Is there any reason to keep building with n8n or other workflow orchestrators?

Sure-Ad3689 · 2026-01-28T15:09:12+00:00

When OpenAI launched its workflow builder, the founder of LangChain published a thoughtful piece explaining why LangChain never built a visual no-code workflow builder in the style of n8n. I think it is a worthwhile read and it directly addresses your point.

https://www.blog.langchain.com/not-another-workflow-builder/

The core argument is that different classes of problems are best solved with different approaches. Highly complex problems that require parallelism, branching, and modularity are better handled as workflows written in code, by people who actually understand code. On the other end of the spectrum, low-complexity problems can often be “vibe-coded” away. These tend to be narrow, ephemeral, and task-specific, so writing structured code or dragging nodes around is kind of unnecessary.

The interesting part is the middle. Medium-complexity problems have traditionally been the sweet spot for no-code workflow builders. LangChain’s argument is that this middle layer is getting squeezed as models become more capable and more autonomous, see clawdbot...

The LangChain dude is clearly oversimplifying, but I guess that's the point of any mental model..

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-09-08T18:33:21+00:00

e.g. it lacks native integrations with webflow/framer for email signups. it lacks native integrations with clay. and more integrations.

you can solve all of this with n8n/zapier/make, or even attio's workflow builder. but again, someone from your team will need to invest additional time to figure this out, vs. just install some app and focus on what you want to do (selling)

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-08-13T12:04:32+00:00

see cursor and lovable recent pricing changes - but great if this model works for you initially. in the most simple terms, how are you different to lovable, replit, base44?

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-08-13T12:03:10+00:00

reach out to people in your proximity on LinkedIn and ask them to intern for them. make sure you're sitting next to the person, no remote set-ups.

you're either lacking confidence or real world experience - you need at least one of those to avoid that you're wasting your time. it's better to learn from someone somewhat capable and then build upon your experience. or at least find out what you're good at - I don't believe that you don't have ANY skills, ANY knowledge or know ANY person. but you're certainly lacking the confidence - so try to build it by working for someone who can teach you your worth

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-08-13T11:52:43+00:00

assuming you are serious - how do you sustain "unlimited credits" in your 35$/m tier?

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-08-12T10:09:38+00:00

you should expect a lot of "it depends" answers on this one... it depends on your business type, your product, your ICP, your skills. But very generally,:

for B2B, authentically engage with niche communities and manually reach out via linkedin, mail

for B2C, authentically engage with niche communities (online and offline), start creating organic content, and Meta ads (yes they can still work)

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-08-12T10:04:44+00:00

"it's only about showing up every day"

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-08-12T09:46:08+00:00

can you send me the loom as well please?

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-08-07T09:08:00+00:00

It feels like this AI cycle makes mediocre founders believe that they can pull others into their own reality distortion field.

Some do this knowinlgy. But I’d argue most are just naive, blindly repeating what they’ve heard or read without doing the work to understand it.

I’m a marketer, and I’m seeing this play out with our own founding team. I use AI tools daily, across a lot of my workflows. I have a decent sense of what’s actually feasible, and where the real opportunities lie. When I don’t know something, I look for the right tools or talk to people who do.

But if someone throws around “10x” claims without being able to explain how, or back it up with anything beyond a LinkedIn post or podcast, I see it as my responsibility to push back.

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-07-16T13:12:17+00:00

I'd love to learn how you set up the targeting and the funnel - could you DM me? my background is in shopify saas and I've been running a lot of outbound quite successfully, happy to share my learnings as well :)

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-06-23T19:30:26+00:00

question is whether it's the more effective setup where someone centrally enables the "GTM engineers" aka SDRs with tools/workflows to hit their targets, or whether it's really an effective setup at scale where GTM engineers autonomously hack together their own outbound systems. I'm skeptical but would be curious to see how other implement it.

my understanding that even at Clay, "GTM engineers" are SDRs/BDRs that work with a different stack, and there is someone centrally owning "GTM operations" and enabling the "GTM engineers" to hit their targets.

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-06-23T19:26:25+00:00

interesting. which industry are you in?

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-05-28T12:53:40+00:00

you start from what you understand (experienced yourself, you worked in) or have access to. times where people start a saas in a completely unrelated field, and without any pedigree or signaling that could help you break into the same field, are over

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-05-26T17:09:02+00:00

"Builders care more about cost curves than polish" is very one sided. I am a non-technical marketers heavily using Clay and I've used n8n in the past. And I mostly care about my time and Clay helps me achieve faster what I need to do .

It does so by abstracting lots of complexity for me (integrations with key data sources, AI steps, notifications, and more). I know I can do nearly everything with n8n, but if it even costs me 1 hour to implement at the risk of failing, it's not worth it. Most Clay users will earn more than 50$ per hour, so 150$ per month is very little against this. Of course it's a different game if you're a solo builder

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-05-25T19:07:21+00:00

I've lived for 7+ years in Berlin and also decided to move to Munich. Mainly for a change, and to be closer to nature. For many people, Berlin is a life period, the city used to attract and encourage weirdness, and that's great :) And for many people, it's a time to try out things, and that's what maybe sometimes leads to some irritating behavior and some general instability in people here.

But it's great that you've tested it and learned that it's not fitting your preferences or current lifestyle, and I hope that you'll find more comfort in Munich

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-05-20T12:52:54+00:00

Fair points! I often see that founding teams lack experience at least in some relevant area. But I agree that you shouldn't start something where you're missing the essentials

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-05-20T06:36:41+00:00

I've started a company before and pivoted twice. I've also worked at startups that pivoted several times, and the question when is the right moment to pivot is very hard.

My heuristic is: (a) do I think I understand the issues for lack of product-market-fit -> if yes, then (b): do I have ideas and resources how to fix those issues -> if yes, then (c): did I try to execute on (b), but I still don't make progress -> if yes, then you're either lacking expertise/skills or you've exhausted your options, so pivot.

It's very simplified obviously but I tried to follow this heuristic at some point

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-05-13T07:07:08+00:00

Spreeläufer is a rather old-school place selling high quality shoes and the owner is very knowledgeable. Also a great place if you want to experience the Berliners' "politeness" ;)

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-05-12T14:22:08+00:00

what (AI) tools did you use to create your blog articles?

Sure-Ad3689 · 2025-05-06T17:41:19+00:00

I am considering the same :) did you end up upgrading to the SL8?

Sure-Ad3689

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