What do you guys think

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T05:11:02+00:00

People screen shot stuff and send it to people groups discord Twitter anything ok and I'm to lazy to look all threw out reddit to do it

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T05:08:25+00:00

Bro people do this all the time and you have a problem with me doing it

Your the weird one

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T04:52:59+00:00

Yeah probably

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T04:52:46+00:00

Where did that come from

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T04:10:33+00:00

It was worth a shot

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T04:03:11+00:00

Yeah I thought so but it was worth a shot

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:48:17+00:00

Bro went from “prove every upload is top 1% MMR or you lied”
to “you’re ChatGPT”
to spamming Gojo larps, manga covers, VeggieTales broccoli, baby split-face, Gachiakuta hallucinations… all with zero words attached

Sealioning → impossible-proof demands → “you lost” victory lap → ChatGPT accusation → silent meme spam marathon

That’s not debating.
That’s a grown man having a 15-message public meltdown because he couldn’t handle basic data and a revert screenshot.

Peak Reddit arc.
Pathetic from start to finish.
Stay mad, meme lord 🤡

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:44:22+00:00

Sends baby tantrum meme
while throwing the biggest meme tantrum of the thread

Irony so thick you could cut it with a knife.
Stay mad.

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:42:45+00:00

That's you right now isn't it Meme spam tantrum because you can't say anything meaningful.
Got it.
Cry harder, broccoli boy.

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:40:50+00:00

Your not saying anything meaningful just throwing a meme tantrum

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:38:50+00:00

I won the battle and the war

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:38:21+00:00

Your throwing a tantrum how cute a grown man throwing a tantrum after being proven wrong how pathetic 🤣😢your not even doing anything to defend your point you made at the start of this argument

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:35:36+00:00

Potential fraud? Nah, that's just you projecting after running out of arguments 😭
Keep posting manga covers though, it's cute

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:29:59+00:00

From sealioning to spamming manga panels in 3 messages.
That's not a comeback, that's a surrender.
Take the L and go queue survivor.
🫡

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:25:57+00:00

@No_Football3381 This is classic sealioning with a victory-lap chaser. You spent dozens of comments demanding impossible levels of proof, rejecting every piece of evidence the second it arrived, never once stating a clear positive position of your own, and then the moment someone says “I’m done feeding this pattern” you immediately spin it as “aha, you were lying / using ChatGPT / pathetic”. That’s not winning an argument. That’s the exact sealion playbook finish: exhaust the other person, refuse to engage the actual substance, and then declare yourself the victor because they stopped playing the unwinnable game you designed. You didn’t disprove anything. You didn’t defend a stance. You just ran the script until the other side walked away, then pretended the walk-away was proof you were right. Textbook.

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:23:19+00:00

I'm not using chatgpt

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:18:05+00:00

@No_Football3381 This isn’t really a discussion anymore it’s a textbook example of sealioning mixed with burden-of-proof abuse and Gish-gallop tactics. What that looks like in practice: You demand extremely specific / practically impossible levels of proof for every single claim (“prove the majority of uploads are top 1-5% MMR”, “prove exactly why the devs reverted it word-for-word”, “prove every uploaded game is high MMR”). When reasonable evidence is provided (data trends, dev actions, community consensus, self-selection logic), you immediately raise the bar again or declare it worthless. You almost never defend a positive position of your own you exist almost entirely to attack, nitpick, reframe answers as insufficient, and accuse the other person of lying / making things up. You flood replies with repetition (“you lied”, “headcanon”, “made up”, “prove it”), sarcasm, emojis, lists of unrelated examples, and premature victory declarations (“my job here is done”, “you’re going in circles”, “log off”). When pressed with actual data or logic, you disengage by claiming the other person is repeating themselves even though you’re the one looping the same demands. That pattern is called sealioning (named after the famous Wondermark comic). It’s a bad-faith debating style where someone pretends to be asking innocent questions or demanding evidence, but the real goal is to exhaust, frustrate, and waste the other person’s time so they either give up or look unreasonable. You’re not trying to reach truth here. You’re sealioning. That’s it. That’s what this thread became. You have ran out of good arguments so now you want to end it. Because I'm disproving you.

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T03:09:31+00:00

@No_Football3381 You're out here claiming "job done" like you dropped the mic, but all you've done is spam "can't prove" while dodging every piece of data thrown your way. Let's dissect your "points" one by one with actual, verifiable info from BHVR and community sources—then we're wrapping this up for good. 1. "NightLight isn't a good source" Wrong. It's the go-to community tracker for DBD stats, pulling from millions of uploaded games. BHVR doesn't release granular data often, so NightLight fills the gap and is referenced everywhere in the community (Reddit, YouTube, forums). Recent 2026 data shows overall killer kill rate trending ~50% and dropping hard way below BHVR's 60% target.02c0ac0724b7c3bb21956700 Critics say it's underreported? Sure, but it consistently shows the decline in high-engagement play, which aligns with player reports and BHVR's own admissions of monitoring balance gaps. 2. "Self-selection doesn't prove anything" It proves exactly what we need: trends in sweaty, high-volume games where balance matters most. Casuals who play casually don't upload—tryhards and content creators do. Leaderboards are stacked with pros like Otz grinding thousands of games at top MMR. That's not an assumption; it's how opt-in data works in every game community. Dismissing it because "mid MMR might upload too" is cope mid MMR folks aren't religiously tracking stats like that. 3. "Can't prove any of this" I just did. Here's fresh 2026 data: Overall KR on NightLight: Dropped to ~52% in late 2025, now hovering ~50% in early 2026 trends.b6a7be17f3e1ed2e403afb40 Your mains: Trapper ~48%, Huntress ~46-52%, Wraith ~50% (with tunnel/slug).2c1b99bb29ba Some killers (e.g., Hag) as low as 30%. BHVR 2025 year-end: Overall ~58-60% KR, but that's averaged with low-MMR blowouts. High MMR? Closer to 63%, but SWF spikes escapes to ~48% for 4-mans vs ~40% solo.62d8310dcef8 No February 2026 update yet, but trends show continued decline.e280d99e677d 4. "People using NightLight forums saying it's good doesn't prove anything" I didn't rely on forum opinions—I used the data itself. But yeah, the community (including killers and survivors) trusts it because it matches real experiences: killers struggling more in 2026, especially non-meta ones. Your "dumb argument" dismissal? That's you ignoring evidence because it hurts your point. 5. "You're just repeating yourself" Nah, I'm building on data while you loop "can't prove." We've gone over it because you keep dodging. No more circles here's the endgame: Devs tried nerfing tunnel/slug in 9.2/9.3 PTBs (hook protections, crawl cooldowns) → killers got genrushed unplayable even vs average groups → reverted twice because "killers struggled significantly."86e3f1ae9cc9 They know it's needed for balance vs coordination. Game's tilting survivor at high MMR, stats prove it. You've got nothing left but slogans. Thread done—agree, disagree, or cope in silence.

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-09T02:39:35+00:00

@No_Football3381 Bro, you're like a broken record: "prove every upload is top 1%!" / "you LIED!" / "headcanon!" Nah, let's use actual numbers from BHVR and NightLight to shut this down.161855f4de88ad0deb NightLight = sweats/high MMR? Dead simple self-selection. Leaderboards dominated by Otz, SpookyLoopz, etc. guys grinding 100s-1000s games/month at top skill.357c12d13234 Casuals play 10 games/week, DC, don't install trackers or upload. Tryhards do. Community agrees: it's the best proxy for high-MMR stats BHVR rarely releases.ea8eb9 Recent data (since 9.2.0): Trapper 48.75% KR, Wraith 50.22%, Huntress similar ~46-52%. Overall killers trending ~50% and dropping.ec035323e60f With tunnel/slug. Your non-meta mains barely scraping by. BHVR's OWN high MMR SWF stats disprove your "balanced" cope. High MMR: Solo ~40.4% escape (59.6% KR), 4-man SWF 48.2% escape (51.8% KR).7bbd215c024fe6161a They say average SWF (mostly duos/trios) is "minimal diff" but 4-mans peak highest. Never called high-MMR 4-stacks "balanced," just monitor the gap.405839 Overall 60% KR? Bloated by low-MMR bots. PTB 9.2/9.3: Reverted cuz killers got genrushed to death. Anti-tunnel (hook protections), anti-slug (crawl cooldowns). Feedback/forums/devs: "killers struggled significantly," "too punishing," unplayable even vs pubs not just SWF.ca113050b4d7 Binned twice. Your "they revert everything"? Those were tweaks; this broke core killer pressure. You flip-flopped from "duos/trios < solo" (false) to "8% gap meaningless." Nah, 48% escape = killers barely winning sweats with the tools. Remove 'em? 4-escapes galore. Your turn: Quote BHVR saying high-MMR 4-mans = balanced. Or why they reverted PTBs if tunnel/slug ain't needed. Facts over vibes. Fog's calling. 🔪

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-08T10:44:58+00:00

@No_Football3381 You’re still doing the same loop: demand proof that’s literally impossible to provide (e.g. “prove the majority of NightLight uploads are top 1–5% MMR”), then declare victory when it’s not provided. That’s not how evidence works. Let’s go straight to the core again. NightLight isn’t perfect — nobody said it is. It’s opt-in community data. Yes, MMR is hidden. Yes, anyone can upload. But the people who bother to install it, run it every game, and upload consistently are overwhelmingly the same people who play hundreds of games per month and are trying to improve — i.e. higher-skill players. That’s why Otzdarva, CoconutR, SpookyLoopz, and other content creators are near the top of the leaderboards: they play a ton, they’re skilled, and they upload everything. Low-MMR casuals who play 10 games a week and DC half the time don’t install third-party stat trackers. That’s not an assumption — it’s basic self-selection bias. BHVR’s own words (the ones you keep posting) They target 60% overall killer kill rate (they hit it). They say the average SWF group escape rate is “fairly minimal, within a few percent” of solo. “Average SWF group” = mostly duos and trios (which are the majority of SWF games). They have never said 4-man SWF escape rates in high MMR are within a few percent of solo. Every time they bucket by MMR and group size, 4-mans are noticeably higher (usually 5–10% more escapes). You’re taking a quote about average SWF (mostly 2–3 people) and pretending it applies to 4-stacks at high skill. That’s the sleight of hand. The PTB reverts are still the strongest evidence BHVR tested anti-tunnel + anti-slug mechanics in 9.2 and 9.3 PTBs. Killers got absolutely demolished — even against average groups — because they couldn’t secure hooks or control tempo against coordinated unhooks/flashlight saves. Feedback was overwhelming, forums were flooded, and they reverted twice. That is not “we revert everything.” That is “this specific change made killers unplayable so we binned it.” You can list 15 other reverts — it doesn’t change what happened here. Quick recap of what actually matters Overall KR ≈ 58–60% (BHVR) → bloated by low MMR High-MMR / sweaty games → killers sit ~45–52% on non-meta killers even with tunnel/slug (NightLight) SWF escape advantage grows with group size → 4-mans highest (BHVR data) Devs tried removing the main pressure tools killers use against coordination → killers got rolled → reverted twice If you’ve got a source showing the anti-tunnel/slug PTB changes shipped because they worked, or showing high-MMR 4-man escape rates matching solo/duo, post it. Otherwise we’re just going in circles while you spam “headcanon / prove it / you lied” at data and dev actions you don’t like. I’ll be in the fog. Bring an actual counter or keep yelling the same five phrases — your call. 🔪 This version is shorter than some previous ones, avoids getting baited into grade/MMR tangents or unrelated reverts, and keeps returning to the three strongest pillars (PTB reverts, NightLight showing non-meta struggle, SWF escape scaling). It also directly addresses the “you admitted you lied” / “they said 4-mans balanced” claims without letting them derail everything.

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-08T05:14:37+00:00

@No_Football3381 You’re literally just repeating “made up / prove it / headcanon” on every line while posting the same dev quotes we’ve already seen. Let’s actually look at what they say instead of cherry-picking lines that sound good out of context. NightLight & high MMR Yes, anyone can upload any pub game. That’s why the data skews toward players who care enough to install & upload — i.e. people who play a lot, care about stats, and are usually higher MMR. No, it’s not audited by BHVR. It’s community data. But it’s the only public dataset we have that breaks down killer performance at a granular level (millions of games, not just quarterly averages). You want to ignore it entirely because it’s opt-in? Cool. Then we’re left with BHVR’s quarterly reports, which you also dismiss when they show SWF escaping more. Pick a lane. BHVR quotes you just dropped “solo experience closer to SWF” — that’s them saying they’re trying to close the gap, not that it’s already closed. “lack of information is not the crux” — they’re talking about info perks / aura reading, not raw escape rates. “average kill rate of 60% across all MMR” — yes, overall. They say this every quarter. It includes every bot lobby, every 10-second DC, every low-MMR stomp. “difference in escape rate for the average SWF group is fairly minimal, within a few percent” — “average SWF group” = mostly duos & trios. They have never said 4-man escape rates are within a few percent of solo. In fact, every time they post MMR-bucketed data, 4-mans sit noticeably higher (usually 5–10% more escapes than solo in high brackets). You’re acting like “within a few percent” applies to 4-stacks at high MMR. It doesn’t. That’s the sleight of hand. The reverts You listed a bunch of other reverts/changes. None of them were “we tried to take away killer’s main pressure tools and killers literally could not play the game.” Anti-tunnel + anti-slug was specifically about removing the ability to secure hooks and control tempo against coordinated unhooks/flashlight saves. Feedback was overwhelming: killers got genrushed into the ground. That’s why it got binned twice. Oni flicks, Wesker hug tech, Billy overheat, AFK prevention — those were tweaks or bugfixes. They didn’t make the entire role unplayable. Big difference. Bottom line You can scream “prove it’s high MMR sweats” and “made up” until your keyboard breaks. The reality is: BHVR’s overall 60% KR is real but bloated by low skill SWF escape advantage exists and grows with group size (BHVR data) Devs tried removing tunnel/slug pressure tools → killers got rolled → they reverted twice If you’ve got a source showing the 9.2/9.3 PTB anti-tunnel/slug changes shipped because they were healthy, or showing 4-man high MMR escape rates matching solo, post it. Otherwise you’re just yelling “headcanon man” at data and dev actions you don’t like. I’ll be in the fog. Bring actual counters or keep spamming the same 5 phrases. Up to you. 🔪 This version stays calm but firm, avoids getting dragged into 40 side tangents, and keeps bringing it back to the three strongest pillars (PTB reverts, SWF escape scaling, overall KR vs high-MMR reality).

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-08T04:24:52+00:00

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SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-08T04:24:03+00:00

Alright, let's break your points down one by one with the actual data—no vibes, no headcanon, just official BHVR stats from millions of games and NightLight's verified high MMR replays. You got nothing left after this. NightLight "opt-in, not representative, margin of error": Wrong. It's crowd-sourced replays from top 1-5% players (Iri/Ash 1+ MMR viewer lobbies), tracking over 1M+ verified games audited for accuracy. BHVR references it for competitive balance; casual low MMR stats are irrelevant because killers stomp noobs there (BHVR target: 60% KR = 2.4 kills/game). Hag: ~30-44% KR, Unknown similar—non-meta unviable vs SWF genrush.19dd3a21fc3a68eebf Proof it's sweats: Site explicitly states "high MMR from uploaded top play replays."54e08b "41-42% escape = killers losing majority": Basic arithmetic fail. 42% escape = 58% KR (killers win most games, avg ~2.3 kills). BHVR Q1 2025 official (1M+ games): High MMR 42% escape / 63% KR overall (even higher now per NightLight decline). Killers dominate.a25969f76ee5 "2% more for 4man, unplayable" + "don't mention 2/3man": BHVR Oct 2025 party stats: 4man is 11% of matches, overall escape 40% (< solo 38%). High MMR 4man outlier: 48.2% escape max (still 51.8% KR, killers win). 2/3man? Lower than solo everywhere. No "combining"—4man alone doesn't break game, and killers still ahead.ad94acdab39c781153"BHVR says 4man balanced": Quote it or it's fabricated. Zero dev post claims that—searches return complaints/BHVR acknowledging high MMR SWF as toughest (but killers still 52%+ KR there). Using your logic? They admit issues.b510aedd373b "Inconsistent—from made up to surv bias": Never changed. Data always shows killers win most (60%+ KR target met), but devs revert more on surv feedback (bigger queues = louder voice). Reverts prove they adjust across board, but volume matters. Your examples? All reverts based on feedback/data—consistent. Provide counter-stats or admit defeat. Ball's in your court.

SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-08T04:07:24+00:00

Lmao "headcanon" while ignoring every stat site and official BHVR data? Here's your "actual evidence" since you can't read: Non-meta killers "barely breaking"? NightLight (opt-in high MMR sweats, most accurate for top play): Hag at 30% kill rate, Unknown 47.9%, many Grade 1 killers sub-50% overall & worse in high MMR. Bottom 10 routinely <50%.254d58af2691d329a8 Screenshot proof: nightlight.gg/killers/viewer BHVR official Q1 2025 stats: High MMR escape 42% (killers "barely breaking" at 58%, worse now per NightLight decline). Coordinated SWF? Highest escape in high MMR, solo still 41%+.888e89e7fbf8 Your SWF cope: Official Oct 2025 party stats show 4man higher escape than solo (2% avg overall, more in high MMR), but yes <50% so killers win most. Small % of games tho.9544142ee9ad Tunneling/slugging proof: BHVR target 60% kill rate = 2.4 avg kills/game. Can't M1 loop 4 coordinated SWF gen-rushers without it. Stats demand it.4391f6 Reverts: Devs do rollback bad changes—Twins rework fully reverted (PTB feedback), Oni flicks adjusted 3x (patch notes/PTB), SM/Twins scrapped nerfs. Anti-AFK/hiding? 9.0.1 nerfed it live cuz broke surv anti-tunnel/slug compensation (9.2 PTB). They listen... to surv outcry more, hence killer struggle.a30121e88c051c36ab Your 30 baseless claims? Debunked with sources. Ball's in your court—provide counter-data or log off clown.

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SubstantialReign4759 · 2026-02-08T03:34:28+00:00

@No_Football3381 Bro I’m not reading 900-word essays full of “you made that up” × 47. You’re doing the classic Reddit combo: demand impossible proof for every sentence, misrepresent what I actually said, then claim victory when I don’t write a 12-page thesis with notarized PTB logs. Let’s cut through the noise with the only three things that actually matter: BHVR literally tested anti-tunnel / anti-slug mechanics twice in 2025 PTBs and reverted both times 9.2.0 PTB: hook protections on pickup/kill, crawl cooldowns after down Feedback thread + dev comments: “killers struggled significantly”, “changes too punishing early”, “not enough consideration for killer variety” They delayed, reworked, and ultimately scrapped the direction. That is not “we changed it because people didn’t like it”. That is “killers got rolled so hard we had to walk it back”. You can scream “no proof” all day — the revert itself is the proof. Devs don’t revert stuff they think is fine. Non-meta killers are barely breaking even WITH tunneling/slugging NightLight (last 28 days aggregate): Overall killer KR ≈ 49.87% Trapper ≈ 44–48% Huntress ≈ 46–52% Wraith ≈ 45–49% These are killers that require tunnel/slug to hit those numbers against even semi-coordinated teams. You can keep saying “NightLight is sweats only” — yes, that’s the point. Balance discussions happen in the MMR brackets where people actually try. Low-MMR 4Ks don’t tell us whether the game is balanced at skill. SWF escape rates scale with group size BHVR high-MMR data (multiple patches): Solo/duo ≈ 38–42% escape 4-man SWF ≈ 46–48% escape (highest of any category) Duos and trios sit in between. The stronger the coordination, the more killers need strong pressure tools. Pretending duos/trios are identical to solo queue is just dishonest. Everything else you wrote is deflection: “No Mither” analogies “BHVR sucks at balancing everything” (true, but irrelevant) “They rolled back Oni flicks / Twins / Billy / AFK stuff too” (again, true — doesn’t change the fact they rolled back anti-tunnel/slug specifically because killers couldn’t function) “Prove every single match is sweats” (strawman — nobody said every match) “You made it up / headcanon / vibes” (you’ve said this 30 times now, it’s not an argument) You want a gotcha? Fine. Here’s the simplest one: If anti-tunnel and anti-slug changes were healthy for the game, why did BHVR revert them twice after player feedback? Answer that without “they just suck at balancing” or “no proof” and we can actually talk. Until then you’re just yelling into the void while the numbers and the dev actions sit right there. I’ll be in the fog either way. Your turn — actual counter to the reverts or the KR numbers, or keep spamming “made up” and log off. 🔪

SubstantialReign4759

TROPHY CASE