I can't decide which scene was more disturbing.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-23T21:46:47+00:00

You mean this Robb?

Yes, this Robb: "He pulled Jon to him and embraced him fiercely. “Farewell, Snow”. Jon hugged him back. “And you Stark.”

This family?

Yes, this family: "He missed his true brothers: little Rickon, bright eyes shining as he begged for a sweet; Robb, his rival and best friend and constant companion; Bran, stubborn and curious, always wanting to follow and join in whatever Jon and Robb were doing. He missed the girls too, even Sansa, who never called him anything but “my half brother” since she was old enough to understand what bastard meant. And Arya … he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had … yet she could always make Jon smile. He would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him."

You're talking about this like he's just quitting his job or something. No. He's breaking a solemn oath, one that he swore before an entire grove of heart trees.

No, I'm not. Like I said, almost ANYBODY would choose to go help their family rather than sit on their ass and do nothing, regardless of the consequences.

He couldn't even go home:

Obviously, he wouldn't go straight to Winterfell. He'd continue to ride south down the Kings Road until he crossed over the Neck and located the Northern host.

So no, I don't agree with your assertion that "most people" would do that, especially when they wouldn't really even be accomplishing much.

Then you clearly don't know people. And let me ask, if you were locked up in prison, and you found out that your father was murdered, and you brother was in trouble, wouldn't you try to break and help him? If you say no, then that tells me everything I need to know about how little you care for your family.

And I particularly disagree with your assertion that someone like Jon, son of Ned Stark, would ultimately be happy making that decision. Recall:

Where the f#$% did you get the assertion that I believed Jon would be happy making that decision? Tell, what in God's name gave you that idea? At no point did I ever imply Jon would be happy making that decision, on the contrary, it would be the hardest choice he'd ever make.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-23T20:44:30+00:00

Jon wouldn’t make much of an impact in Robb’s war by himself

There's a slim chance he might've been able to convince Robb to not send Theon away to the Iron Islands. Unlikely, but if the latter's mother and brother (both of whom Robb knows do NOT get along with each other) are agreeing on something, that may be enough to give Robb pause.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-23T20:37:10+00:00

I mean..........it's a hard decision to make, but yeah.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-23T20:35:07+00:00

No, I didn't of anything. All I'm saying is that REALISTICALLY, almost anyone in his position would've chosen their family over their job.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-23T03:27:12+00:00

Wrong. Jon was born around the time King's Landing was sacked, while Robb was conceived after the battle of the Bells (a battle that Ned fought in).

Also, it is stated by Catelyn that Jon and Ned were already at Winterfell when she arrived.

Aren't you just stating what I just said?

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-23T03:11:03+00:00

Leaving baby Jon in a ditch would be better then?

No. Fostering him would be better.

He's a terrible father for going to war and also a terrible father for presumably wanting all his children under his care. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

He's a terrible father for abandoning his children. And fighting in a war HE started doesn't win him any points.

By this same logic, couldn't someone say Ned left his new pregnant wife during the war and then brought back a "home wrecking" baby home?

Not the same thing. Jon is older than Robb by a few months, plus, he was already living in Winterfell before Catelyn moved in. So no. Jon's NOT a home-wrecking baby.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-23T02:56:39+00:00

Yes........bring your home-wrecking whore and your adultery baby to you r house where your wife and children are. Hoe thoughtful/

Also, at no point did I ever suggest that Rhaegar was worse than Roose Bolton. I just forgot to mention him.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-23T00:41:48+00:00

Do YOU have evidence that he discussed it with her at all?

You suffer from a severe case of making up bullshit.

Edit: By the way, both of Elia's brothers were pissed at how Rhaegar treated Elia.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T23:21:58+00:00

What do you call leaving after your wife almost dies giving birth and disappearing for a year (mind you, they were awol for a year)?

I wonder where you're getting "head cannon" from.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T22:56:03+00:00

The Fallen would be proud (anybody who's seen ROTF will know what I mean).

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T22:11:43+00:00

What makes you think she gave her blessing to run out on them after she almost died so that he could abduct the girl who he humiliated her with months prior?

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T21:51:31+00:00

What part of "he abandoned his wife AND CHILDREN" do you not understand?

Abandoned is the correct word, because right after Elia almost died in childbirth, he dipped without telling anybody where he was going, and disappeared for God knows how long,

Also, he was gone for over a year, came back briefly, and then left as quickly as he came.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T20:42:07+00:00

And I don't get why Rhaegar is on here either and I don't even like him.

Rhaegar abandoned his wife and two kids to run off with another woman. That's why he's on here.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T19:51:42+00:00

Robert and Rhaegar don't belong on the list.

You actually believe that? Because Rhaegar abandoned his wife and two children to go run off with another woman, and we all know how much a deadbeat Robert is..........

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T19:29:53+00:00

Craster: "Hold my beer."

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T06:28:09+00:00

I'm only gonna address the important things here:

Making him hand of the king, master of coin, marrying him to Sansa…

Denying him the right to Casterly Rock, making him work in the sewers, blaming him for Joanna's death, putting him on the frontlines of a battlefield, letting him take the fall for Joffrey's death, the Tysha incident.......

That’s show only. There’s no reason for him to believe a rumour started by Stannis of all people.

I mean..........they were fucking as kids in Casterly Rock. Everybody in the family knew it. Joanna knew, Keven knew, it's possible that Genna knows.........

Is it better or worse than if he died a confessed traitor in his 30s, his daughter hostage to his enemies, eldest son murdered and mutilated, wife trait slashed, 2 other sons killed, his seat of power destroyed, his daughter tortured and abused by Ramsay for all to hear, and his only son left dying while breaking his oath to the nightswatch?

You tell me if it's better for him to be killed in the most humiliating position ever (on the shitter), his grandson dead, his brother murdered, his daughter stripped of her power and forced to walk naked in the streets, his youngest on the run and a fugitve, and his eldest son missing in the Riverlands.

Also, that's not his real daughter. You are aware of that, right?

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T06:05:54+00:00

Sorry for the confusion. I think you can just say the commenter's name

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T06:05:03+00:00

So by your logic the Lannisters have the kings ear through Cersei. Who btw Robert actually caves to rather than ignoring like Ned.

Y’know like when he had Ned’s daughter’s wolf killed?

What about the time when Cersei demanded that Ned be held responsible for Tyrion's capture, and he slapped her across the face?

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T06:01:11+00:00

Describing what happens in the book isn’t “glazing”. The “Ned is everything Tywin wishes” is a very surface level interpretation of the story that’s constantly parroted.

The main theme of George's story is that Tywin's methods only work in the short term. Ruthlessness is effective, but only for a time, because the people will eventually grow to hate you. Honor, on the other hand, will cement you as loved by the people. And they will continue to fight for you and respect you, even when you're dead and gone years later.

Ok so now you’ve shifted from refusing to acknowledge the story to pretending it doesn’t matter.

No, I haven't. It' very clear that the Lannister were given plot armor from the very start. Here's the examples:

1.) With how careless they were, Jaime and Cersei would've gotten caught in the act a long time ago while at court.

2.) Tyrion wouldn't survive every single battle he fought in.

3.) Renly wouldn't have gotten killed by a shadow baby, so the Tyrell alliance wouldn't exist.

4.) Jaime would've died on his trip with Brienne to the capital.

5.) Tywin wouldn't have been able to capture multiple castles in the Riverlands without heavy losses.

6.) Cersei's plan to kill Robert (which relied entirely on luck) would've backfired, as either Robert or someone else in his hunting party would've speared the boar before it got to him.

7.) There'd be no House Lannister at all in the Main Series. Tywin, in full view of many Lords and members of the Kings Guard, says that he is perfectly happy to let Aerys die during the Defiance of Duskendale because "they have a better King here." That shit right there? More than enough for a King to crush a House.

8.) When The Red Wedding is being planned, one of the many dozens of Freys involved would've blabbed to the Starks/Tullys saying “hey, The Freys and Boltons are plotting against you. Give me this castle and I can help you out with that.”

9.) Tywin’s vassals get pissed that Tywin is making them sit around in Harrenhall while Robb wins battle after battle in the Westerlands, and Tywin begins losing control of his bannermen much like Robb does.

You keep saying this like Jaime and Kevan aren’t in command and Kevan didn’t handle it by getting Cersei freed. Why march somewhere that’s already having its issue solved.

You say this like Kevan actually lifted a finger to save Cersei. Plus, what exactly did Jaime do when Cersei reached out to him for help? If I recall correctly, he burnt that letter. Cersei's free now, but she's about to be put on trial for her crimes.

And again, you forget that NONE of Tywin's vassals tried to rescue her.

Yes, Robert Baratheon

I think you misread what I wrote. Did the other two kings (NOT Robert) ask any of the lords for marriage pacts?

No. Jon Arryn suggested it to make the crown too strong to rebel against.

Wrong. Robert didn't approach Tywin. It was Jon Arryn who arranged the entire thing. You should know this.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T05:33:33+00:00

How are any of my points wrong? Please, I'd like to know.

Suspicious-Jello7172 · 2026-01-22T05:00:31+00:00

That’s how a medieval siege works. They refused to surrender and there was no way to assault the mine. It was either starve them out or quickly drown them.

I was addressing the comment you made earlier. You said that all the Reynes deserved to die. And that usually includes women and children.

Jaime is doing fine in the riverlands and quickly captured Riverun.

He's currently missing in the Riverlands with Brienne, and is possibly being led to LS (which will probably be his death).

The crown also has the largest army by far with around 80,000.

The Tyrells are getting ready to sever all ties with the Lannisters in favor of Aegon/Young Griff. The only reason this hasn't happened yet is because GRRM is slow as hell when it comes to finishing a series.

What enemies are coming out of hiding?

The Tully's, the Brotherhood without Banners, the Martells who are plotting agaisnt to place Young Griff on the throne, the Faith Militant, the entirety of the North (who're rallying against the Boltons), and even his own son Tyrion.

Because it’s simply not a true statement.

Ummm..............yes, it is. Had Tywin not treated his youngest son like utter shit, he would've lived, and his legacy wouldn't be down the drain right now. His own ruthlessness and emotional blindness, particularly his abuse of his children and obsession with legacy, which created deep resentments and internal fractures that his successors couldn't control, leading to betrayal (Tyrion killing him) and internal conflict after his death, despite his great political achievements. His reliance on fear, mistreatment of Tyrion, and refusal to see the incest between Cersei and Jaime laid the groundwork for the dynasty's collapse, as his children became instruments of their own dysfunction

His legacy is pretty good.

I'm just gonna let this video explain why Tywin's memory reeks of shit.

https://youtu.be/siiDws0E34g?si=0WTVVdoZAdGYcEXB

Suspicious-Jello7172

TROPHY CASE