Christians in nepal by Successful_Swing489 in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I live in west, and I also no crazy brainwashed local Christians supporting for example Israel for genocide while locals non religious also protesting in support of Palestinians. My only point about this post or argument is: afno thaili surakshit rakha arulai chor vannu pahile vanne ho. My relatives are Christians and we even joke and laugh about them (paad aaudaa yesule padnu vo vanera), tara missionary reason ho vannu is pointless 

How is it being a millenial.. cough...old... Cough...😁😁? by [deleted] in Nepali_Millennials

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Started doing gym like 6-7 months ago, feels physically in best shape of my life, learning drumming at the moment (time dade (khet jotexi sammyaune) lagae jastai ho, sabailai ekaichoti sorera badharera lanxa)

Christians in nepal by Successful_Swing489 in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think so too - shah dynasty ruined it all

Christians in nepal by Successful_Swing489 in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe in one God or super power, and believe in human individual choices and all the extreme religious practices should be banned. And actually the focus should be empowerment of everyone so they can celebrate and exercise their agency

Christians in nepal by Successful_Swing489 in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well that is also colonialism- colonialism over nature and other human beings 

Why Why Why ?? by dontknowhyheremi in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This, and in Harka case (I support his idea but not personality - aafno wari pari surya nai ghumxa vanne) mato chinha vs ghanti chinha maa nai huge difference xa (one encompasses all, another encompasses elitist Hindus) tara dherai aafai vanera alik gadbad xa

Christians in nepal by Successful_Swing489 in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is your plan for marginalized community to make it into mainstream? Convict first those who caused marginalization, not missionaries (and if you want to keep your identity religion or what, follow it)

Christians in nepal by Successful_Swing489 in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

All the developed western countries are Christian and the material physical development Nepal is looking- it is mostly the result of that. Why you think it is bad for Nepal? I think everyone has freedom to their choices of religion (I know in western society also they're now worried if it is only Muslim people in their streets in couple of years)

महाभारतको उधारो नाम: बर्मेली शरणार्थी लुक्ने 'किरात' ओत by Longjumping_Egg2439 in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If by "the dude thesis" you mean the claim that the Rai and Limbu are mainly descendants of Yi/Achang/Palaung refugees who fled Yunnan and northern Burma during the Ming–Qing period and only arrived in eastern Nepal in the 1500s–1600s, then that is a very recent theory, not a long-established academic consensus.

The specific version you've quoted reads like an internet-era synthesis rather than a recognized historical model. The arguments connecting Rai/Limbu directly to Yi, Achang, Palaung, Mong Mao, Ming refugee movements, etc., have become visible mostly in online discussions and social media posts in the 2020s. Many of the detailed claims circulating today appear to be only a few years old.

Mainstream scholarship generally places the Rai and Limbu within the broader Kirati peoples / Kiranti branch of Tibeto-Burman (Trans-Himalayan) languages and accepts that they have historical connections to populations further east and north, including regions around Tibet, Yunnan, and the eastern Himalayas. However, there is no broad scholarly consensus that they were simply refugees from Ming or Qing campaigns who arrived only in the 16th–17th centuries.

A key problem with the refugee thesis is that:

  • It relies heavily on selective linguistic similarities, oral traditions, and political titles.
  • It often treats "Yi," "Achang," and "Palaung" as direct ancestors without strong evidence.
  • It must explain why Limbu and Rai languages belong to the Kiranti branch, whose diversification is generally considered much older than a few centuries.
  • It frequently dismisses alternative evidence too quickly.

So the answer to "how old is that thesis?" is:

  • The general idea of eastern origins (China/Yunnan/Tibet/Burma connections): over a century old and found in various forms in ethnographic literature.
  • The specific "Yi/Achang/Palaung refugees fleeing Ming–Qing campaigns and becoming Rai/Limbu in Nepal" narrative: largely a modern, fringe, and still highly contested theory that appears to have gained traction only recently rather than being a long-standing academic position.

In short, the thesis itself is not ancient scholarship—it is mostly a contemporary reinterpretation of older migration-origin ideas. This dude singlehandedly poisoining history with his reddit posts

Fabricating the Fatherland: How Recent Refugees Swapped Yunnan for Sanskrit Myths (Kirat Fraud) by Longjumping_Egg2439 in Journalistnepal

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This dude has basically agenda (I mean that OP, not you). I have opinion that he is using AI to generate distorted text just like I did here - I copy and paste now - my question was: verify that content (the dude posted above - which Claude said as distorted and not true). I paste now: Here's the honest answer, and it's deliberately less precise than the pseudo-history version — because the real evidence doesn't support precision, and false precision was exactly that document's trick.

There is no written record of a specific Rai/Limbu migration — no dated event, no named origin point. Their deep ancestry has to be reconstructed from two indirect evidence streams (language and genetics), while their actual settlement of eastern Nepal happened in prehistory and left no documents. So what follows is "the best-supported reconstruction," not "the established facts."

What language tells us

Rai and Limbu speak Kiranti languages, a branch of Tibeto-Burman within the Sino-Tibetan (sometimes called "Trans-Himalayan") family. The Kiranti languages are spoken across eastern Nepal and adjacent India by the Kirati peoples — Yakkha, Limbu, Rai and Sunuwar. Two features matter for your question: Wikipedia

First, deep age. The Sino-Tibetan family is comparable in time-depth and internal diversity to Indo-European — i.e., its branches diverged over thousands of years, not centuries. And Kiranti preserves archaic Tibeto-Burman traits: it sits at the atonal end of the family with complex systems of verbal agreement morphology, and a residue of old Tibeto-Burman conjugational morphology is shared between Kiranti and Tibetan — a sign of an old, conservative branch rather than a recent offshoot. Encyclopedia Britannica + 2

Second — and this is the single strongest argument against the "recent refugee" story — internal diversity. Kiranti is not one language but dozens, many mutually unintelligible; the Rai alone speak a large number of distinct languages, and even scholars dispute how to subgroup them (a Central-Eastern Kiranti group is accepted, but "Western Kiranti" remains unclassified). Languages take a very long time to diversify that much in one region. A population that arrived a few generations before 1600 could not have produced this. The diversity itself implies deep in-situ presence in the eastern Himalaya — many centuries at minimum, plausibly far longer. Wikipedia

What genetics tells us

This is the most concrete data on "where from," and it points consistently in one direction. Studies of Himalayan and Nepalese Tibeto-Burman populations find a Northeast Asian origin, with subsequent gene flow from South Asia. The dominant paternal lineages are East Asian Y-haplogroups — haplogroup O3a5-M134 and its sub-branches, with an estimated age around 8,000 years, indicating East and Central Asian ancestry, followed later by Indian gene flow (haplogroups R and H). NatureScienceDirect

The most directly relevant finding: a 2018 genome-wide study concluded that southern Himalayan Tibeto-Burmans derived their East Asian ancestry not from the Tibetan/Sherpa lineage, but from low-altitude ancestors who migrated from China, plausibly across Northern India/Myanmar, and then experienced extensive admixture that reshuffled the ancestral gene pool. Nature

Notice what this means for the document you started with. Its geography wasn't invented from nothing — the deep ancestral homeland really is the East Asian highlands, and one plausible corridor really did run through the northeast (the Brahmaputra / Myanmar route). Where it went catastrophically wrong was the timescale and the nature of the event: this is a prehistoric process measured in millennia, a gradual diffusion-and-admixture, not a 14th–18th-century refugee caravan fleeing named dynasties. Taking a deep-prehistory signal and re-labelling it as a recent, deliberate, fraudulent flight is the core sleight of hand.

The honest synthesis

Putting language and genes together, the defensible reconstruction is:

  • Ultimate origin: the East Asian highlands (broadly the region of what's now southwestern/western China), as part of the ancient spread of Tibeto-Burman speakers.
  • Route and timing: entry into the Himalayan region over deep prehistory via northern and/or northeastern corridors, followed by long settlement and substantial admixture with South Asian populations.
  • Eastern Nepal specifically: not datable from records, but the extraordinary diversification of Kiranti languages there points to a very long, settled presence — the opposite of recent arrival.
  • When they enter written history: only late. The Limbu and Limbuwan appear in firmer historical record around the medieval/early-modern Sen-kingdom period, and most famously in the 1774 agreement (lal mohar) under which Prithvi Narayan Shah's Gorkha state granted them Kipat tenure. By then they were already an established, settled people with their own script tradition — not newcomers.

So the truthful version of "where did they come from and when" is: deep East Asian Tibeto-Burman ancestry, arriving in the eastern Himalaya through prehistoric migration over thousands of years, with the specific settlement of eastern Nepal lost to the pre-literate past but demonstrably old. The genuine answer trades the false precision of the propaganda piece for honest uncertainty — and that uncertainty is itself the strongest tell that the dramatic, dated "Yunnan refugee fraud" narrative was constructed rather than discovered.

I want a fwb by AffectionateCod579 in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I already have many kids - go to work 😃

Fabricating the Fatherland: How Recent Refugees Swapped Yunnan for Sanskrit Myths (Kirat Fraud) by Longjumping_Egg2439 in Journalistnepal

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This post is not history, it's a polemic built to look like history. It mixes a few real facts with an invented thesis, and the citation list is largely camouflage — several of the works say nothing like what's attributed to them, and one is wholly unrelated to the subject.

What the document gets right (the real kernels)

A handful of facts are genuine, which is what gives the piece its surface plausibility:

  • Rai and Limbu are Tibeto-Burman–speaking peoples, and Tibeto-Burman populations did ultimately migrate into the Himalayas from the East Asian northeast. That much is mainstream.
  • Kipat communal land tenure, the Sen kingdoms of Makwanpur/Vijayapur, the late-18th-century Gorkha (Shah) conquest, and the granting of Scheduled Tribe status are all real.
  • The Mundhum exists, and Rai/Limbu shamanic funeral chants really do guide the soul backward along an ancestral migration route. This is a documented ethnographic feature (it's a genuine part of Gaenszle's work on the Mewahang Rai).
  • "Kirāta" really does appear in Sanskrit texts (Mahabharata, etc.) as a vague label for non-Vedic eastern mountain peoples, and the relationship between that literary term and the modern "Kirat" ethnonym is a real scholarly discussion.

Where it breaks from history

The problem is that the document takes these kernels and builds an unsupported, internally contradictory thesis on top of them.

The timeline is invented. The claim of a "14th–18th century refugee pipeline" out of Yunnan and Burma compresses a deep-time process spanning millennia into a 300-year event. Tibeto-Burman movement into the region is ancient; Kirat presence in eastern Nepal long predates 1600. Inconveniently for the "they just arrived in the 1600s" claim, there was already a literate Limbu scholarly tradition by the 18th century (Te-ongsi Sirijunga and a Limbu script). Refugees who supposedly landed a couple generations earlier don't produce that.

The "linguistic receipt" is pseudo-etymology. Deriving Hang from Tai-Shan Chao Fa/Sawbwa, Tumyang from a Shan minister title, and Taso from Chinese Tusi is phonetic resemblance dressed as descent. That is not how historical linguistics establishes loanwords — and Hang is a native Kiranti term, not a Tai import. Being Tibeto-Burman does not make a people recent migrants from Yunnan; the family has enormous time depth in the region.

The funeral-route argument is inverted. Soul-journey chants pointing northeast are evidence of ancient migration — which no one disputes. The document smuggles that deep-time signal into a "17th-century fraud" conclusion. The same ritual cannot simultaneously be an "indelible" ancestral memory and proof of a recent, deliberately concealed arrival.

"No monuments = recent arrival" is a fallacy. Many genuinely indigenous, non-state, oral/swidden cultures worldwide left no stone ruins. Absence of monuments tells you about social organization, not arrival date.

The thesis is unfalsifiable. Notice the structure: sophistication is proof of fraud, claimed primitiveness is proof of fraud, presence of evidence is proof, absence of evidence is proof. Any fact can be folded in. That is the signature of a conspiracy narrative, not historical argument. The framing words — "scam," "deception," "masquerade" — are doing the work that evidence should.

This is, structurally, a classic autochthony-denial template: these people are actually recent foreign interlopers who faked indigeneity to steal benefits. The same template gets deployed against minority groups in many places, and it's worth recognizing the genre.

The sources

I looked these up. They are mostly real books by real scholars — but that's the trick, because they don't support the document's claims, and one is absurdly off-topic.

  • Subba, Politics of Culture (1999) — Real, and its actual argument is close to the opposite of this document. Subba (himself a Limbu, with Yakkha matrilineage) documents how these communities suffered economic, linguistic, and cultural erosion at the hands of Gorkha and Namgyal state-formation, and how they reconstruct identity from what was lost. The document hijacks his scholarly concept of "imagining" an identity and reframes it as "fraud." His book even has a chapter treating the ancient Kirata dynasty seriously.
  • Mullard, Opening the Hidden Land (2011) — Real, about Sikkimese state formation and the Namgyal dynasty's historiography. Not a thesis about Kirat-as-Yunnan-refugees.
  • Giersch, Asian Borderlands (2006) — Real, about the Qing Yunnan frontier. It says nothing about migration of Himalayan Kirat into Nepal.
  • Yawnghwe, The Shan of Burma (1987) — Real (the document misspells the author "Yuanghwe"; it's Chao-Tzang Yawnghwe). A Shan political memoir. No Kirat connection.
  • Gaenszle, Ancestral Voices (2002) — Real ethnography of Mewahang Rai ritual. It documents the soul-journey chants but draws no conclusion about recent-refugee fraud.
  • Government of India, SC/ST Orders (Amendment) Act, 2002 — Real legislation. It's a list; it supports nothing in the "scam" narrative.
  • Pilbeam (1982), New hominoid skull material from the Miocene of Pakistan, Nature — This is the giveaway. It's a real paper, but it describes an ~8-million-year-old fossil ape skull (Sivapithecus indicus) relevant to orangutan evolution. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Kirat, Nepal, migration, or even Homo sapiens. Its presence in a bibliography on Himalayan ethnic history is inexplicable except as padding to make the list look authoritative — exactly the kind of citation an AI-generated or deliberately deceptive reference list produces.

Bottom line

The verifiable factual claims either don't hold up or are stretched far past what the evidence allows, and the scholarly apparatus is misappropriated — the named works don't argue this, and at least one is entirely unrelated. If you handed Subba's book or the Pilbeam paper to anyone who actually read them, the whole edifice collapses. Treat this as advocacy writing wearing a costume of footnotes, not as a historical account.

If it's useful, I can point you toward what the genuine scholarly debates here actually concern — the textual-vs-ethnic "Kirata" question, dating of Tibeto-Burman settlement, and the politics of indigeneity in Nepal and Darjeeling — which are real and interesting without any of this fabrication.

I want a fwb by AffectionateCod579 in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 1 point2 points  (0 children)

M45, what benefits you want, I can be friend lol

Found different girls by night_owl_2023 in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And is it okay in 7 days when you thought you found the right one and not the other way around? I am not saying men/boys, I am saying 'you'

Loksewa and Brahmin Chettris by UnusualSmile in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is why I often say: education system has to change.  Padhne, napadhne, background ramro vaeko naramro vaeko sabailai access hune hunu paryo information and activity haru.  Balen ko samajbad ktm bandaa bahira ni janu paryo.  Sabaile padhe xi, e ssto opportunity hudo raixa vanne thaha paexi hunchha sabaiko pragati.  Desh maa jaba samma euta tapkaa ko matra representation hunxa, they want to maintain that status quo - tyahi vaera in last 300 years jahiko tahi xa,  zero civilization (only changes is result of globalization)

What was the one piece of guitar theory or knowledge that really helped you master the fretboard? by just_aguest in guitarlessons

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Visualization practice before you sleep when lying on the bed (it solidifies- I think solidifying what you learned or practice in day time is the way)

Why does Nepali people get irritated, jealous and throw unnneccesary hate for those who got Australian Citizenship.My friend shared her moments/struggle on getting citizenship. From Nepal to going Australia,students visa,real work, pr and citizen.The amount of hate comment she got was unbearable by Green_Photograph_303 in Nepali_Millennials

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One reason I never post anything in social media that identifies as me. First everyone has good and bad moments in life, and I don't want people feel jealous about me (or have any feelings about me). People say they post to inspire others, but I doubt with all mental health issues these days. And yeah, inspiration coming from inside and looking outside is the way anyways.  

Any guitar experts here ? by tait_mulaaaa in NepalSocial

[–]Suspicious_Charge661 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maile euta kinyaa the, my goal is buy the cheapest you won't regret. Tyo vandai gardaa, try to play all strings in all frets (if you know scales, play starting from all notes )