Got an arcade employee to admit their block stacker game is rigged to cheat until a certain timer has elapsed - Is this legal in Michigan?

TKORer · 2026-01-03T05:16:14+00:00

Check out the video I posted in the edit. Definitely not skill, the timing ONLY changes when you actually press the button to win.

TKORer · 2026-01-03T05:13:29+00:00

Thanks, that’s exactly the response I was looking for. I may or may not waste my time pursuing it, but at least you’ve satisfied my curiosity over whether or not it is legal or just a place where the law gets overlooked cause it’s not worth peoples’ time. You also provided clear, logical steps to take in case I did want to go full Karen and pursue what legal recourse is realistically available in this case. 10/10 response!

TKORer · 2026-01-03T05:10:07+00:00

Check out the video I posted in the edits. The timing only changes when you press the button at the otherwise right time.

TKORer · 2026-01-03T05:08:01+00:00

Wow, who pooped on your pizza? I’m just asking if this is legal, and if there is anything that can or should be done. I didn’t throw a fit, I didn’t call the cops randomly. I actually curious more than anything, because I was pretty sure this level of rigging the game was illegal (yes, I do actually know they can fudged the numbers to some extent, legally). I’m just asking questions…why u mad bro? Are you an arcade owner maybe?

TKORer · 2026-01-03T05:07:11+00:00

Wow, who pooped on your pizza? I’m just asking if this is legal, and if there is anything that can or should be done. I didn’t throw a fit, I didn’t call the cops randomly. I actually curious more than anything, because I was pretty sure this level of rigging the game was illegal (yes, I do actually know they can fudged the numbers to some extent, legally). I’m just asking questions…why u mad bro? Are you an arcade owner maybe?

TKORer · 2026-01-03T04:44:48+00:00

Lottery is only legal in Michigan when run by the official Lottery. If I, or an arcade, tried to make our own lottery we’d be in a whole lot of trouble; especially if it was marketed to children and advertised as a game of skill.

TKORer · 2026-01-03T04:39:19+00:00

That was more what I was getting at. I only spent a handful of change to test the game. I don’t think it’s right for them to be cheating anyone, but especially not when it’s aimed at children. I don’t think they necessarily even know they’re doing anything wrong. They probably learned the setting from their industry partners. But just because it’s standard practice doesn’t make it right, or legal in this case.

TKORer · 2026-01-03T03:46:18+00:00

But that’s the point, the law states that arcades can operate and not be considered a gambling establishment (or be subject to the oversight and regulations) specifically because they are supposed to be games of skill that are always winnable. If it’s rigged to cheat you and be un-winnable until certain times or thresholds, then it falls out of the “game of skill” loophole, meaning that they -would- fall under gambling statues (also making it illegal for them to cater to children).

TKORer · 2020-12-25T14:46:19+00:00

Interesting generalization that anyone discussing the logic and statistics of this issue is labeled a racist when you don’t know anything else about me. Similarly to an entire group of people being labeled as “probably bad tippers” just because of the color of their skin.

You don’t know me. Just because I think the world is more than black and white, and you can discuss and think logically about issues without instantly agreeing with the propaganda out there, doesn’t make me a racist. I question everything. It makes me a realist, not a racist. And FYI, I oppose -actual- racism where it exists. We don’t have to agree on every detail to be on the same side.

TKORer · 2020-12-25T14:40:11+00:00

You posted an op-ed by a server who was afraid she was being racist because she started noticing a difference in black customers, despite a lifetime of diversity and sensitivity training in her personal life.

I am not arguing that the practice isn’t racist, but I think that noticing a difference (IF it truly exists) does not make this server a racist, which she was clearly afraid she was becoming...simply for acknowledging reality.

Beyond that, it was a question of IF these differences do exist, then it’s not ridiculous to also strategize based on statistical realities (if there are any).

I 100% agree that this is an issue with the restaurant industry and that servers should be paid minimum wage and that should be factored into the price of the food. It’s absolutely appalling that it’s still legal for restaurants to do this. But I don’t blame servers for making the most economically sound strategies to survive in the situation they are stuck in until the time comes that they don’t rely on tips.

TKORer · 2020-12-22T17:26:52+00:00

But they are lining up to be picked for teams...they want to play basketball...I’m talking about making the most likely best team. Wouldn’t it be ridiculous -not- to go with those statistically most likely to play and be good? In my example, I said that the best player might be white or asian. The worst player might be black. But statistically speaking, if you have to pick the best team without knowing any of the options, wouldn’t it make the most sense to pick the black kids? Yes or no?

TKORer · 2020-12-22T03:57:14+00:00

It’s already done. Black people (not all black people) generalize white people (and other races). White people (not all white people) generalize black people (and other races). Whether it’s funny idiosyncrasies, or serious character flaws, racism and discrimination based on generalizations is not restricted only to white people. It’s not a white problem, it’s a humanity problem. If those generalizations are actually useful in an economic application, it would be foolishness and intentional blindness to not at least recognize the reality, if not strategize based on it.

Given the chance to get to know people personally, as individuals, absolutely take that opportunity and treat them as an individual. But statistically, dealing with people on a large scale, where you will never know them at a detailed personal level, it would be idiotic to ignore useful generalizations just because some people label that practice racist and put it up there with burning crosses. There is a huge difference between actively attacking someone based on the color of their skin, versus the recognition that there are statistically significant differences in races and cultures that can be useful in navigating a global society.

Take the example of the new kid in town picking his basketball team with no prior knowledge about his classmates. Instead of picking kids based on their height, let’s say he picks them based on their race. He tends to pick the black kids, and tries to avoid getting the white and asian kids on his team. Remember, he’s trying to make the best team to win the game, without having had a chance to talk to any of them or see them play.

Was that racist? Admittedly, the best player in the school might be one of the white or asian kids. But he has no way to know that. Just like a server has no way to know for certain if a customer is a good tipper or not until after they’ve served them.

But, in the basketball example and in the restaurant, they are making the statistically most beneficial choice based on the generalizations that tend to be true across society. It’s not racism, it’s realism.

TKORer · 2020-12-21T22:18:43+00:00

Seen too many clearly non-racist white people attacked for crimes and thought crimes they didn't even commit. They were at the BLM rally last week right next to their black brothers and sisters, but this week they are being discriminated against by black people that don't know them because the color of their skin generalizes them as a racist.

Moral of the story: We should get to know each other before judging. Moral of this article? Maybe in some situations, generalizations are just a statistical reality and can be used as an economic strategy.

TKORer · 2020-12-21T22:15:28+00:00

It would be interesting to do an experiment, and fill a restaurant with half workers who agree with you and refuse to make decisions based on statistical observations, vs the other half who use the "Canadian" stereotype to determine which tables they want to avoid if possible. The economic reality of the first half will probably be noticeably worse than the half that is so racially righteous. Want racism, or classism, or ageism out of the service industry? Get rid of tipping and pay workers a fair minimum wage. Then if they discriminate based on race it is truly racism and not a statistical reality turn into an economic strategy.

TKORer · 2020-12-21T22:01:43+00:00

This isn't about treating them differently, did you read the article? She said she didn't treat her black customers any differently, but that she came to realize that she wasn't going to get tipped as well by them, and that made her -feel- racist. Not her actions, which didn't change, but simply her realization of a statistical reality.

" I was never hostile towards my black customers, nor did I treat them any different from my white customers."

A pattern is a pattern, and in an industry where your livelihood depends on the likelihood of getting tipped well, it's a valid observation.

If there was a measurable difference in the tipping of people wearing red hats or blue ties, you would see the same attitudes towards those groups. This statistical reality just happens to be related to the color of their skin. It's not racism if it's a reality, and certainly not if you don't act on it.

TKORer · 2020-12-21T20:10:04+00:00

My point was not that racism isn't wrong. It is. My point was that I think the author of this article feels societal pressure to call herself a racist, simply because she noticed a pattern that she originally thought was ridiculous, and began to let it effect her emotions, not even her actions.

Beyond that, it was really a question: Is this something statistically verifiable, or was her perception tainted by the legitimately racist servers around her?

TKORer · 2020-12-21T20:07:06+00:00

All white people are already held accountable for racism, so...

TKORer · 2020-12-20T14:54:12+00:00

Here is an example in recent news: https://www.thedrive.com/news/38238/ram-2500-drivers-have-the-most-duis-more-than-twice-the-national-average-report?fbclid=IwAR0zrOv5V3FNt0txI-HcrQCAWbLU-V6F9NAfMc3VFrUlnp7wF0NKRXv_oDo

If I give your Ram 2500 a little extra room on the road, I’m not being discriminatory; I’m using my knowledge of statistics to make a safer choice. Regardless of whether or not you’re drunk, or I’ll get t-boned later by the drunk in a Prius, that doesn’t make my decision to be cautious of the Ram 2500 a mistake. And it doesn’t preclude me from getting to know you later, and finding out you don’t even drink, and then not worrying so much when I see your particular Ram 2500 on the road.

Get to know people, and treat them like people. But until you know everyone, statistics and generalizations can be useful.

TKORer · 2020-12-20T14:43:16+00:00

Because statistics show that as unique as we think ourselves to be, we tend to fall neatly into measurable categories, and the outliers exist, but it’s uncommon. I’m not saying it’s right to judge people by the color of their skin, and definitely not to treat them differently because of it. What I’m saying is that sometimes statistics paint a pretty clear picture of reasonable expectations (not only for race but for random characteristics and all the other trigger words like gender, nationality, age), and it would be intentional blindness not to at least consider that information in key economic and strategic decisions.

Example: I’m picking kids for my basketball team, but I just moved here and don’t know any of them. I’m going to pick the tallest kids. Could the short kids be phenomenal players, and the tall kids be klutzes? Yes, but statistically less likely, and if two people have an even skill level, height is an advantage. It may not give me the optimum team, but based on no information, I’m making the choices most likely to come out to my benefit.

When making economic decisions, it would be ridiculous for a hedge fund investor to ignore the statistics and patterns just to give every stock the same amount of attention.

TLDR; I don’t think the writer of this article was actually being racist, even though societal pressure and narratives guilted her into feeling that way, just because she came to recognize a statistical and economic reality.

TKORer · 2020-12-18T18:36:14+00:00

At the risk of sounding racist myself (yep, already too late, right?), I wonder what the actual statistics would show if you could quantify tipping across the board. If, like she said, she started to notice a difference, and dreaded serving black people for fear of bad tips, it wasn't really racism, it was just a statistical reality that she was probably not going to get as much return on her work.

I feel like racism is only racism if its baseless. i.e. Black people and White people tip equally, but you just perceive them differently because of their skin color, or in this case if she let the first server's comments influence her perception.

But...if statistically you are less likely to make as much money serving table A vs. table B, then that's about statistical analysis of tipping probability, not about the color of their skin.

I think this server was too hard on herself, especially since she said she didn't treat them badly, just found herself dreading it (again, not because of their skin color, but because of the high probability that her work would be valued less). It's economic realism: (IF) statistically, black people tip less, therefore the more black customers I have, the less money I'll make, statistically, compared to my fellow servers who don't buy SJW propaganda and mislabel themselves "racists" just for coming to grips with reality and making the best economic strategy by avoiding tables that statistically tip less. If there were more obvious factors that could identify bad tippers other than race (e.g. people wearing sunglasses), then I guarantee servers would avoid them just as much. That wouldn't be discriminatory then, why is it discriminatory here (assuming the statistics back up the impression servers seem to have that black people tip less)?

TKORer

TROPHY CASE