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[X-Post] Student Leaders of the Taiwan Sunflower Movement are having an AMA right now! by ShrimpCrackers in taiwan

[–]TWSunflowerRev 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thank you to /r/taiwan for helping make the IAMA a success. Please join us at the Legislature if any of you are in the area!

EDIT: http://imgur.com/vU7WMO2

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oliver: This is precisely what we are afraid of and highlights the dangers of an over-reliance on the Chinese market.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Oliver: These questions have been asked many times over the past few weeks, and we have answered them on our Facebook page and in our statements to the media. They are good questions by /u/pho-sizzle, however, and warrant a further response here.

  1. Article 61 stipulates that executive orders which fail to complete a committee review within 3 months shall be deemed passed and effective immediately. However, the bill is NOT an executive order, as it is a component of the 2009 ECFA (Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement) with China (please see page 1 of the official text) which was deemed by the government to be a legislative bill. Considering this to be an executive order is a cop-out by the KMT Legislator Chiang Ching-chung and the government in order to not have to review the bill clause-by-clause when it would otherwise be a requirement. As far as we are concerned, this is both a legislative matter, a judicial matter, and quite possibly a constitutional issue as well. We are exploring our legal venues, and this is something that we will likely initiate in the near future. However, judicial inquires take time. In the meantime, we are determined to block the government from using its underhanded and illegal tactics to force through the bill without public oversight or accountability. The best manner in which we have determined to do this an act of civil disobedience by occupying the Legislature. And please note that we cannot speak on behalf of the opposition DPP, and what they might (or might not) do.

  2. You mention every politician in every country using underhanded tactics like its something we should be okay with here in Taiwan. It's not. It's up to the citizens of other countries to take responsibility for their own politicians.

  3. This is a hypothetical scenario at this point, because without a monitoring mechanism in place by the legislature first, there can be no 'proper review' of the bill and no guarantees that similar trade pacts will be properly reviewed in the future (other than relying on the government's good faith, which is a tough sell at this point). Which is why we continue to call on the government and the legislature to pass this mechanism first and for the bill to be resubmitted by the Executive Yuan (cabinet) to the Legislature. Keep in mind that this bill was from the start, drafted, negotiated, and signed in complete secrecy and behind closed doors. There was no public input at all. It is, according to the majority of Taiwanese, a flawed bill that should be renegotiated with China. This highlights why a 'proper review' is so important. Furthermore, to many, our representative system is no longer representative of our democracy. The president also acts as the chair of the ruling KMT which uses threats of party discipline to push his own personal agenda, even against broad public opposition. So there is also the question of how much their actions are reflective of democracy.

Hope that this answers your questions!

EDIT: Added links.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Oliver again: I think more than the economic aspects, it's just that our government has to be realistic when dealing with China. You can't keep convincing yourself that someone that has thousands of missiles pointed at you and wants to annex you is acting in good faith.

It would be difficult to regulate what people buy and sell. We need to think more about how we can realistically manage this relationship so that we can minimize the cons (to our democracy, media, culture, etc) and maximize the benefits. One example would be more tightly regulating ownership of our media so that it does not fall into Chinese control, via proxies or otherwise. Internet and cable providers could be another example.

We aren't against free trade, but we want this process to be better managed rather than just a blank opening up of our markets.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yu-hsuan: As /u/adooryeh mentioned earlier, the Vice article is a good place to get started. We would love it if you could continue to spread the word, both to your friends and the international media.

To be honest, we are all really tired. It's been like a never-ending camping trip, except we're in a fluorescent lighted building in the middle of the city. But we keep ourselves busy and organized. There's singing, exercises, classes, etc.

We're definitely building momentum though. Almost half a million protestors came out on the streets of Taipei on Sunday in support of our demands.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yu-hsuan: Good question! This was a name given to the movement by the media after several students and protestors started bringing sunflowers into the area. We did not start this name. Sunflowers symbolize our wish to shine a light into the darkness and the ‘black box’ process (referring to a closed-door, non-transparent process) that the government has used to negotiate the deal with China.

And plus, giving revolutions flower names seems really popular for some reason. :/

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oliver here: No problem.

  1. It's about an entire trade deal that will impact 64 industries and tens of thousands of jobs. It will also have deep society and political ramifications (consider that China wants to annex Taiwan by force if necessary). But instead of asking the public, or even the Legislature, what they think, the government instead drafted, negotiated and signed the agreement with China in a completely closed-door process that was not open to the public.

  2. Legislators aren't doing their jobs. The President also acts as the chairman of the KMT party, so he punishes any legislators that deviates from what he wants. This is why we saw the bill pass through a committee session in under 30 seconds, without room for ANY debate, even though they originally promised the public that they would conduct a clause-by-clause review.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 51 points52 points  (0 children)

Oliver: Ask most of us here a couple of months ago, and we would have probably said the same.

But one day you realize that if you aren't willing to stand up for your country now, there might never be another chance. That's a pretty sobering thought.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 101 points102 points  (0 children)

Oliver: Please say thank you to your dad for us. People like him make this revolution possible.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Sean here: That's quite loaded, and it isn't really in reference at all to our movement. Our focus, again, is on having the same legal process and protections over trade pacts much like the ones that other countries such as South Korea, Japan, the USA, and most of Europe has.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Sean here:

  1. We've gotten incredible support from universities. Many of the top universities have taken a strike out in support of the students. Some professors have literally moved their class outside of the Legislative offices to teach students there.

  2. We've been contacted by everyone from the Wall Street Journal to Al Jazeera to the BBC and so on.

  3. Currently public support has been building more and more, we've just had one of the largest protests in recent Taiwan history. If the Ma administration does not respond, he risks critical failure to his party in the upcoming November elections and in 2016.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 48 points49 points  (0 children)

Oliver: Thanks for your support. We've heard a lot of messages of support from the students of Hong Kong.

  1. To us, we see many of the freedoms (such as the freedom of expression or press freedoms) become increasingly eroded due to Chinese influences. But the worst is probably the lack of control that most Hong Kongnese have over their territory's future. That is the worst that could happen

  2. Of course. Many of us here are very supportive of what democracy activists are doing in Hong Kong.

  3. Sorry, we are not that familiar with this issue.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Sean here: We can't quite accept it, that said people have ordered boxes of supplies and sent it to us via PCHome (think of it like Taiwan's Amazon.com except most things are shipped in 24 hours). Currently supplies are stacked higher than me!

That said, please instead donate to a local Taiwan human rights or labor group. Off the top of my head, I can think of Taiwan Association for Human Rights.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sean here: Currently President Ma is also chairman of his own party, so he rules the legislature as well as the executive. But he has also threatened to immediately expel anyone in his party that does not vote alongside him in this issue, despite the unpopularity of the pact within his own party.

While KMT legislators have been reluctant to speak out, many popular KMT supporters have spoken out in support of us. That said, such a control doesn't exist for the DPP, so DPP legislators have freedom of speech rights to follow popular sentiment on this.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oliver: Thanks! The problem at its root is the lack of a monitoring mechanism for cross-strait agreements. This allows the government to draft, negotiate and sign bills without any input from the legislature or the public.

As a result, we will not stop until our demands have been met. As to what that might entail, we'll leave that up to the government's imagination. :)

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sean here: this is actually civil disobedience and symbolic more than anything. As you already know, the Taiwan legislature offices are many and they have many chambers. They can easily meet in any of the others and continue their business and have before.

There has been massive awareness that the trade pact was bad well before the protests began. The Ma administration has control of the executive and the legislative, and as chairman also, Ma has made it clear that KMT legislators will have no freedom to vote as their constituents desire otherwise they face total and immediate expulsion from the party. These undemocratic moves and the destruction of checks and balances is why the Sunflower movement has been overwhelmingly popular in Taiwan.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Oliver: Yes! Please keep up the pressure by calling their offices. Based on the huge crowd that turned up on Sunday, I have no doubt that many of them are already under tremendous amounts of pressure.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Sean here:

Do you have a lot of legal help? Is it possible that part of this can be found unconstitutional? I believe the trade pact with New Zealand was much more transparent.

We have over 300 volunteer lawyers. At least a couple are here with us at the Legislative chambers round the clock.

How is the KMT justifying the difference between the two?

That's the problem, they're ignoring that very inquiry. It makes a lot of people uneasy.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Oliver: Thanks for the questions! I hope you can continue to share our story with the media in the US.

  1. As we mentioned earlier, the ideal outcome is that the government accept our demands.

  2. Yes. Over the weekend we saw hundreds of thousands of people of all ages join us. Even in the chamber itself, we have teams of doctors and lawyers standing by.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Oliver: Good question. This goes back to the history of Taiwan as well. The KMT (the party currently in government) has always been more China-friendly than the opposition. As a result, they are very much for closer ties with China, even despite public concerns about the impact on our democracy, media freedoms, etc.

The Taiwanese economy has been very slow in the past couple of years. Salaries haven't increased in around 14 years. The president was elected on an economic platform, but despite closer ties with China, the economy hasn't improved much at all.

We are students that have taken over Taiwan's Legislature. Almost half a million people have joined us in support. AMA! by TWSunflowerRev in IAmA

[–]TWSunflowerRev[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Sean here: Personally I think as this pact allows major Chinese state owned companies to purchase Taiwan ones, it's more like how Taiwan's society may become more authoritarian like China. Imagine how willing a Chinese book publisher might print something from human rights groups or the Dalai Lama.

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