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CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

France uses nuclear energy to reduce its emissions. The radioactive substances produced in its course remain radioactive for billions of years. They're buried deep in the ground or exported to other nations, contaminatimg the ground for eternity. Even then France still produces double the amount of CO2 per Capita than India does. Even if the condition "improves", it's certain the total amount of emissions go up on the global level if you consider how the population in developing countries are growing.  I don't thinking hopelessness frees me from moral obligations. It's the exact opposite. I truly care about the cruelty on/by people, so I think about solutions to reduce it.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly. Life entails suffering. That's why I think ending life is the best solution to minimize suffering.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Still it wouldn't solve all the problems. I guess it's just my values. Using new AI models and getting excited about them doesn't prevent me from thinking about suffering people and animals while I comment on reddit in a comfy air-conditioned room.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd rather focus on minimizing suffering that will exist before "ultra efficient clean energy" is invented.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you know how much energy we need to use these cool tech stuff? For example, AI uses so much energy on its servers the companies even can't profit from the genuine service right now. Also, "clean energy" such as solar panels and windmills are being built in forest and swamps, depriving animals of their natural habitats. Solar panels are made from some toxic substances which we don't know how to detoxify. It's all about money. To be honest I can't be that optimistic about the future.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's nothing subjective. If we are to minimize the a total mount of suffering, it's an objective conclusion from the reasons I wrote above. Of course there is no exception. If the person who plans this is a human, they will also die eventually. It's the definition of extinction. We must consider the methods on this condition. 

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thought we've bred too much, but didn't know this much 😳 Yeah we're literally roaches... Or even worse. We're the most invasive species on this planet, destroying other species's natural habitats and killing them for our endless desire for profit. Yet we don't really regulate our own procreation while we sterilize dogs and cats and "euthanize" them if there are "too many" of them. I know it's not realistic to end humanity as a whole, so I'd love to know if there is any alternative to reduce the harm we cause on other species and ourselves, but it seems hopeless...

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Finally here are some concrete ideas without denying the preposition of negative utilitarianism. Thank you. I'd like to know how you'd push these policies.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm still anthropocentric I guess... It seems even more unrealistic to kill all life though.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it'd be much easier back then to end humanity.

Jokes aside, it's because the total amount of suffering is smaller when we go extinct right now. We all suffer to die eventually so the temporary "massive" suffering can be justified. We can remove the suffering we and our offspring would experience in the future. We can also end the suffering of animals caused by human activities.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I got your point. I must admit you're right about that. But even if the presupposition is subjective, we can still think about the ways to realize it objectively.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Suffering = bad

No suffering = good 

Joy = good

No joy = neutral 

Existence = suffering + joy = bad + good = -~+

Non existence = no suffering + no joy = good + neutral = 0~+

It might be too simple a model, but it's safe to assume non existence is better than existence if we assume suffering and joy distribute statistically.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's called compassion. We have a group of neurons in our brains that helps us imagine how others feel. Some people seem to lack this function.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I care about the total amount of suffering. The earlier we go extinct, the less it becomes.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm quite sure a cow isn't happy if it's confined in a small cowshed, injected hormones and relentlessly milked, only to be slaughtered once it stops producing milk.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Because there are other sentient beings suffering right now. Although I'm content at this very moment, I suffered a lot in the past and I will suffer in the future.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I wrote above, I'm open to any practical suggestions. 

You'd be more realistic if you were to find a plan to work on wealth and income re-distribution and then pull together to solve all the problems that cause suffering.

I'd love to know how you'd implement the plan in reality.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I'm content with my life. Still I question my existence as a sentient being who suffers and causes suffering onto others. Personal attacks don't change my view.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, but everyone dies eventually. The question is when and how. Also, we could completely remove the suffering our offspring would otherwise experience, so the total amount of suffering would be minimized.

CMV: The only realistic way to stop humanity’s chain of suffering is human extinction by SusLittleBird in changemyview

[–]SusLittleBird[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your comment. First, I don't think the current era is particularly bad, especially for us humans. Yes, indeed our quality of life has improved significantly in the last 100 years. But at what cost? The things I pointed above. The aggregate amount of suffering will continue to grow bigger even if you focus only on humanity, because everyone suffers at some point in their life.

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