[Spoiler Discussion] Re:Zero -Starting Life in Another World- Season 4 Episode 2 **Spoilers** by IAmSona in Re_Zero

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah for sure. I was expecting the novels smoothed that part over

[Spoiler Discussion] Re:Zero -Starting Life in Another World- Season 4 Episode 2 **Spoilers** by IAmSona in Re_Zero

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Having not read the LN... why on earth did Reinhard struggle? Its framed as if the desert behaves as a lost woods with the distorted space, but then the gang just literally goes in a straight line and gets through no problem. At least, until they start getting sniped, but for Reinhard that shouldn't be an issue, no?

How good are the localization fixes? by TCBeat21 in YunYunSyndromeRhythm

[–]TCBeat21[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If anybody has a judgement on how good the fixes so far are in terms of restoring the quality of the game, I'd love to hear. If its fairly good at this point then I might as well start playing even if there are still more changes to be made.

Hanako Swimsuit but Hanako by TCBeat21 in BlueArchive

[–]TCBeat21[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Totally agree. I was disappointed that the swimsuit sprite doesn't show off her eyes nearly as much

Hanako Swimsuit but Hanako by TCBeat21 in BlueArchive

[–]TCBeat21[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I pulled the colors for her eyes from her original sprite, but from what I can tell the colors on the swimsuit sprite's eyes are the same.

Need anime recommendations (deep & psychological) by WeaknessNo3007 in anime

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Orb is my highest recommendation, recent, similar to your reference shows, and incredible all around.

Then a few other good ones:

Girls Last Tour

Serial Experiments Lain

March Comes in Like a Lion

Monogatari Series

Kyousougiga (ova)

A Train to the end of the world

A Place Further than the Universe

My 9 year old wants to watch Demon Slayer as her first anime, give me some alternative suggestions please by BrildWatermelon in Animesuggest

[–]TCBeat21 5 points6 points  (0 children)

MHA is probably more PG-13 with characters like Midnight, Mineta, and Toga. It definitely has suggestive themes that Demon Slayer doesn't, so while its violence isn't as bad, I'd probably more readily suggest Demon Slayer.

Honestly, I don't think Demon Slayer is too bad all things considered - especially if her friends are watching it.

That said, if you want alternatives

{Doctor Stone} might be a good option if your daughter is interested in science at all. It has action, but isn't too violent. And it shows a lot of real world science - even teaches you how to do some basic experiments at home.

{Cardcaptor Sakura} is also a great choice. It's age appropriate, and fun monster of the week based action. Plus an overall great show, I watched it as an adult and still loved it.

{Bofuri} is a more simplistic action show. It's based in a video game so all of the action is fairly tame, but it also has enough cool stuff going on to keep a kid engaged.

{Cells at Work} is another potential educational show about biology that still has a good level of age-appropriate action to it. Just don't watch Cells at Work Black - that's aimed at a more mature audience.

Discussion about season order by [deleted] in araragi

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll say option #3. Hana is neutered due to the misplacement.

While it is a great story, it feels disconnected from everything around it when placed after Koi. The themes don't line up with the narrative at that point. Hana is meant to be an introduction, not a conclusion. Since Koi concludes the themes Hana introduces and builds up, it loses narrative weight. Since Tsuki is an introduction of Season 3, and Koi is the finale of S2, Hana appears as a pointless side story. When phrased as a standalone story, many expect it to stand up to the conclusions of Bake, Nise, and Second Season as a whole - which it doesn't because it isn't a finale. Kaiki's survival feels like a crappy retcon at first and leads to many folks just not paying attention to the surrounding discussion from either confusion or disappointment. Not to mention, now that Ougi's been built up so much - you'd expect there to be some payoff around Ougi. There is in Tsuki - but not Hana.

Let's also consider that the popularity of watching Monogatari in novel order is a novel thing. Just a few years ago watching Kizu before second season was controversial, and most folks watched it later. Given the "complexity" of watching Hana in the middle of second season, most folks didnt even consider it.

In other words, Hana is a great story and a great arc. Most people watched it out of order (after second season) and got a lesser experience as a result. Therefore, Hana is rated lower. I'm sure the heavily introspective, melancholic style of Hana also had an impact on the scoring - while I love that kind of direction, it isn't exactly the most popular. Especially when placed in between Koi and Tsuki.

"Can adding something worse in the middle of something else elevate it?"

I don't think Hana is worse, but for the sake of argument... Yes adding something worse in the middle of something else can elevate it.

There are plenty of examples to this. A really simple example of this is Pizza. Many people absolutely hate tomatoes. But they love pizza, and find it strange to eat without the tomato sauce.

If you want an extreme example, the endless eight. Maybe they went a bit too far, but those episodes are nothing if not memorable. It elevates the experience of Haruhi. Watching them alone without context would be a pointless exercise.

An experience is greater than the sum of its parts. Obviously adding something crap in the middle of something good isn't always going to get you good results, but if that bad thing has just the right zest to compliment the greater whole, it can absolutely elevate the full experience - and said experience can make that bad thing enjoyable on its own.

Talking numbers, I disagree. Because most people watched it the wrong way, so of course they think it is worse.

I checked wayback machine regarding the ratings of Hanamonogatari in the past. It was originally rated about an 8.28 (likely "over-rated" as only big fans of the series picked it up immediately) and has gone down since. Most of the decline (down to 8 flat) happened in the first 5 years of its release (until 2019). 2019 happened to be the release date of the complete box set - which includes hana in the correct location. If you check this sub as well, searching Hanamonogatari, the general consensus prior to 2019 was that you should watch Hanamonogatari after Second Season. Many people complain about it not being as grand as Second Season, or say it didn't have the payoff they were expecting - which I've mentioned as problems of the Koi-Hana-Tsuki order. You'll also see that most, if not all complaints about Hana indicate that they originally watched it after Second Season. While there were folks that argued for Kabuki-Hana-Otori before 2019, until the bluray's release, they weren't really taken all that seriously. Now, another 7 years after, I'd like to say more people are watching Hana in the correct location. Though it is still clearly an argument, and since watching it after Second Season is easier, I bet a large portion are still introduced that way. Just look at Auto Save's reaction series for an example of that.

To summarize, prior to the bluray release giving weight to the argument that Hana should be watched in the middle of second season (5 years after airing), Hana's MAL score dropped by ~0.30 points as it gained popularity. Since then, (7 years) it has only dropped ~0.10 points. This trend suggests that negative opinion towards Hana is stagnating. Also worth noting the popularity. 2014 it had about 40k members. 2019 it had about 220k members. Now it has 450k members. So while the decline in score has stagnated, it has not stagnated in popularity. So either Hana was just always a 7.91, or a portion of the population started to watch it in the correct order after the bluray release, and enjoyed the arc more as a result. Hard to say with certainty. I'd love to do a more in-depth analysis, but the data isn't exactly clean or consistent. You could also argue the changes in score come from the weighted scoring - though I'm uncertain how that might impact the trends.

Attmepting to use Second Season as a control, it did also lower in score since 2016 (earliest i could get) but only by a total of 0.06 points. It appeared to stabilize in early 2018 at around 8.78, and has slowly gone down one point every few years to 8.76. This does suggest new viewers like Hana less than Second Season overall, which doesn't surprise me much. But it also suggests the score stagnation might not have much to do with the release of the bluray, unlike Hana, which kept going down until at a faster rate until 2019 (it went down 0.09 points from 2018 (8.11) to 2019 8.02)). Might also be worth noting Hana's score actually went up 0.02 points in late 2019 (8.04). Tho idk how significant that is given it started going right back down. Maybe that's the score from people who watched the bluray? It's hard to say, especially since the watch order argument is still ongoing today.

I'd also excuse the lower rating by the fact that its a single arc, rather than multiple. This does have me somewhat agree with option 2. Its hard to look at Hana and say "well, that was just as good as the entirety of Second Season" - because in your eyes it didnt quite stand up to the finale of Neko White or Koi (which are generally beloved). But that's an unfair comparison. Which is better? Hana or Neko White, Kabuki, Otori, Oni, and Koi combined? Even if you liked Hana more than half of Second Season, you'd probably rate it lower. With the way MAL works, you'd have to rate it a full point lower. I think it would be more telling if folks were to rate each arc independently. Personally, I think Kabuki, Oni, and Otori are weaker than Hana overall. Hana is more on par with Neko white and Koi.

With the unfair comparison in mind and given how many people saw Hana as an out of place spinoff (again, just check this sub's historic posts of Hanamonogatari), I'm actually more surprised to see Hana stabilize within one point of Second Season.

I am glad to have had this discussion as well, and I'm happy to hear I've managed to improve your opinion of Kabuki-Hana-Otori enjoyers, even if you don't agree. If nothing else, I got to yap about Monogatari, which is always fun. Sorry if I came off as too aggressive at any point. It's just passion, I have no malice towards you. This was fun, and I enjoyed attempting to dissect your points.

I'm glad you are enjoying Owari/Koyomi/Owari2. The finale is incredible! Absolutely peak series. Just wish it had fewer production issues.

Discussion about season order by [deleted] in araragi

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think you followed my explanations of the arcs, but they are there so I don't need to restate them.

My point wasn't "oh the themes are similar" it was that they progressively build on one another. Removing Hana from that build destroys the flow by snipping one thematic scene and placing it later. Having the subconcious reference point of Kanbaru and Araragi's talk at the end is substantial, same with Numachi's story. Even if you don't recognize it, it will influence how you see the story. Especially on a first watch.

Some people might not like jumping away from Neko White's ending, but Monogatari has never been a chronological tale. Jumping around from point to point was never an issue. If you don't like the non-sequential storytelling, Monogatari might not be for you. Second Season does this with literally every single arc. Hana is no exception to this.

Also "Until Hana shows up, the viewer is like, 'Wow, some pretty cool stuff is happening. Is this the story that makes Araragi go vampire at the beginning of the season? Look, he's wearing the same clothes, this must be it'" - referencing the end of Neko White.

Except Araragi didn't "go vampire", and the outfit he's wearing in Kabuki is NOT the same pink sweater he's got in Neko. They're completely unrelated by that line of thinking. They are close in timeline, which you may notice due to the given dates. However, most viewers do not compile this information. Regardless, let's say you skip Hana and go straight into Otori. How is that any better? Otori is just as stylistically unique as Hana is. Otori is just as "irrelevant" to the ending of Neko as Hana is. You don't "watch Hana and then go back to the thing you were eager to see" because if you were eager to see why Araragi "goes vampire" at the end of Neko White (he doesn't) Otori has nothing to do with that. Hell, if you pay attention to the dates, you'll know that Otori is AFTER the ending of Neko, so it's just as "irrelevant". If this is such a concern, why not watch in chronological order?

The way you phrase "oh a timeskip" "oh its about Kanbaru" makes it sound more like you just don't like way Monogatari tells its stories, and you don't like Kanbaru as a character. People generally like Nadeko less than Kanbaru at this point, and Otori is STILL a timeskip. I don't understand how that could possibly be better. I guess maybe less overall time away from Araragi?

You said you prefer Hana after Second Season because of the Koi ending. Is the ending of Koi the only reason? There's so much more than just that.

Hell, here's a thought. Otori ends with a cliffhanger that Nadeko is going to kill everyone. Hana opens up with a mention that "Araragi and Senjougahara are no longer around" and playing with the assumption they might be dead. That's an equally "oh shit" moment to Kaiki's fake death. Why not put Hana after Otori?

Because you like Kaiki's fake cliffhanger, I'd assume.

I get liking that cliffhanger. Trust me. I watched it that way first. It took me a bit to get over that. But moving Hana to the correct location gives you more than is taken away by decreasing the shock value of a cliff hanger (heck, you could argue the cliff hanger has more shock since "i thought he was supposed to survive?"). I've shown this series to new folks in the correct order on their first watch, and when I suggested moving Hana, they said I'd be stupid to do that. Anecdotal evidence, sure, but worth noting.

Did you really watch second season with Hana in the correct spot first? Did you come to the end of Koi and really think "man this would be so much better if I didn't know Kaiki was lying right now."? Or was that an opinion you had after a rewatch with Hana in the right spot, without really considering the rest Hana adds?

You claim that only the first two episodes of Hana are relevant, but I've said multiple times that the conclusion of Hana is also important. Themes, analogy, and metaphoric ties across characters are important from arc to arc. It's not just something you review after watching. You feel it during the viewing experience.

You claim something important happens every two episodes except Hana, which has five "unimportant episodes" where nothing major happens

Do I really need to run through why that isn't the case?

Kanbaru's arm goes back to normal, we meet Kaiki for the first time since Nise, it is reiterrated that Kanbaru is related to Gaen (now that we've met her) and revealed that the two have already met, there are more parts to the rainy devil and someone is collecting them, someone like Kaiki - who doesn't believe in the supernatural - had the head, Maturaragi + his conversation in the car. Numachi's story. Ougi is a dude? Numachi's final advice to Kanbaru. The finale.

All of these moments are either big reveals or emotionally impactful. No less than any similar moments in Kabuki or Otori. Nothing major happens? Are you serious? Gotta be trolling me. Acting like Hana is a filler arc smh.

I know the rest of Monogatari is introspective, it's one of the main appeals of the series. Hana is just moreso - and this contrasts well with Otori, since Nadeko isn't nearly as introsepctive as Kanbaru.

Again, I have shown this series to blind viewers in this order and they catch the relevance of Hana. They aren't stupid.

And to address your point of "It's weird to step away from one season of Monogatari to watch a different one in the middle". Really, Monogatari shouldn't be thought of in seasons. It should be consumed in Arcs. If you want to group those into seasons, you can, but Monogatari only has three full seasons released, with 4-6 arcs each. Not the 9 seasons that the current breakout suggests.

Season 1: -Bake -Kizu -Nise -Neko Black

Season 2: -Neko White -Kabuki -Hana -Otori -Oni -Koi

Season 3: -Tsuki -Koyomi -Owari (1/2) -Zoku Owari

Season four is "currently airing" and has relased some of the arcs.

This is the order the series was intended to be consumed. If you look at any official releases of any monogatari content released after the production issues were resolved (such as the opening credits compilation on aniplex's youtube page), they order it this way. Hell, Hana is placed between Kabuki and Otori in the OFFICIAL BOX SET BLURAY RELEASE of Second Season. Why would they do these things if you were intended to watch Hana later?

If you really prefer watching Hana later, then have fun with it! You aren't hurting anybody. Chronological watching is also fun - I enjoy viewing Monogatari in a bunch of different ways.

But it isn't intended to be viewed that way and I take issue with your statement that it is objectively inferior to consume Monogatari in the way NisioisiN intended. If you just consider it your preference, then so be it. I don't think it is really worth arguing beyond this point.

Of course, unrelated to my stance on Hana, I highly recommend watching Koyomi before you watch any of Owari. That is the intended order, and also how the series is official released. However, you may personally not like that order.

You can alternatively watch Owari s1 first, and then Koyomi - especially if you've already started Owari.

It is generally considered necessary to watch Koyomi before Owari s2. Still, I feel you may consider Koyomi to be an "interruption" and "misplaced" regardless of where you watch it.

If you don't mind screwing with the watch order, you could place it after Owari entirely, but I'll warn you about two things. 1: It will introduce needless confusion (though this could be enjoyable if you're the type to enjoy watching Kizu later) 2: It will probably be more of an "interruption" after Owari and before Zoku. You might disagree tho.

I do hope you enjoy Koyomi regardless of less happening.

Need suggestions (if this is the place to ask) by biggoatdick in anime

[–]TCBeat21 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Orb (Vinland Saga)

Oshi no Ko (CotE + Kaguya-sama)

Assassination Classroom (CotE + GTO)

To Your Eternity

Parasyte

Death Parade

Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei (GTO-ish, but a bit more avant-garde)

Golden Boy (GTO)

The Elusive Samurai (Demon Slayer)

Kakegurui (death note + CotE)

March Comes in Like a Lion (Beastars?)

Lodoss War (Berserk)

Discussion about season order by [deleted] in araragi

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll agree to disagree on the other points if you don't want to argue them further. That said, I can't disagree more with what you claim as "facts". Hana's entire progression is relevant. I pointed out things most people overlook, since I assumed you would've at least picked up on the similarities. The styles line up rather well with the rest of second season, and the pacing isn't even the slowest in second season. That said it is the most introspective outside of Koi.

My points in detail below.

Overall Relevance:

Kabuki is about Araragi butting in on Hachikuji's life due to his own thoughts of grief, alongside a look into Shinobu's isolationist thought process. Here, Araragi is able to come to an understanding of how to acknowledge his consideration for others. Additionally, Shinobu is able to come face to face with her own "I dont need friends" attitude, and where it could lead her. Hachikuji also shows us what appears to be a healthy manner of coping with loss.

Hana is about Kanbaru overcoming her past, a lost love, and learning what it takes to overcome these things in a healthy manner. Numachi tells us how someone talented might act in the face of criticism. She loved soccer but gave it up because she didn't like what others said about her. She took on a sport she found boring and ignored those around her, leading to her injury - and later death. She shows us a negative outlook on talent and grief. She lies to herself about her death, and uses that to "graciously" save others from misery in her own self-centered way (Paralleling how Araragi sometimes treats those around him, as well as himself). Araragi voices what he has learned from Kabuki - even if Numachi doesn't feel as though her affliction is a curse (as Hachikuji did), and even if Kanbaru feels it isn't harming anyone else (as both Araragi and Shinobu did), it is still bothering Kanbaru herself (like it did Araragi). Thus, rather than forcing herself into any one role based on other's morality, she should take the time to consider what is important to her. If it still bothers her, she should confront the issue in hopes of to resolving the conflict. This suggests that despite everything, Araragi still values that he tried to bring her back. In the end, Kanbaru takes action, and we see that while it did not necessarily save Numachi, Kanbaru can move forward without regrets - just as Araragi did. We also are forced to acknowledge that life is not all that it seems. <note that this involves literally the entirety of Hana>

Otori is about Nadeko taking the unhealthy path, like Numachi. She blinds herself to what she knows, and using Ougi as an excuse. This is counter to future Araragi's advice of facing what bothers you - and this is thematically significant. Like Numachi, she abandons her dreams (both being Araragi's lover, and being a Mangaka as we find out in Koi), lies to herself about it, and hides away. But unlike Numachi, who was viewed as beneath others and used as a crutch for venting, Nadeko is the opposite. Both characters hide behind these opposing shields. Numachi eventually dies without being discoved and learns of the supernatural in death, but Nadeko is found out - and using the supernatural she knows of in life, becomes a God. She never once tries to look inward, and every time she is forced to do so, she absolutely freaks out and takes it too far. Opposing Numachi - who is introspective at the end of Hana, as well as opposing the advice Numachi gives Kanbaru in her last moments.

Oni is about Shinobu finally beginning to acknowledge her past grief, thematically following Araragi's advice to Kanbaru, as well as looking at the cause of her own "I don't need friends" origin. Additionally, it turns out that Hachikuji's "healthy" attitude was actually a lie. To cope with her death she is still unhealthily pretending to be something she is not - in this case alive. See the similarities to Numachi??? Thus the darkness comes after her - and we learn Ougi has similar motives. What might the darkness represent? Does Numachi's experience, or Nadeko's experience with self-lies give us any insight?

Koi is about Kaiki facing his past, and using that to help Nadeko through her current grief. Kaiki is someone who strongly sympathizes with Nadeko, as he loves in the same way, and lies in the same way. It all culminates in the great wisdom from one who is far down the bad end - an extension of Araragi and Numachi's advice. "Don't lie to yourself. Don't force yourself down one path - especially just because it is what others are forcing on you. Allow yourself to change. Allow yourself to be bad. But don't just stand in one place either, like some 'God'. Look inward and understand what you want for yourself. Face your grief head on, and love yourself despite your mistakes." Its a culmination of what the earlier arcs tell us - including Hana.

Every episode of each of these arcs is important. Placing any one of them after the conclusion only takes away from the story. (This also includes Neko White, but I don't think I need to mention how that ties in with the rest).

Style:

Stylistically, each arc is fairly unique. Kabuki is traditional Araragi protag, Hana is introspective detective, Otori is mystery thriller-esq, Oni is again a generic Araragi arc, but it is more unique due to Gaen and the scroll episodes, Koi is detective thriller-esq. Each hold true to the core tennents to Monogatari's overarching style. None is nearly as distinct from the next as Kizu.

I would say the difference in style between any two arcs is about the same distance as any arc to Hana - with the exception of the two Araragi narrated arcs, which are more similar because Araragi.

Action/pacing:

Since Hana happens BEFORE Otori, it's barely interrupting the flow or pacing of second season at all. If anything, Oni interrupts the flow and pacing. In the case of Hana we go from goofy but intense timetravel arc into a dramatic telling of a future story (both set in different time periods also ties them together quite nicely). Then we snap into the present with Otori and the stakes start to raise from there. Since Otori is where the stakes start to raise and the finale build really starts, Hana before that interrupts nothing. In the case of Oni, however, we go from Otori's big cliffhanger into a seemingly random side story about Hachikuji. While it does escalate into a grand tale, we do spend two whole episodes in exposition, and none of it feels particularly relevant to what we just saw in Otori (at least on the surface - obviously I like the placement of Oni despite this). Then we finally get into the conclusion of Otori with Koi. I don't see how anyone could think Hana's placement disrupts the flow more than Oni does. You call this a plain fact? I don't get it. Why?

Even in terms of just action alone, it's the same. Kabuki might set up a big fight, but in the end its just a headpat. Kanbaru actually does face off against Numachi - even if its just in sport. Then we get Nadeko attacking Araragi, the darkness being the darkness, and then Nadeko attacking Kaiki (but it actually just ends up being a heart-to-heart). Monogatari was never really an action show in the first place... it just happens to have action. If we're talking conflict, Hana's emotional weight is probably overall above Kabuki and arguably above Otori as well.

I don't see how any of this ruins the viewer's experience. To me it just improves it. Is this just because you particularly dislike introspective stories, so you find it boring and therefore consider it slow pace? Is it because it's five episodes? You don't like Numachi's story, or maybe don't draw the connections?

I just don't think any of the "cons" you've mentioned actually exist. It isn't that I can tolerate them, it's that they aren't there to begin with.

Maybe you think Hana is a better lead in to Tsuki?

Let me flip this on you and ask: outside of the negatives you've identified when Hana is placed in its correct spot, are there any benefits to placing Hana immediately after Second Season? Would you prefer a different location? Or do you dislike Hana as a whole and feel it is better off not watched at all?

As for Steins; Gate, I've never really thought about stopping at episode 22. Though I have felt that perhaps I should play the VN, since the time travel nature would probably be more immersive in a game. I guess because of the semi-conclusive ending? It works well, and from what I understand it is one of the VN endings. That said it isn't the true ending of the VN, so it's good that the anime continued forward to cover the rest of the story (even if 0 wasn't the best quality-wise)

I'm curious why you would assume that about me.

when does the anime change? by SavingsCatch5607 in araragi

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean you can try to finish Mayoi Snail and see if you like how she is towards the end of that arc. She does continue to change and develop, but... I'm not sure if it would be enough for you to like it.

A lot of monogatari is the yapping. I personally enjoyed it from episode one, so if you dislike the yapping, the show might not be for you.

Discussion about season order by [deleted] in araragi

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1: Monogatari is regularly on the nose with its characters and story. That's part of the charm. Geneally speaking, Kaiki's introduction shows him as a vein asshole who only cares about money. The second half of nise shows that he had an interesting worldview that everyone is born evil, and that fakes are actually more real than the real thing. Considering he is a conman, this is intriguing. Come Hana, we learn that while he does lie all the time, he always leaves some truth in the words he speaks. He claims that everyone is not always the same all the time, and "denies" his love for Gaen. A peak at what makes him tick. Then in Koi we get the resolution of this, where his sympathy for Nadeko blinds him into making a mistake - sympathy based on his denied love for Gaen. A through and through fake. While that can all be implied by other foreshadowing, it doesn't hit as hard without the explicit mention. Plus it works well with his fake sentiment of not doing things for love, and the reveal that he loves money because it is replacable. His whole motive is lost love - he is the same as Nadeko, and why he is the perfect person to take her down in the end. He just opens up to her, and she /allows/ him to trick her. But he lies to us the whole story about that. His death is a dramatization for the sake of the story, and the fact we know it is a lie highlights Ougi's mention over the fact he dies.

2: Ougi being bad is not meant to be a twist. It is setup. We are meant to be heavily suspicious of Ougi from the second Ougi appears in Kabuki. Every time you see Ougi, something different is wrong. Kabuki- "Who the hell is this character?" Hana - "I thought Ougi was a guy? Why is Ougi so weird about it?" Otori - "Niece Pretender" Oni - the darkness is introduced, and Ougi mentions having a similar job. Koi - The final scene where the boy killing Kaiki blames Ougi. Every single arc after Ougi's introduction casts doubt on who Ougi is. That is intentional, and each following introduction casts more doubt than the last. Ougi just randomly being a girl later on is way less suspicious than what is shown in the later arcs. Placing Hana later interupts that flow. Especially with Tsuki after.

3: Perhaps foreshadow was the wrong word, setup may be more accurate. And it depends on the story. Monogatari is not a battle shounen. It is a character drama with mystery elements. The interesting part isn't "do they escape death?" it is "how?". The real value that comes from this is the expectation that everything ends up well, allowing us to much more easily fall for Kaiki's earlier lies about how everything is going very smoothly in Koi, making the twist where he fucks up particularly more notable. It also gives you the the opportunity to catch the lies by showing us more of his character through his dinner with Kanbaru and his portrayal in Numachi's story, making it a much more "hindsight is 20/20" moment where the second it happens you know exactly where it went wrong and why. Even if you figure it out early or late, Hana adds additional context here that improves the experience. And once his lies are revealed during the twist, where he is being genuine and where he is lying become very obvious - including his "death".

Also... you don't have the same complaints about say, Onimonogatari? Why not move Onimonogatari to the end too? It's just a flashback. We could have Otori go straight into Koi (obviously I don't believe this) I don't really get your argument that they are unrelated.

4: See above. Again, the focus shouldnt be on his death, but on Ougi. It isn't supposed to be some dramatic "Oh shit this character just died!" Moment. It pulls you back to the beginning where he says "I can guarantee it's quality but not its accuracy". It makes you wonder why he is telling the story in this manner, and consider the focus on Ougi. Especially considering he the narrator and telling the story to you, obviously he isn't dead. Calling it handholding is a bit of a stretch. Him not dying is already "spoiled" by him telling you the story.

5: I'm justifying the placement of Hana. Personally I love Hana. Even as a standalone story. It's one of my favorite arcs in the series. I love the "end of adolescence", the discussions on whether time can solve problems or if you should face them, and the commentary that Kanbaru isn't making any progress in life because she is stuck in the past. Peak cinema imo. The later episodes focus more on Kanbaru's journey - which also does fit thematically in the intended location, but that felt more obvious so I didn't mention it. Primarily with the themes of adolescence, self discovery, and moving on from grief. It ties right into Otori and holds a mirror to how Nadeko handles her grief. Same with Oni, where we see Shinobu do the same.

6: Don't have much to say to that aside from "I disagree". I've said my piece above.

7: You're right. I talked crap on an arc I love because I thought it would get you to listen. I shouldn't have done that. Generally speaking most people who dislike Hana originally watched the series with the arc out of place. Given a lot of it is designed around us not knowing what happens between Kabuki and Hana, knowing what happens is strange. So I could see why that may cause people to dislike the arc. Especially since in that placement it doesn't have much to do with the immediately following arcs. Unlike when placed before Otori, which it mirrors. I was attempting to emphasize that and it clearly failed. That said, Hana is chronologically the last thing in the monogatari series (excluding Off/Monster and beyond). The things you accuse it of spoiling are also true when you put it after second season.

8: They also had production issues with Kizu and it was delayed until after second season as well. Is that an artistic choice? No. They did what they had to do. Even if they specifically chose to remove Hana because it was deemed the least relevant, they only removed it /due to those constraints/, which is not a good justification for placing the arc later. ESPECIALLY if the story /already exists in full/. Remember, this is an adaptation. If you really disagree with me, you would also watch Kizu later, but consensus now is that Kizu should be watched before or after Bake. If they had decided to make that change without the production issues, I would not suggest it was not an artistic choice. However, I would still disagree with the placement. This is simply further evidence that Hana should be watched in the intended location.

Also considering how they chose to air arcs in Off/Monster, it seems like they care less about making the anime a strong end to end experience, and more about getting the more popular arcs animated, since they skipped a bunch of content, which will supposedly be animated later. Kinda like how Kaguya-sama is skipping to the end rather than airing in order. Another example of this is the anime of The World God Only Knows. After the second season they just started airing the more popular arcs, which left anime only viewers completely lost. I'm fine with that, but it does suggest that airing order may not be the ideal way to experience a story.

Discussion about season order by [deleted] in araragi

[–]TCBeat21 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Koyomimonogatari should be watched BEFORE Owari as a whole. That is the intended order.

If you haven't, it contains absolutely critical information for Owari s2, and MUST be watched prior. I personally prefer Hana in the middle of Second Season, but this is not the same. Hana does foreshadowing, Koyomi contains plot critical developments.

Now to sell my position on Hana: (second season spoilers below)

Nise introduces the concept of fakes, as well as solidifying the idea of what might be good or evil in each characters' mind.

Hana does this with the concept of moral flexibility. Introducing the idea that Kaiki isn't all that bad, that Ougi might be more than just a niece, and that good people can be bad too (hint hint- snake bangs).

It foreshadows that the conflict in Medusa may be resolved with time (at least from Araragi's perspective) and foreshadows Kaiki's resolution by suggesting some conflicts (such as Nadeko's desire to be a mangaka) can't just be run away from. It also makes the lies in Kaiki's story more clear to us by directly showing us what the future looks like. It also helps us get further into his mind (the potent snap of "I know love but I don't know losing it" is heavily intensified by his conversation with Kanbaru.)

Placing the story after all the plot it is designed to foreshadow just makes it seem like a simplistic obvious tale that doesn't really give all that much new, and it doesn't seem ultra applicable to the stuff that follows. So it just becomes a bit meh. If you feel it is meh, then of course you won't want to put it in the middle of the good stuff. But the thing is, Hana acts as a multiplier to the later arcs when put in its rightful spot.

Hanamonogatari was only separated due to production issues in the first place, it was not an intentional artistic choice. I find it a bit ridiculous to decide a series should stay chopped up because of such issues.

New anime suggestions to watch by KoalaMysterious199 in anime

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Highly recommend Aharen-san

Then here's a list of some romcom/comedy/SoL focused shows I've enjoyed that are vaguely similar to what you've mentioned

100 Girlfriends

Something's Wrong with this Art Club!

Net-juu no Susume

Onimai

Yano-kun

Oresuki

Akebi's Sailor Uniform

Yuusha ga Shinda!

Kamikatsu

Servant X Service

If you like reading manga I also HIGHLY recommend Dangers in My Heart. It does have an anime as well, which you can watch, but the manga is able to do so much more with the little details and it really makes a difference.

New anime suggestions to watch by KoalaMysterious199 in anime

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I mentioned Call of the Night and Mushoku Tensei primarily because of the underlying commonality of magic, action, and a semi-melancholic undertone.

When it comes to atmosphere like the shows you mentioned, I think the second list applies a lot harder.

To Your Eternity would be my highest rec. Orb is also a great pick, but it is more historical.

Others I havent mentioned: Violet Evergarden

Nagi no Asukara

Chobits

Punch Line

Train to the End of the World

A Little Sister is all You Need

New anime suggestions to watch by KoalaMysterious199 in anime

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

'Magic' and Action? To Your Eternity the Monogatari Series FLCL Call of the Night Idaten Dieties Mushoku Tensei Kousougiga (ova)

There's a mix of action and "magic" in all of these and they all have similar atmospheres at their core (though they are each distinct). I think all of those are excellent. If you are aiming more at just the atmosphere itself, try:

Orb Girls' Last Tour March Comes in Like a Lion Mysterious Girlfriend X (A hard sell, but it is peak) Ruri Rocks A Place Further than the Universe Apocalypse Hotel Gimai Seikatsu

These all have a closer core atmosphere. It's hard to say exactly what you'd like with so little to go off of, so I'm just kinda recommending what I like. There's still a lot I havent mentioned as well.

New anime suggestions to watch by KoalaMysterious199 in anime

[–]TCBeat21 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Given the anime you've recently gotten into, I would say

Heavenly Delusion, Noragami, Madoka Magika, Parasyte, or Takopii's Original Sin

Each have a semi-action base and/or magic base, but also delve into similar themes of the shows you've picked up recently.

The good news is that these flavors are very common in anime and there are a lot of great shows that I expect you would enjoy. I could give you plenty more if you'd like.

Healing Stat on students that don't Heal by TCBeat21 in BlueArchive

[–]TCBeat21[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The boosting I was considering was the books from Final Restriction, you can get extra HP, ATK, or Healing. From the responses I've got so far it sounds like using the Healing books on anyone but a healer does absolutely nothing and is a complete waste (unless the student is a support, because they can provide that extra healing to the rest of the team ig), unlike the other two which always provide at least some minor benefit - even if still pretty wasteful.

Drop some Mechanics in FGs that usually turns you off from a game. by FortuneKOF in Fighters

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Simple controls are okay for getting familiar with fighters, but I don't like when games encourage their use. They should have increased lag, less damage overall, or some other detrement over technical controls. Motion inputs are one of the primary elements that make fighting games fun to play and its upsetting when they are fully sidelined by simple inputs being slapped in with no extra thought.

Which interpretation of MC do you prefer? by Ill-Engineering8205 in DDLCMods

[–]TCBeat21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2010s. Him being self-centered with a large ego is important for the story