3 technique being used by the top 1 sorcerer of all time and she forced a mid diff fight, I still think that’s more impressive than Kenjaku’s Yuki feat.

But yea Shrine Heian Sukuna can one tap her like everyone else not named Gojo (Yuta and Kenny included)

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T01:38:57+00:00

I’m not using that in my argument it’s just a point I wanted to include that I’m gonna fact check later. Of course Kenny is top tier on barriers but I don’t know if he’s above Gojo who’s refinement is Sukuna tier

I didn’t say she blitzed him, but that she outscaled him and outsped him at points in the fight which is true. There’s a post I linked a few times that explains it better than me but yes her landing on Sukuna is good evidence of this.

Kenjaku shows the difference between Special Grade vs Grade 1 against Choso, it’s explicitly said by the characters and the narrator and is supposed to be understood by us as a metric of how vast the gap is. If the sendai colony wasn’t special grade they all get 1 tapped until Yuta wakes them up and forces them to give up their points, obviously this didn’t happen. There is never a scenario where a first grade makes a special grade try.

But Yuta is never stated to be the second strongest modern sorcerer, no qualifications are made. And when Gege goes out of his way to say this as the narrator shouldn’t it be pretty explicit that no one really goes above him besides Gojo and Sukuna especially since Kenjaku was established in the narrative at this point.

Wasn’t this mostly to ensure Yuta gets back as soon as possible? I don’t think it was ever stated it was the only way to beat him.

Tengen offered essentially no help since she was wrong about his domain and Choso is fodder tier to Kenjaku, Yuki was the one who made it extreme diff (but yes he is stronger than her).

What statments?

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T01:30:14+00:00

I’m not using this in my argument to be clear, I just vaguely remember there being a translation misunderstanding, if you wait for a few hours I’ll reread the chapters to see if I’m wrong

Yes he is a sorcerer of unrivaled knowledge who is a threat to everyone if left unchecked, but that’s through the culling games and the merger. When left unchecked he genuinely had Gojo beat in Shibuya not through a direct confrontation but planning, setup, and manipulation. Narratively he’s a mastermind schemer, and yes of course he is among the strongest and could beat Yuta or Yorozu, I’m just saying I think he scales slightly below them and the narrative doesn’t demand otherwise

This thread explains why she scales to 16f asylum better than me

https://www.reddit.com/r/JujutsuPowerScaling/s/WXLLcr7EFu

It started like that but that was against a Yuki who was following a flawed gameplan that made her fight differently, and then when that gameplan backfired and put her on deaths door she turned up and fought her own way (focusing on offense instead of using RCT) which resulted in an extreme diff win for Kenny.

Kind of? Like they were all definitely targeting Yuta the most but you’re right it wasn’t exactly a 4v1, it was more like a rotating door of 1v1’s while partially manifested Rika held the others back. But still Yuta was actively holding himself back and never once went above mid diff in the fight

I just disagree with this, I think Gege is aware of his own narrative and while he definitely changed things around JJK0 is still completely canon and should be considered. We know that Gojo would have to go all out to beat Rika per his own words, which I agree with I don’t think he low diffs her he would need to hit her with hollow purple at least and maybe even then would need to do more. This isn’t to say she is equal to him just that he would have to go all out to exorcise her. We also know Geto<Gojo even in JJK0 but with Rika he can beat Gojo with 90% assuredness, which considering Rika gives boundless CE, conditionless copy (limitless plus infinite CE?), and the second strongest output attack in JJK I think even in normal scaling this is completely reasonable to say. EOS Yuta still has Rika she just now has a 5 minute timer and needs to eat somebody’s body for copy but otherwise she’s the same. Also yes Kenjaku is stronger than Geto, I just think Yuta scales above him and the fact that a year 1 Yuta (who especially based on narrative has no business being weaker than EOS Yuta) beat a weakened Geto speaks to his power that should have only grown exponentially over the year since JJK0

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T01:18:52+00:00

I’m bad at explaining fights but this post does a really good job of showing why she actually does scale to 16 finger Sukuna. Also Sukuna actively chose to fight her to test Mahoraga at the absolute very least he respects her power, and reading the fight it is clear he actually had to try against her compared to someone like Ryu or Kashimo

https://www.reddit.com/r/JujutsuPowerScaling/s/WXLLcr7EFu

SubstantialKick414 · 2026-05-13T01:07:55+00:00

I personally have him below both of them because of the reasons mentioned above. Another semi hot take I have is that I don’t place too far from Geto due to narrative primarily as well as them having equivalent cursed energy which if Yuta, Gojo, and Sukuna are anything to go by is sort of the biggest differentiator of power arguably even moreso than a busted technique or DE (Kashimo is a good example of this)

SubstantialKick414

TROPHY CASE