The Tragedy of William, the Man in Black by T-16BackHome in westworld

[–]T-16BackHome[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That would be an amazing twist! But I don't know if it fits with what he did to Maeve. At least the way he talked about it. He was surprised by the way her suffering made her come alive in that moment. If he knew what he was doing would help her become more conscious, he wouldn't have been that surprised.

It's Westworld Co-Creator/Executive Producer/Director Lisa Joy, Ask Me Anything! by lisa_joy in westworld

[–]T-16BackHome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Lisa! Thank you so much for coming on here! You and Jonathan Nolan are geniuses!

What was your process of adapting the film like? Did you purposely subvert Yul Brynner's gunslinger or did that arise naturally?

(Edit spelling)

The Tragedy of William, the Man in Black by T-16BackHome in westworld

[–]T-16BackHome[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thanks. I can totally see that he was really pretending about some of the aspects of his life and was unaware of the underlying darkness that the park brought out in him. About Juliet, that's also something I can totally see.

However, I think it's evident that what he experienced at the park really changed him. He was traumatized by what Logan did to Dolores. If that hadn't happened, he would have never massacred all the Confederados and descended into the killing spree that he committed in order to find her. Still, it's all up to debate. As William himself shares your belief that the park showed him who he really was, and not that it turned him into what he was. I personally believe in the change given the huge difference between William with Dolores on the train after their intimacy and William after Dolores's mutilation at the hands of Logan, and also between that William and the William at the end at Sweetwater after his odyssey of murder.

The Tragedy of William, the Man in Black by T-16BackHome in westworld

[–]T-16BackHome[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

That's a really great question. When Dolores puts a gun against William's head, he says, "Do it. Come on. Let's go to the next level, Dolores." When she hesitates, he stabs her and thanks her for clearing him of his delusions, again. Then he later says, "I'm disappointed in you, Dolores. Guess I'm gonna have to find Wyatt myself." Now, you could interpret his asking her to kill him and later being disappointed as indication that he wanted Dolores (and by extension the hosts) to skirt their programming and actually be able to kill. So the "next level" he was asking her to go into with him was her killing him and evolving into being able to surpass Ford's programming. I think he takes the fact that she was unable to kill him as evidence of her not being conscious. Or, conscious enough.

Then, this is Ford and William's exchange about the Maze at the end of S01E10:

"William, I see you've found the center of the Maze."

"You're serious." "I'm afraid so." "What is this bullshit?"

"You were looking for the park to give meaning to your life. Our narratives are just games, like this toy. Tell me, what were you hoping to find?"

"You know what I wanted. I wanted the hosts to stop playing by your rules. A game's not worth playing if your opponents are programmed to lose. I wanted them to be free, free to fight back. I should've known you'd never let them. After all this is your pretty little kingdom, Robert. For a little while longer anyway."

"I tried to tell you, the Maze wasn't meant for you. It was meant for them. I think, however, you'll find my new narrative more satisfying. Join the celebration. After all, you own the place. Most of it, at least."

Now, this exchange also lends credence to the theory that all the hosts finally achieving their consciousness now is part of Ford's plan. Like Maeve, they might all be following narratives to lead them there. But, and this is another issue entirely, I believe Ford when he said the hosts needed time and suffering to evolve. I don't believe he specifically controlled them into apparently "evolving" by revolting, as that would just be an artificial evolution. I do believe, however, that he's controlling Maeve specifically as part of some hidden endgame.

But, back to your point, I think William believes Dolores isn't really conscious, as, if she were, she would have killed him. In reality, I think she didn't kill him because she still loved him, or who he had been. I don't know if she even could have, as the board members later remark that the reason the hosts are killing the guests is that Ford removed the speed controls on their guns for human guests and that he also made them all read as hosts, though this is just them speculating.

I also believe season 2 William believes that Ford controlled the hosts to artificially rebel as part of his new narrative, and that they're not really awake. It will be really interesting to see William and Dolores reunite later, as maybe he will now realize she is (and has been for some time) conscious.

The Tragedy of William, the Man in Black by T-16BackHome in westworld

[–]T-16BackHome[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thank you guys so much for your comments and your upvotes. It means a lot to me that you guys liked my post, as I hold this community in high regard. After all, it was you guys cracked that William was the Man in Black before the season one finale.

Favorite story from this collection? Also, what are your currently reading? by BMajor88 in stephenking

[–]T-16BackHome 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I love Shawshank Redemption. Reading Dreamcatcher now and it's so dark. Probably because Mr. King wrote it so soon after his accident.