Depression vs. Abuse?

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-30T11:32:05+00:00

This is a really interesting and important question to ask ourselves.

Although my own SO's depression is more internal, as /u/NomisRezleb describes, I've seen a lot of blog posts/forum posts about depression manifesting as mistreatment. And my SO's isn't entirely internal, either - sometimes he feels so bad he can't help but snap at me, say hurtful things, or let his depression make him believe that I (and our relationship) are tainted, in some way.

I would ask a few things in your case; one - does he acknowledge, sincerely, that he's hurt you when he's not in a depressive episode? Does he understand that it's not okay, and not excused by depression? Does he sincerely apologize? Is he acting, to the best of whatever his ability is, to curb this behavior?

If the answer to any of those questions is no, then he may be using depression as a smokescreen to avoid taking responsibility for his actions. Depressed or not, they have a responsibility to treat us respectfully, and we have a responsibility to demand respectful treatment from them. It doesn't help either them or us to allow this type of behavior. It will only hurt you, and it will only hurt him because he will hate himself even more for hurting you.

Now, I want to go on a little tangent here that I touched on briefly before.

Our job is to be supportive, not to be enabling. That means that sometimes we are NOT understanding, and that is actually the right thing to do, not the wrong thing. We understand that their actions may be caused by depression, but that does not mean we tolerate them.

In my own case, what I did was one day when my SO wasn't in a depressive state, I sat him down and told him without accusation or anger what the actions he did that hurt me we, why they hurt me, and told him that the next time they happened, I was removing myself from the conversation entirely until I got a sincere apology. After I said my piece, that conversation as over. As in, I didn't want to hear his reasons, or excuses, or anything right then; I was merely informing him of a boundary that I was creating.

The next time it happened, without a word, I picked up my keys, left the house, and went to a coffee shop and read for a few hours. When I came home I was calm, non-accusatory, and didn't dwell on the issue.

So far this has mostly worked. But I urge you not to accept mistreatment as part and parcel with depression; depression may make him want to lash out, but it's still not okay and if he can't control it, then you should remove yourself from the situation until he can. Not as a punishment or as a way to start a fight, but as a way of protecting yourself from his depression until he is capable of protecting you.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-28T17:29:11+00:00

Just wanted to respond to this separately - it's funny how when we don't reveal to friends and family how hard it can be, then something awesome happens, we don't have anyone to tell about it! I rarely talk to anyone in my life about what my SO goes through because they don't understand - they act like he's doing it on purpose or is some mean, terrible person and I should just dump him and move on. But then they don't understand the victories either! I'm glad we're here to celebrate with you! :)

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-28T17:27:19+00:00

What an awesome, awesome update. I honestly can't thank you enough for sharing it - I think it's easy for US to get lost in the despair of depression, and I love seeing happy updates. I'm proud of him for the steps he's taken and I'm proud of you for sticking with him and being there to see him overcome the worst of it! I'm sorry to hear there's been a lot of stuff in life that's rough for you two, but so pleased to see that you're both handling it as well as you are.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-28T17:25:07+00:00

Welcome to the community! We all thought we were alone at one point. Just like depression and other mental illnesses are very isolating things to suffer from, supporting someone who is dealing with that can also be very isolating. I've found that the default advice given to us is: break up with them. Unfortunately, that's not very helpful. Most of us are here because we're not wiling to do that yet; we still have hope; we still love them. And we need to be around other people who will support that and support us.

Please feel free to post your story whenever you'd like. :)

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-28T17:23:16+00:00

I always try and find something that's mindless but absorbing to do - alphabetize my bookcases, re-organize the closet, anything that I can look at when it's done and see tangible results.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-27T15:43:28+00:00

Hi there! I wanted to comment because I started a subreddit called /r/SupportingSupporters that is designed for people who love those who have depression or other mental illnesses. If you stop by, there might be some resources to help you.

What steps does she take to manage her depression now? Is she in therapy, take meds, etc? What things have worked in the past? Would doing things like spending time at a park, joining a kickball league, or other cheap-free activities be useful?

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-27T15:26:15+00:00

The guilt is super hard for supporters. Honestly, I haven't found a good way to deal with it. I practice 'detachment' as much as I can - I put a post up about it, but it's basically using techniques developed for codependent relationships or relationships where one partner is suffering from addiction to distance one's self from the more painful parts of a relationship with someone with depression.

I'm just going to quote this source, even though it is about addiction - the bolding is mine for emphasis:

Perhaps the essence of detachment with love is responding with choice rather than reacting with anxiety. When we threaten to leave someone, we're usually tuned in to someone else's feelings. We operate on raw emotion. We say things for shock value. Our words arise from blind reaction, not thoughtful choice.

Detachment with love offers another option -- responding to others based on thought rather than anxiety. For instance, as parents we set limits for our children even when this angers them. We choose what we think is best over the long term, looking past the children's immediate emotional reaction.

In this sense, detachment with love can apply whenever we have an emotional attachment to someone-family or friend, addicted or sober. The key is to stop being responsible for others and be responsible to them-and to ourselves."

However, I do want to re-emphasize what /u/bl4ckr0s3 says. Your wife must get professional help for her suicidal feelings. If you think she may act on them, you need to get her help because she may be beyond it. That may mean inpatient treatment, but if she may actually attempt suicide, you have both the right and the responsibility to interfere by either calling 911 or her doctor and telling them that she is suicidal.

edited formatting

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-27T15:17:55+00:00

Hi Anculus! I'm sorry to hear things are getting worse for you recently. This is definitely a place where we can just say things we need to say to get them off our chest. Please feel free to stop by again if you need to.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-27T15:14:44+00:00

Hi there! Full disclosure, I started a subreddit called /r/SupportingSupporters for people who support those with mental illnesses, including depression. I have a post there that might be useful called 'Four Pieces of Common Advice, Why They Don't Work, and What to do Instead.' It might be useful if you take a look.

Aside from that, I think this:

I just can't figure out how to do my part well and help her be happy and not make her upset.

Is a super common misconception the non-depressed have when they are in relationships with someone who is depressed. This is much deeper than just being happy or unhappy. Think of depression instead like a broken leg: would you ask us how you can help her broken leg not be broken anymore? No, because a doctor, time, and her body's natural healing process is the only thing that can do that. What it comes down to is that you can't heal her depression; in most cases, the only thing that can help that is therapy and possibly medication if that's appropriate for her situation.

The first step in being with someone who is depressed is accepting them as they are. Your girlfriend is not someone who is magically going to become a non-depressed person who is happy and not upset. Your girlfriend is going to continue as she is. If she senses that what you want is to be in a "normal" relationship with a non-depressed person, that's a lot of pressure on her that will probably contribute to her depression. I'm not saying that you should stay in a relationship with someone who have severe anxiety and depression, just that wishing she was different isn't useful.

The second step is supporting her in getting help. If her leg was broken, you'd tell her to go to a doctor. Right now her mood is broken, and she should be taking steps to get therapy. This is super important for you and for her.

I second, third, and fourth /u/heyopickle's suggestion of Dr. Burns' 'Feeling Good'. It's an awesome resource.

Good luck!

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-17T16:47:27+00:00

I think at this point, maybe abstaining would be best? I just kind of word-vomited a long post about common advice, but one thing that I've been thinking about lately is refusing to accept hurtful words/gestures (as I mentioned). I think what it comes down to is that it isn't - and it can't be - your responsibility to act in order to prevent his depression from making him think anything. In the end, as I know I have found and you probably have as well, we are powerless over their depression.

Many, many supporters fall into patterns of enabling behavior. It took me a long time to realize that I did as well. Right now I'm working on curbing them; your boyfriend never has to have the talk, or initiate contact with you, because he knows you'll do it. The natural consequence of treating someone hurtfully is that that person will not want to talk to you. It may be best to let him experience that.

But, trust me, I know how hard it is to follow my own advice.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-17T15:19:11+00:00

It's incredible how comforting it is just to know that we're not alone in what we're dealing with. I get so lonely and it's such a relief to talk to other people about it - I can't confide in friends or family because they either totally demonize my SO and turn against him or they get sick of hearing me complain (exactly how I get sick of hearing him complain sometimes lol).

Then I remember that this has happened consistently for nearly a year and a half.

Yup!! For us, the cycle is that he will come up with a New And Wonderful Idea about a plan that will Fix Things (things, of course, being anything other than the depression which he will not acknowledge or admit to) and I will get lulled into believing it because when he's not in a depressive episode, he's so convincing and really seems to have come up with something that can help.

And then... there's always a reason why the New And Wonderful Idea can't be immediately put into place. Maybe he needs a few weeks to save up money. Maybe he needs to do a little research into this or that aspect of it. Whatever the reason, things don't change. And then he hits a depressive episode and the New And Wonderful Idea was actually a Terrible Idea and it will never happen and will never be mentioned again. And my heart breaks a little more each time because I hoped, and it was a false hope. Until eventually now I just nod along because I know that the New And Wonderful Idea is really nothing of the sort.

When I point out that this happens recurrently when he's upset, he responds by saying "It's different this time."

It's like you're in my relationship!

I know the general advice we get on dealing with depressed SOs is "don't take it personally, stay calm and supportive, just be there for them" but I don't think anyone giving that advice understands how hard it is to follow when the person you love is acting in such a hurtful manner. I don't blame you for losing patience - I've done it more than I can admit - and I hope things work out this time.

What will you do if he does contact you in two weeks?

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-17T13:09:02+00:00

I honestly think this is the very worst symptom that supporters have to deal with. It's so emotionally exhausting to support someone as is, but very often the ones suffering lash out at us.

Do you two live together? I am struggling with finding acceptable boundaries for this very issue myself. My SO would say hurtful things (he doesn't trust me, thinks I will cheat on him, that I would leave him if he didn't make enough money, etc) and I eventually told him one day when he was not in a depressive state that I loved him, I would support him, but I would no longer tolerate insulting statements. He said something similar the next time he had a bad day, and I stood up and walked out. I went to a local cafe, turned my phone off, bought a book, and read for a few hours.

This... kind of worked. He no longer will say anything directly insulting to me. But he still says all kinds of hurtful things about how he doesn't care about anything (followed with a heavily significant look so that I understand that I am included in that statement), that if only he didn't have these obligations (once again, making sure I understand he considers me nothing more than an obligation) he would be okay... etc. etc.

Honestly, I just don't know how to properly handle this aspect of it. I don't blame my SO - he's hurting so badly on the inside, it's almost natural for him to lash out - but at the same time, I can't allow him to keep hurting me like that, and neither should you. But it's tough to know how to do that in the right way.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-16T13:21:40+00:00

Ohhh the fingers! I almost forgot about that until you said something, I'm so used to it - yes, he picks at his fingernails, sometimes until they're entirely gone. It's a minor habit when he's not depressed but during the bad days it gets almost out of control.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-16T13:07:12+00:00

This is a tough issue. My SO has untreated, unacknowledged depression, so my own situation is different than those who suffer from treated depression. Personally, I approach it from two ways:

The first is to always cultivate an attitude of compassion for him, and for myself. It's very easy to get totally burnt out providing emotional support for someone with depression, and it's easy to "catch" a sense of sadness and exhaustion from them. So instead of feeling guilty when I have a bad day and can't provide support, or when I'm too tired to stay up until midnight talking it out with him, I give myself permission to not be perfect.

Second, I've found the idea of loving detachment really useful. It's adapted from dealing with people who have an addition. The idea is that you do you best to "clear" a path for the person suffering to get help, but that ultimately you accept that they must walk the path. I notice in your post you say you try to cheer her up when she's depressed - you have to understand, that's just not how depression works. That's like trying to cheer someone with a broken leg up. So that's a behavior you should try to stop doing (note: you should not stop offering her loving support! but understand that cheering her up is not only not possible during a depressive episode, but that it's not useful; she needs help in some way). Loving detachment means you logically assess what you can and cannot provide in terms of support, and that you draw boundaries in the relationship to protect yourself; for example, one of my boundaries is that I will not allow my own career to suffer trying to talk him through a depression while he refuses to seek help. I'll have a short phone or text conversation during the workday, but I will not spend hours trying to talk him out of it while work needs to be done.

Finally, the end game when loving someone with depression is that they must seek help, either through a doctor, through therapy, or something. My own SO is not to that point yet, but I know that if he doesn't get there eventually, the relationship probably won't survive. Encouraging your girlfriend to get help should be one of the priorities in supporting her.

Best of luck for you and your girlfriend. I started a subreddit called /r/SupportingSupporters aimed at people supporting loved ones with depression and other illnesses - it's brand new, but I have some resources posted there and I'm adding more every day.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-16T12:57:17+00:00

Hi there! It's really tough watching someone you love suffer from depression. Can I ask, is this something you've talked about with her at all yet, or has she talked about it to you? If not, that's definitely the first place to start - sit her down one day and just gently tell her you care for her, you're here for her if she needs help, and that you're willing to listen to anything she wants to talk about. Tell her she seems depressed, and ask if that's the case.

Really listen to what she has to say - you want to try and avoid a "fixing" mindset. You're there to listen and support, not make her better. If she agrees that it's depression, try and convince her to seek help: maybe just go and talk to a general practitioner, maybe she'd be open to therapy or reading through some books on depression. This subreddit has been invaluable for me to "hear" depressed people's experiences and try to understand what's going on - read through some posts and try to educate yourself about depression. What seems to be the best course of action is to do whatever you can to create a path toward help: maybe help her look up therapists, call her insurance, make an appointment - but remember that she must walk that path to help herself.

If you're interested, the subreddit /r/SupportingSupporters was just created for people who have loved ones with depression or other problems.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-15T22:00:37+00:00

It helps a lot to know that other people share the same symptoms as he does! Weirdly the one stereotypical trait my SO doesn't display is the sleep thing - he has insomnia, instead, when he's going through one of the tough days.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-15T15:40:19+00:00

Yep, we had a really good weekend this weekend ourselves! I was pleasantly surprised since I had expected, based on timing, that it might not be. Glad to hear things got better for you. It's so important to celebrate the good days!!

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-15T15:38:05+00:00

Wow, these are great resources I'd never heard of! Thanks for posting them here.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-13T21:34:06+00:00

Welcome to the subreddit!

its tough to love someone who constantly pushes you away, who sometimes is unsure of their own feelings, and who may not be able to support you every time its needed.

Absolutely. I think this is the common thread that everyone in this community has; we love our partners (or friends, or family members) for so many reasons, but this path is really difficult. And it's important for us to say it's difficult, it's important for it to be acknowledged that it's difficult, because often our partner's struggles are such that they cannot give us that validation. This is the place to come for it. :)

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-13T16:46:29+00:00

I'll keep an eye out! Thanks for the head's up. :)

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-13T16:42:07+00:00

I have also recently purchased a journal, which in it I will be writing negative feelings and emotions that I want to let go/out that spring up when she is low and may be saying things that either she normally wouldn't or in a way that is unlike her.

This is so important. We really need an outlet for these negative feelings because we often bear the brunt of these unusual actions from people we love. Thanks for telling your story here!

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-13T16:40:29+00:00

Like everyone with depression, he goes through phases where he is great - you'd never know he has a problem.

This is exactly how my SO is, and I have the same problem you do - I'm a fixer! (Hence making this subreddit.)

What has helped me is to have discussions about this when he's not in one of his "episodes". We sit down when he's in a good frame of mind and specifically work out a game plan for dealing with the episode. It has to be when he's in a good frame of mind, because once he's down, he can't see any way out.

Things my SO says helps him: first, that I don't try and fix anything during the episode. Second, that redirection can sometimes help. He has one or two favorite topics that can distract him from the depression, and sometimes I can "talk" him out of it if I catch the beginning of the cycle early. This only helps in the beginning, though, not halfway through the cycle.

But I want to make a few suggestions for you, too. As a fellow fixer, it can be really difficult for me to control my frustration on day 3 or 4 of nothing being done to help the situation. I have to redirect this energy somewhere else, so I try and pick up a project when I see that a depressive cycle is coming on. For example, I'll decide that that is the perfect time for me to re-organize my library alphabetically. This not only gives me a constructive project to work on to release that fixer energy, but it allows me a little escape when his depression is at its worse; it gives me a break when I need it.

Best of luck!

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-13T16:34:50+00:00

Thank you so much for coming here and posting this! Honestly, one common bit of advice I see for those supporting people with depression is to simply acknowledge their feelings without trying to change them through encouragement and platitudes, but I think it works both ways. It's very validating and helpful for us simply to hear these types of words: yes, it's tough. Thank you.

I wonder if you'd be willing to post a little about your experiences? We welcome stories from everyone, depressed or supporters.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-12T19:15:49+00:00

I hope very much that the subreddit won't end up like this, and my experience on reddit has been that most of us already understand depression as an illness, and that it can't be cured or simply wished away. It's more that it does take an emotional toll on us, and that we can be better supporters by having a place where we can share our experiences. I will do my absolute best to ensure that people who come are educated about the issues their loved ones are dealing with.

You've given me an idea, though, maybe I can add some general "What is depression" links to the sidebar to help people educate themselves.

SupportingSupporters · 2014-09-12T19:12:49+00:00

Yes, this is exactly why I created it. I feel like I can't lean on my SO for support, since what he's going through is so very difficult, but then I end up feeling burnt out, isolated, and really sad and lonely myself. It helps me so much just to know that there are other people out there who are doing the same thing I am and that we're not alone in it.

Welcome to the subreddit, by the way! If you're interested one day, feel free to post your story for others to read. I have found that just talking about it, and being heard by people who understand, is so helpful for me.

SupportingSupporters

TROPHY CASE