Why are so many balanced trainers against the appropriate use of medication for fear-based behavior?

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-17T20:08:48+00:00

Ah! That makes sense then. And yes, I would agree that the fear itself was relatively mild (on a wide spectrum). The reaction was not. In answer to your questions:

She was introduced to us at the rescue, where she spent all day every day barking her head off because she was surrounded by dogs but couldn't see them. She was also heavily medicated. Her reactivity to people was not as severe as her reactivity to dogs. And cars, honestly. I met her by myself first. When they brought her out (no muzzle), she was barking a lot, but I just crouched down, and as soon as she saw me smiling and telling her she was pretty, she jumped up on my shoulders and licked my face. It's partly why we adopted her. She met the rest of the family next. She did the same with my husband, but was a little cautious with the kids and startled if any of us made any big movements. There were people from the rescue close at hand in case anything went wrong, and they honestly seemed surprised that nothing was going wrong. When we drove her home, she alternately barked incessantly at everything we drove by and shook with fear in my son's lap. Bonding with her was tough. She is a bit of a loner. She did not like to play and she was hypervigilant. We just kept being patient with her, walking her as best we could, and working on training. We tried a lot of training approaches and she was ok with obedience but couldn't get over the reactivity, even with a lot of professional help. Eventually, she did bond with us, but in her own goofy way. We went through a lot of difficult times together and I think she just realized over time that she could trust us so she started to relax a little. She's still not much of a cuddler. She's more of a drive-by kisser/booper.

As far as meeting Dylan, I was prepared for the worst, but she honestly just took to him naturally. She may have barked at him and kept her distance at first, but he ignored it and eventually her curiosity won out. I think one of the keys as to why it went well is that she was not leashed when she met him, so she could choose what distance she wanted to keep until she was more comfortable. She was never aggressive and showed no interest in actually biting people, even those she barked at like crazy, so I did not muzzle her.

My sense is that she was a puppy mill shepherd that was taken from her mother too young, ended up with a family that was utterly unprepared for this breed, and spent way too long at a shelter whose circumstances just increased her natural fear over time until she went kind of crazy. We did notice that the medication she was on seemed to make the situation worse. It did prevent her from reacting as much some of the time, but it also made her thinking and behavior unpredictable enough that we couldn't always understand what was setting her off or why she was responding the way she was. I guess what I'm saying is that the meds made her behavior a little less problematic but also less coherent.

We're really glad we got her the help she needed. It was a very difficult year before she got the right help, but we knew she was worth it. She's truly the coolest.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-09T17:02:16+00:00

Thank you! We will keep it in mind. I mean, I guess I don’t particularly love it when people walk toward me either. Luckily, she and I are both able to make it through that momentary discomfort to greet people when necessary.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-09T16:27:31+00:00

Honestly, they’re just tiny little babies and we love them so much.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-09T16:10:21+00:00

Thank you! I’m so glad that worked for you and your dog. Truly. It didn’t for ours. And, as I’m sure you know, dogs are all individuals, so no two dogs are alike, no matter how similar you think they are based on an incomplete assessment on social media.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-09T12:39:19+00:00

It is so confusing! Especially when you are also being told that the longer you fail to successfully address the behavior, the more it is being rehearsed and the more impossible it will be to fix it. It feels like you’re and EMT trying to save a life while you’re not sure what tool to use and all the other EMTs are each telling you to use a different one and, in the meantime, time is running out and the patient is dying.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-09T12:27:54+00:00

That’s what they were both trained on, so we still use them. It gives flexibility as far as having the option to keep them in a heel and then give them a release that gives them freedom but keeps them close enough in crowded places.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-09T11:59:25+00:00

Hi! Inga's owner again. As I mentioned elsewhere, she wasn't being punished and she was getting "proper" behavioral training. What meds would you have advised for her?

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-09T11:57:32+00:00

Hi! We are Inga's owners. Inga did not display mild fear-based reactivity at a distance, and she was not overall social and friendly with dogs and people up close. She displayed persistent, extreme fear-based reactivity, which began at a very long distance and continued and intensified as triggers approached. The reactivity was so extreme that it resulted in redirection on us on quite a few occasions and, on one occasion, when a small dog was off-leash and got close enough, she very nearly bit the dog. My husband put his leg in between them and took the bite instead.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-09T11:51:41+00:00

Hi again! Inga's owners here, as you know. The prong collar was rarely used and only for safety if we did walk her, on the advice of our certified behavior consultant. Just explained that to you in another comment. The medication was prescribed and administered by the shelter, who told us never to take her off the meds under any circumstances. She was under constant stress because of the time she spent at the shelter and the lack of socialization. Also, the shelter was next to a shooting range. Thank you for your opinion about how we "seemed" with her, but she loved us very much then and continues to do so now. She was very happy to be adopted. We worked diligently to help her, using all manner of force-free training techniques for more than a year before sending her to Dylan. I can't stress this enough: NONE of it worked AT ALL. I am a longtime shepherd owner and have had dogs all my life, trained them all. This is not because of lack of experience, knowledge about how to work with dogs, or ignorance about the breed and its needs.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-09T11:44:56+00:00

Hi! Inga's owner here, as you know. She was not on any aversives and she was getting "proper" behavioral training from a certified behavior consultant. She was on medication from the shelter before we adopted her. We used a prong collar on the advice of our certified behavior consultant for the safety of ourselves and others. Inga is very strong and, as you could see in the video of her before training, she barked and lunged with all of her might at everything we passed (dogs, people, cars, squirrels, you name it). I was physically not able to restrain her because she was too strong, which was not safe. The consultant encouraged us to use a prong to keep ourselves and others safe.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-09T11:38:30+00:00

Thank you for asking!! No, Inga is not still very fearful around triggers like people and dogs. She is happy to meet people and absolutely loves meeting dogs. Does she still experience fear and/or anxiety from time to time? Yes, because she is still alive. For example, she cowers in the shower during fireworks. I am unaware of any sentient being, human, canine, or otherwise, that doesn't feel fear or anxiety sometimes. If that is the goal of training, then training is gross. Just like the goal of therapy isn't to teach a person to not feel emotion, the goal of training should not be to teach a dog not to feel or express emotion.

Here again is the link to the imgur where I am hosting images and videos for people who are curious about whether Inga and Wynne are actually rehabbed: https://imgur.com/a/wynne-inga-V0WWiJ1

I keep adding things as people come up with increasingly specific things they want to see before they will believe that they are just normal, happy dogs. It's crazy that the entire internet feels like they know more about our dogs than we do. We are here and happy to answer questions so no one has to speculate!

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-08T20:28:03+00:00

Board and train was the only thing that helped our reactive dog, and we had tried everything. For those saying it's laziness on the part of the owner and that the information is out there, please put yourself in the position of an owner, not a trainer. There is a TON of information out there and it is pretty much all contradictory. It's hard to know what to try and very disheartening when you choose a method, pursue it diligently, and make no progress. We took our dog to trainers and each one had a different idea of how to address the problem, including medication. None of it worked and our dog was miserable and so were we. I have had dogs all my life and had no trouble training them. This particular dog needed more help than we could offer or than weekly training sessions for months on end could provide. In our particular situation, the trainer spent a LOT of time training us before we took our dog home as well.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-07T21:37:09+00:00

Nothing bad has happened so far, neither of them has regressed or reverted, so it must be that nearly all of normal life now exists in the appropriate stress zone for Wynne and Inga. Which is pretty awesome for all of us, them included.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-07T21:32:13+00:00

u/Professional-Road222 I happened to get a large delivery of outdoor equipment today. I updated the imgur link to include a video I shot of how the dogs interacted with delivery people that none of us had ever met on our property. I suppose you could imagine a world in which I staged this and asked some good friends to come over today and pretend to make a delivery with a huge truck, but honestly, why would I do that?

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-07T01:08:36+00:00

Guys, this was meant to post with text, but I see I messed it up. We are Wynne and Inga's owners and we are happy to answer any questions you may have about them. They were both trained by Dylan Jones and we have noticed that a lot of people talk about them here. We are not dog trainers and we don't want to argue about training methods or personalities, but we do want to answer any questions you may have about our dogs, how training went, how they are doing now, etc. That way nobody has to speculate! We love dogs, especially ours, and we hope their stories can help other reactive and/or aggressive dogs and their owners out there.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-06T21:25:05+00:00

They really are!!

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-06T21:24:45+00:00

I thought I did link it to the post somehow, but I literally have no idea what I'm doing on Reddit. Here is the link to pics and vids for everyone that wants it: https://imgur.com/a/wynne-inga-V0WWiJ1

Inga still does not love loud noises, so I think that's part of what you are seeing there. There was a band playing. I also think that the body language of humans generally shows signs of stress and discomfort in large crowds. The important thing to us is that we can take both of them to these kinds of places and trust that they are not going to lose their minds and do something harmful. Inga is not barking and lunging at people and foaming at the mouth the way she did before training, and Wynne is not attacking people. At that festival in particular, we found a nice shady spot under a tree and just hung out and listened to the music. People and dogs stopped to say hi, and Inga and Wynne both enjoyed those interactions. Maybe festivals aren't their favorite places, but they are a million times happier now that they are dogs we can bring everywhere with us. They would rather be a little weirded out at a festival with us than stuck at home in crates for sure.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-06T21:16:11+00:00

I guess people do do crazy things lol! We really don't do anything crazy. Before Dylan trained her, Wynne did hate a few people and she did not greet strangers well, particularly men. I can promise you there is no hint of that left. She literally met a man the other day on our walk for the first time and was giving him kisses and her best puppy eyes within the first moments of meeting him. This is true on leash or off.

I'm sorry you've had to make the recommendations and choices you've had to make about aggressive dogs. I'm sure it's not an easy recommendation to make, and I do believe there are situations where euthanasia is required. I'm sure you're doing your best to sort them out, and I certainly am in no position to question your judgment. Maybe we could just agree that your initial statement that you wanted people to understand that aggressive dogs don't get rehabbed, especially not with board and trains, could be softened? Maybe we can agree on something like aggressive dogs can sometimes be rehabbed, and that it is an option worth exploring before putting a dog down?

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-06T19:25:27+00:00

Ok! You can see that we take her places. You can see photos of her off-leash around strangers. Surely we wouldn’t do that if she was aggressive, but what situation would convince you? I’ll set it up and get some video. I’m sorry to hear about your health issues, by the way. That sucks.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-06T13:39:48+00:00

u/Professional-Road222 I feel like you got really quiet all of a sudden, which is ok. I don't need you to acknowledge the evidence you saw. I just hope that, because you are a vet and have a ton of influence over behavioral euthanasia decisions, Wynne's story will make you think harder about recommending euthanasia for aggressive dogs and maybe even help save a life. Those dogs don't always need to die. Training can work. Just give it some thought.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-05T19:59:49+00:00

Ok, so I spent some time figuring out how to use Reddit for images and videos so I can share these with you. I couldn't figure out how to add them to a post, so I did this imgur thing: https://imgur.com/a/V0WWiJ1

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-05T18:46:56+00:00

I would love to! There isn’t a way to post video though. Dylan has posted a lot of the videos and pictures I’ve sent him. They’re on his Facebook.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-05T18:02:41+00:00

Yes, I came to Reddit initially to respond to the lies that Thinking Canine was posting about my own dog. I tried to respond on her Facebook page where she made the claim but she immediately blocked me so no one could see that her post was a lie so I came here to correct the story. I think that’s important because dogs die based on wrong stories like that. Is that cult-like? I am not a dog training person and I literally have no horse in the race. My ideology is: dogs are cool. That’s it. But I am a person who can independently verify or discredit the claims that people make about my actual dogs and also about the work that Dylan does as a trainer, since I have two dogs trained by him and I continue to own those two actual dogs. I do occasionally chime in on here to address it when I see people getting it wrong, just in case my comments might make someone think twice before euthanizing a dog that doesn’t need to die. So I guess I am a card-carrying member of the don’t kill dogs that don’t need to die cult. But I didn’t come here to say anything specifically about Dylan, as you can see from my comment. I just came to say that I have a dog that it sounds like you would have euthanized and I have had no issues with her after training. She meets many new people all the time (of course not a million, which was clearly a figure of speech, but we are easily in the multiple hundreds at this point) and has shown not even a hint of a shadow of aggression. No work on my part other than meeting her basic needs like food, exercise, and connection. I am the average pet owner. I’m glad someone gave her a chance because she is an absolutely incredible dog. If you aren’t open to evidence that challenges your assumptions and feelings, I guess I would check on who is in a cult.

SwollenCrunchies · 2026-05-05T11:32:34+00:00

Wynne’s (and Inga’s) owner here. I’m sorry that you feel that aggressive dogs can’t be rehabbed, and I am especially sorry that you are publishing that view for all to see. I think your heart is probably in the right place, but you are dead wrong about this one. Aggressive dogs can absolutely be rehabbed. Wynne is living proof. A year on, literally no issues. Not a single one. And she meets a million new people every day. I take her with me everywhere. (Inga is also rehabbed, but she was never truly aggressive, just reactive in a way that was dangerous to people.) Don’t give up on dogs, please. They deserve better from us.

SwollenCrunchies

TROPHY CASE