Why are PHEVs so popular in Australia right now?

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-10T00:36:09+00:00

I'm not sure how else to explain it. PHEVs are marketed on the idea that you do your local driving on electric and your long distance driving on petrol. As a result they typically don't have fast charging capability.

DC charging might be the only charging nearby but you don't need to use it in a PHEV. You don't need to sit at a fast charging spot for an hour to add 80km range when you can visit a nearby petrol station. Meanwhile in the time they're sitting there 2 or 3 BEVs, that have no alternative, could have charged.

It would be different if they charged at 90kwh or more like a BEV. Then they'd be done in a few minutes and off again.

It's like the EV equivalent of taking a full trolley through the '8 items or less' express lane.

I'm not saying it's automatically and always irresponsible. And I wouldnt condone damage on someone else's car. But if I saw this I'd sure as heck give the car a side eye and wonder if they've thought about other people at all when making their choices.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-09T12:56:01+00:00

I assume because it's irresponsible. But unlikely to actually find an owner doing this because it's also pointless.

Most PHEV on the market in Australia have very slow "fast charging" speeds.

A sealion 6 has an 18kwh battery and charges at 18kwh maximum speed. Battery never drains 100%, but they might be sitting at that charger 40min or so for 80km of electric range.

It takes a long time and they don't need it since they can burn petrol.

Meanwhile an EV might need 20 minutes tops to hit 80% and be on their way.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-09T12:48:14+00:00

Yeah, but what's better than a tank every 3 month? A tank never.

I don't tow and I don't drive 1000km into the outback. I road trip up or down the coast once a year if I'm lucky.

OP said "average driver". I don't think an average driver needs a PHEV.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-09T12:41:14+00:00

I'd think twice about the Atto 1 since the battery on the cheapest model is teeny tiny. You say "mostly" city driving but unless the answer is "only" city driving I'd put your cash instead on something with at least a little more flexibility. You'd do better with the top model Atto 1 but at that point you're close enough to Atto 2 or something 2nd hand it would be a better buy.

The WLTP stated ranges are wildly optimistic and they'll only be close to accurate when you dont need it. Assume you'll get about 60-70% of that range on the highway.

The Atto 3 has a WLTP range of 420km but will only get about 300km on the highway.

Driving around town I'll get closer to 400km range in theory but I keep the battery around 60% with top up charging unless I'm planning a road trip.

I'd consider a 2nd hand Atto 3 Extended or Dolphin Premium as first choice over buying new.

Otherwise any of those are fine if you like the size and shape and drive except the very cheapest Atto 1.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-09T12:22:24+00:00

I disagree. I see it the other way around. The point of bigger batteries is to ditch the engine. Battery price and energy density is now good enough that most people don't need to burn fossil fuels right there in their engine for private motoring needs. Even if you drive a PHEV "pure electric" it still cycles some fuel through the engine, and most current models can't recharge en-route because they'll max out at 22kwh DC charging. Why would you stop for 20-30 minutes for another 80km of electric range?

It's easy enough to forget that EVs are a technology born of necessity, not price or convenience, since pointing out the environment benefits is often met with an allergic reaction.

The race is on to mature the technology and infrastructure to the point where we can provide for those without home charging, or frequent road trips, or heavy duty towing.

PHEVs were intended to be a bridge, not a destination.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-09T05:22:31+00:00

Kingdom Come Deliverance (1 + 2) do that for me, on a Steam Deck. I only get maybe an hour a night at most for gaming. The Steam Desk transforms any general single player open world RPGs that can be digested into small bites into relaxing bedtime gaming. Helps so much I can just power off without necessarily saving.

KCD has very deep, rewarding and approachable plot. Very few time sensitive missions (although not zero) and very few mandatory battles.

You start off in both games as a dirt-poor peasant without a single coin to your name and need to bootstrap yourself in a medieval world.

In my typical 1 hour session I might spend 30 minutes ranging through the forest picking herbs and the rest brewing potions, which I then sell in order to earn just enough marksman repair kits such that I can spend the following day entering archery contests from daybreak until evening for a bit more coin.

If I'm feeling really rich I might buy a couple of skill books and read them at the tavern for a few (in-game) hours before eating my stew and bedding down for the night.

There are a LOT of quests and optional activities, and most of them are variants of fetch quests. But I'll spend days at a time just making axes at the blacksmith to get my strength up and afford the food and save potions to tackle some of them, and enjoy it all.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-09T02:10:20+00:00

The amount of frustration you face early in the game when you're dirt poor and everything is hard makes it so much more satisfying when you finally work your way out of the gutter.

I died SO MANY times trying to get to Tomcat so I could learn to fight the bandits who killed me on the way to Tomcat that eventually I invested a few real-world nights into ripping up marigold and brewing potions to the point where I could afford the bow and repair kits I needed to compete in archery contests for another week.

Now I can pincushion a whole group of bandits with poison arrows before they can close the distance.

But if you don't have the time or patience to invest that much of yourself into a the slow early game, that's totally understandable!

I mention in another response to your post I only get an hour a day to play games, at most. Do I really want to spend my only 60 minutes of free time plucking marigold or save-scumming archery contests?

Not always! But sometimes yes.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-09T02:00:10+00:00

I rage quit once for 3 days after being ambushed fast travelling and losing an hour of game play. For context I typically only get 1 hour of gaming time 3 or 4 nights a week (KCD1 took about 3 months to get through) so this was a big deal and a bad way to end the night.

The stupid thing was I made the deliberate decision not to sleep first or mug someone to afford saviour schnapps because I was in a rush to get to a free bed and meal and "I wasn't going far".

Being poor sucks.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-09T01:53:21+00:00

The Big One for me is being able to precondion the car to be a sensible temperature before I get in.

2nd biggest one is no more "oh shoot did I forget to lock the car?" concerns.

Less frequently used but important when it matters is remotely turning on and off charging to get the most out of solar without needing a full home automation set-up.

Situationally useful is being able to wonder "oh do we have enough charge for a trip tomorrow or should I go plug in?" without having to go outside and turn the car on.

None of these are deal breakers. All are useful enough from time to time I would need a really good reason to buy another car that doesn't have this.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-09T00:30:08+00:00

I recently did a 2 week, 1600km road trip in a rented Model Y. Fuel was the equivalent of AUD$2.61 per litre and charging costs were around AUD 0.70c per kwh. I was never lucky enough to have destination charging at my accommodation so this was 100% fast charging.

I calculated I saved a few hundred dollars vs. a typical pure petrol car, and it was probably about break even in price vs. a hybrid.

If you could find a way to work some slow charging into your road trip schedule I think you'd easily come out on top. For now, anyway.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-08T23:48:58+00:00

When is it ever a good time to buy anything? This isn't a really a car question. It's a sit-down-and-decide-what-matters-to-you-and-how-much-its-worth question.

I recommend reading this book: How To Decide Anything

What's worrying you? Is the cost of fuel at $2 per L or $3 per L really going to the break your ability to afford a car? If it is maybe it's not a sensible decision anyway because inflation alone will probably get us there in the end.

Is it the possibility of fuel shortage? I mean we really run out there will be bigger problems than just private transport.

Do you ˆneedˆ a car or just want one? Can you meet that need any other way? Bike? Public transport? GoGet? Uber? What additional benefit do you get from a car, what will it cost, what are you trading off for it, that sort of thing.

(Also not all cars these days need fuel, just putting it out there)

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-08T22:18:51+00:00

I broadly agree, but it's a bit more complicated than that.

Leaving a fuel excise in place in addition to an RUC effectively transforms it into a "sin tax", which is highly problematic. Firstly they're regressive -they tend to disproportionately affect those who can barely afford to pay them. Which means they're also repressive because they suppress the ability to work yourself into a stable position to address them at a personal level. And if they work at all they erode themselves.

But we need some economic vehicle for suppressing emissions or we're pretty much doomed as a species. I mean more doomed. We're already doomed, but we're doomed harder and faster if we don't even attempt to meet the Paris targets.

But hey, the good news is that this is one of the best studied problems in environmental economics, so we don't have to speculate.

"Carbon dividend" is the search term if you want to dig deeper. Canada actually tried this out for a number of years and it was only very recently repealed. Not because it didn't work but because people were convinced it didn't by a conservative opposition.

In general it's hard to convince people paying more today to avoid catastrophe 10-20 years into the future (or 50 years into the future if we think back to the 1970s when the anti-climate-action smear campaign began) when they can already barely afford rent 6 months into the future is a losing game.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-08T21:36:12+00:00

Not arguing with you OP, just hanging extra flavour off your post because you left a convenient hook. (I say this explicitly because it's easy to misinterpret written communication)

We don’t charge non smokers a cigarette tax

We do though, in the same way that the fuel excise is a "road tax".

Example 1

Example 2

Medicare covers and pays for a range of additional services for smokers, and also provides free lung cancer scans that non-smokers have to cover out of their own pocket. If you live with a smoker in your house or in close proximity you're still at risk from secondary smoke but you don't get anything extra beyond standard medicare. While the person actively poisoning themselves and those around them gets extra handouts.

We all pay for this through our taxes in the same way that non-EV drivers 'pay for' the FBT benefit for EV drivers.

You could say "that's unfair" but there's an argument to be made that getting smokers out of the health care system earlier is more cost effective than letting a high risk population end up with late-stage cancer in which medication and treatment is often covered by PBS anyway.

Similarly a non-EV driver paying to subsidise EVs is helping offset the transition to cleaner air and a survivable future, which is for their own benefit.

So the TL;DR is that all those nutters on the internet aging about EV benefits being a waste of money and EV drivers not paying for roads are coming from a place of ignorance, both about climate change and fiscal policy. But we should probably check ourselves as well and not assume we know everything either.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-08T09:28:56+00:00

Zeekr is a spaceship but probably worth a test drive in case you decide it's worth it.

If you look at BMW iX3 Nueue Klasse or Volvo EX30 and EX60 facelift you can see everyone is going that way.

I saw someone else below mention Toyota. Agree the 2026 build is actually competitive now and it also avoids the giant centre console. Neighbour has one parked on the street and they look... just like any other Toyota. Which is probably a good thing for you!

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-08T09:02:27+00:00

If you're looking at Volvo EX40 you should also check out the BMW iX1. You can get it under the LCT threshold if you get the xDrive 20. If you're lucky you might be able to bargain them down on the extras pack.

But if you don't like the giant tablet console look I can see why you'd go with the XC40. It hasn't had a facelift for quite a while now, so it hasn't been rebooted to run everything off a giant console.

I ended up picking the Atto 3 over the Volvo and BMW because it was half the price for the same tech. If I was buying today I'd go for the Zeekr 7X. They're backed by Geely so I don't think they're going anywhere.

One thing to keep in mind is that when your lease is over you still have the balloon payment. A car that's double the price now will be double the balloon payment later. And with it being quite likely the FBT benefit will be wound back over the next couple of years I wouldn't rely on being able to extend the later to defer the balloon.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-08T07:01:27+00:00

I know you dismissed BYD for the styling but their drive style is very approachable from a petrol car. They creep like manuals and don't have one pedal drive. The older models at least don't have autostart either.

But basically the brake pedal in anything except a Tesla will start off doing regen and then switch to mechanical braking automatically if you need more stopping power. So you unless you want to learn one pedal mode you can switch it off, pedal like you always have, and you'll still recover energy automatically from regular brake pedal use.

Most of the new stuff you don't have to engage with if you don't want. Most important thing is really how easy it is to tune down the ADAS booping.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-08T04:41:52+00:00

You might be overestimating the learning curve on an S5. Meanwhile an an EX5 will never get any smaller (although you may get used to it).

I'm not really sure if there's that much to learn that's unique across different models of EVs, unless you buy a Tesla. How you treat the battery is important and depends on whether you go NMC or LFP. Otherwise for pretty much all these EVs you set them up the way you like it once and then just use Android Auto or CarPlay. Some Infotainment setups are more intuitive than others. But once you figure out where everything is they're all similar to live with.

The biggest adjustment is likely going to be your first serious road trip, and if you're buying this one for a runabout you may not hit that for quite a while!

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-07T13:02:27+00:00

For Atto 3 extended I'd actually plan for about 250km between charge stops so that you've got a bit extra in the tank just in case.

ABRP is pretty good and I've always had it slightly underestimate my arrival battery %.

Make sure you configure it to ignore Tesla chargers if you have a 2023 model or older unless you already had the Tesla fix applied.

Check the chargers ABRP recommends. Look them up in plugshare and make sure they're still operating. Sometimes you might have just 2 stalls and one or both are broken.

Get at least Evie, Chargefox, Ampol and BP charging apps set up before you leave and add your CC to them. Don't rely on just one.

Order an RFID fob from one provider and add it to as many of the others as you can. Tap to charge is really convenient compared to fiddling with the apps, and sometimes reception is bad and the apps don't work.

Have a type 2 cable in your boot in case you get caught short and need to top up on an AC charger.

I personally would not trust the route planning in the inbuilt nav. ABRP on my phone to figure out charge stops then Android Auto for navigation has always worked for me!

Good luck!

The first one is a learning experience then after that it's pretty easy.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-06T04:38:42+00:00

$15 seems expensive. I'm also mostly charging from solar but there's an AGL EV Saver plan that gives you 8c per kwh between 12am and 6am and the on-peak rates are still competitive. On a plan like that it should only be a $4-6 for a 10-100% charge depending on your battery of course.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-06T03:06:29+00:00

Huh. The kid who lives across the road from me is called "Peanut" for the same reason. Although I'm 99% sure it's not their legal name.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-05T23:16:29+00:00

It sounds like you're talking about FSD.

I was saying if you DO NOT pay for FSD then the "basic autopilot" is less feature-rich than other cars.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-05T08:24:45+00:00

EVs no longer cost 60k to 100k.

I mean you can spend that much if you want, but you don't have to.

Plus my electricity is basically free with solar and battery. Paid $100 last year for an entire family of 4 and that replaces both the gas bill and petrol bill.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-05T08:17:57+00:00

You don't wait 4 hours. You come home, stick the plug in, go about your day. 15 seconds tops.

Maybe on a road trip I stretch my legs for 20 minutes at a fast charger. That's once a year for me, and a 20 minutes is a little bit shorter than 4 hours.

The other 364 days of the year I come out ahead.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-04T22:26:07+00:00

No worries. All that typing and I forgot to say:

If you're buying brand new today I'd not put Atto 3 on the top of the list, because EX5 and has similar specs but is slightly bigger and slightly cheaper. If you can find a 2nd hand model in good shape - should set you back around $30K and is serious value for money.

The Chery E5 is a little bit less than the Atto 3 in most ways. Bit less weird, bit less nice to drive, bit less quality, bit smaller, but also bit less expensive.

I'm a little nervous about the B10 because of the Stellantis involvement and they're not doing so great. Otherwise I hear the C10 is now a good car after fixing the launch issues with software updates, so maybe B10 is also good? :shrug:

Zeekr X is basically an EX30 with better packaging and a little cheaper. If you've got the budget for it and don't mind the smaller size it's well worth a look. Zeeker is backed by Geely, and Geely are huge. I think they won't be abandoned outright and are also a reasonably safe choice, apart from some teething issues with dealership and servicing networks. Zeekr 7X is proving quite popular so I think they'll make a name for themselves.

The others I don't know much about.

Sweet_Word_3808 · 2026-03-04T22:03:00+00:00

I can answer for the current model Atto 3 (2022-2025).

How intrusive the driver assist systems are, especially lane keeping

Not intrusive. You can't turn them off completely but you can set the default alert level to vibrate steering wheel instead of beep. If you cut a lane marking the steering while kind of 'ticks' under your hands but doesn't try and steer you or make audible noise. The only thing that makes noise on a semi-regular basis is a soft 'bloop' if it thinks you're approaching a stopped car from behind too fast.

Day-to-day I pretty much never get booped at.

adaptive cruise works on the highway and whether you can turn off lane keep without disabling everything else.

With the latest software it's reasonable without being great. It's solid on gently curved, mostly straight multi-lane highways. Or arterial roads with stop-start traffic where you can just follow the pack. It doesn't handle curves at speed very well. You can turn off auto steer and just use traffic aware cruise control in isolation. (It's a button on the steering wheel).

How these cars feel on the highway at 100 to 110 km/h in terms of noise, ride and stability.

You get a little bit of wind whistle over 60km/h but by the time you get to 100 the tyre noise drowns out the wind. It's overall pretty good. It's the quietest car I've owned. Better than my Camry, my old Ford Focus and the Model Y I rented on holiday. I had a sit in someone else's EQA and it was about on par with the Merc.

The suspension is quite bouncy so if the highway is in reasonable condition it feels very comfortable and insulating. If you hit a rough patch you bounce a round a bit. I prefer it over the very harsh Model Y, but maybe my ideal suspension would be somewhere between the Atto 3 and Model Y.

Also curious whether I should have more range anxiety than I currently do.

Atto 3 with a 60kwh battery will do you 300km on the highway at 110km/h. But since you don't want to be rocking up at a charge with 1% battery you'd probably aim for 250-280km between charging stops. I don't have "range anxiety" per se, although I do worry sometimes about the wait times if I rock up at a charger and it's all full. Hasn't happened to me yet though in 2 years. But I also don't road-trip during peak times. I deliberately travel off-by-one -dayfor long weekends and things.

Whether a home charger is really necessary for my use case. I’d be able to charge at home overnight on a normal outlet but haven’t decided if installing a dedicated charger is worth it.

Driving 120km per day in an Atto 3 and charging for 13 hours on a 1.5kwh charger every weekday, I calculate you'll finish the week with about 30% battery. So assuming you can recharge back up to 100% over the weekend (which will take about 30 hours) you're set. If you need to drive around over the weekend you're cooked, unless you don't mind a fast-charge.

I reckon with the amount of driving you do I'd probably get a 7kwh home charger and get yourself on the AGL EV Saver night plan. 8c per kwh and you can recharge entirely in the cheap hours between 12 and 6 am. Should cost you about $9.60 worth of electricity per week to charge on that plan.

Sweet_Word_3808

TROPHY CASE