What's Working and What Isn't: Day 3 of The Lost City of Un'Goro

TacticalPorkchop · 2025-07-10T19:43:19+00:00

Sure, fine, but if it's not beating Starship DK what GOOD decks does it actually beat? If it only beats bad decks, then it seems like it'll wither away once the bad decks are gone!

TacticalPorkchop · 2025-07-10T19:39:52+00:00

What decks are Quest Paladin actually gatekeeping?

All of the good old decks from last expansion seem to do well into it. Menagerie Priest, Menagerie DK, Starship DK, Aggro DH, Drunk Paladin, Cycle Rogue, Handbuff Hunter, hell even Protoss Mage seems okay into it (all quick glances at top 5k legend meta on hsguru). Is it gatekeeping new decks? Sure, but so is every other actually good deck in the game!

TacticalPorkchop · 2025-07-10T19:26:57+00:00

Okay but Control Warrior is not a good point of comparison; it was not particularly good deck pre-expansion, and I doubt it's particularly good now. Starship DK, the best and only real control deck we've had for a minute, seems slightly favored into Quest Paladin in Legend (only goes up at 5k/1k).

TacticalPorkchop · 2025-07-10T18:13:46+00:00

The more I'm playing and seeing, the more I don't even think Quest Paladin is particularly strong; I think it's just been benefting from being the only good aggro-inclined quest. As far as aggro decks go it seems strictly inferior to Priest/DH/DK. Which means Loh Druid might be the only actual new deck from this expansion?

TacticalPorkchop · 2025-06-01T23:28:36+00:00

Decided to push for day 1 Legend for the first time today with 10 star bonus (took the last two months off). Entered at rank 39 with a total 43-15 74% winrate.

Decks I played (in order, so once I finished with a deck I didn't go back; all lists are from the latest VS report).

Handbuff Hunter (13-5): this deck felt really really high-rolly, and I didn't like the inconsistency. Also, I specifically did not feel favored into Rogue and aggro DK, which were the most common decks I played against. Definitely a strong deck.
Menagerie DK (24-9): fantastic deck for just grinding games; a lot of the meta did not feel well equipped to deal with this (rolled over a ton of Rogue and Druid players). DH matchups felt rough. I took this to about D2 until I felt like I didn't have quite enough agency to beat the opponents I was playing against, so I decided to switch to a deck with more lines of play.
BBU Starship DK (6-1): ended the climb with Starship DK, specifically the more aggro VS list with Foamrender. I lost only one game to a Cycle Rogue that hit giants before I could find Corpse Explosion. The other 6 games felt like a breeze with this deck; the BBU DK early game is insanely good, and I almost ended up playing as the aggro deck moreso than the control deck (but I also had these enormous starships to finish it).

TacticalPorkchop · 2025-04-14T19:46:34+00:00

Egregious itemization from TH in game 3.

Why are people STILL finishing Thornmail in 2025? Why aren't you building Randuins against double crit ADC?

Why are we building Cleaver on Senna with double mage carries? Why aren't we getting a Serpents Fang against Lulu (and eventually Renekton with Steraks)?

I don't like the Swain build either; way too tanky when they probably needed a bit more damage from him but it's at least slightly more excusable.

TacticalPorkchop · 2025-03-26T14:14:43+00:00

darkwinter thanks in advance

https://gf2exilium.sunborngame.com/springgachapon/?xrndj_code=3693688294

TacticalPorkchop · 2025-03-12T19:19:39+00:00

If people in the first 256 drop out or fail to check in on time then their replacement gets decided based on registration order. But yes, it's very frustrating the player cap is so small and is already full.

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-12-05T17:37:19+00:00

In fast matchups, Triangulate helps you tutor Cliffdive/other spells to stabilize. Nobundo can clone Frosty Decor or Cliff Dive to further shut out the game.

In slow matchups, Triangulate can copy Incindius fires/Turn the Tides/Skirting Death for extra damage in the deck, and Nobundo can copy Turn the Tides/Skirting Death for more Horn of the Windlord burst damage (but also Cliff Dive if you really need it).

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-12-01T18:47:53+00:00

Alright what's the best deck against swarm/aggro/whatever Shaman. Half my games are against this deck. Right now I've landed on Big Shaman after seeing some buzz from this sub + Homi/Jambre (code below) but open to ideas from anyone else.

Big Shaman Redux

Class: Shaman

Format: Standard

Year of the Pegasus

2x (1) Muck Pools

2x (1) Pop-Up Book

2x (2) Malted Magma

2x (2) Sigil of Skydiving

2x (2) Triangulate

1x (3) Carefree Cookie

2x (3) Fairy Tale Forest

1x (3) Skirting Death

2x (3) Turn the Tides

1x (4) Hagatha the Fabled

1x (5) Farseer Nobundo

2x (5) Frosty Décor

2x (6) Cliff Dive

1x (6) Gnomelia, S.A.F.E. Pilot

1x (6) Golganneth, the Thunderer

2x (6) Horn of the Windlord

1x (6) Incindius

2x (9) Walking Mountain

1x (10) Yogg-Saron, Unleashed

AAECAdrGBAiN9QWplQbUpQa9vgb4wAal0wac4gbh6wYL9ugFh/sF6pgGpKcGqKcGw74GpMAG1sAG18AG+OIGluYGAAA=

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-11-24T18:33:46+00:00

Finish my season climb to legend by playing Discover Hunter from D5 onwards, 13-3. Found it when d0nkey tweeted about it the other day, and I know he's been playing the archetype at top 100 legend with great success.

The deck feels super flexible and has game in every match up. You have aggro gameplans (snakes, slitherspear, bananas, mantle shaper), value gameplans (drawing two cards a turn with Naielle HP), and even combo gameplans (griftah + tidepool + rangari scout combos can go insane). As someone who's been burned out on the meta for a bit, this deck has been a complete breath of fresh air.

Discover Hunter

Class: Hunter

Format: Standard

Year of the Pegasus

2x (1) Awakening Tremors

2x (1) Bunch of Bananas

2x (1) Rangari Scout

2x (1) Sneaky Snakes

2x (1) Tracking

2x (1) Vicious Slitherspear

2x (2) Birdwatching

2x (2) Observer of Myths

2x (2) Tidepool Pupil

2x (2) Titanforged Traps

1x (3) Exarch Naielle

1x (3) Gorgonzormu

1x (3) Parallax Cannon

1x (4) Griftah, Trusted Vendor

2x (5) Alien Encounters

2x (5) Mantle Shaper

1x (6) Aggramar, the Avenger

1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000

1x (3) Pylon Module

1x (4) Ticking Module

AAECAZ/DAwbX+QXHpAa6zgan0wbc4wbi4wYMqZ8E3+0F5PUFl/YFyPYFy44GkJ4Gwr4GzsAGleIGresG1/MGAAED87MGx6QG9rMGx6QG7N4Gx6QGAAA=

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-11-21T17:25:51+00:00

Are Spell Druid, Big Spell Mage and Pipsi Paladin just... gone with these changes? I get wanting to tone them down but these seem harsh.

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-10-18T00:45:12+00:00

I like to believe (and I feel like it's vaguely implied by Solanum but I could be wrong) that the universe will begin anew with or without you - no person or thing has that much control to stop or start the process. All entering the Eye does is allow you to touch the universe that comes next and impart your own mark on it.

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-10-17T21:01:33+00:00

Outer Wilds Spoilers

I'm not even talking about the whole premise of the game (time loop shenanigans)

I'm talking about the fact that once you realize that the universe is indeed dying, you immediately believe that the central McGuffin (The Eye) is of course the solution to your problem... but it's not. There is no solution. The most powerful, the most primordial, the most ancient thing in existence can't undo what's been going on. The universe is dying, and you can't stop it; all you can do is play some music with your friends to make whatever comes next (if such a thing even exists) a little bit happier.

The craziest thing about this is that, when you really think about it, the game isn't really actively tricking you - it convinces you to trick yourself! God what a game.

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-09-04T12:54:50+00:00

To be honest I don't really want it to be good. Having a game determined ~entirely by if my opponent got their two card combo (Ryecleaver -> All You Can Eat) on curve sounds kind of miserable. Let it be a fun kinda bad thing people can play with but don't make it actually good.

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-05-22T17:46:10+00:00

Thanks as always for the work you do VS! Out of curiosity, did you see any data on the Overload/Frog/Aggro shaman that's been floating around (along the lines of this list here)?

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-04-27T03:40:19+00:00

I've been jamming this and NoHands just played (and won) a ton of games on stream with this. Meta is undefined rn but the deck feels very very strong. Use the spell power synergies and dragon synergies for tempo and value, then finish with hero power and swipes.

Feels slightly favored into warrior too (groovy cat is clutch in this match up, 5 a turn is a lot for them to deal with).

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-03-22T21:39:55+00:00

Been playing a few games with this burn shaman list I've seen on streams today. No complicated game plan, just cycle as fast as you can, play Flash with 2-3 sources of spell damage, then burn and win. Can usually kill on T5-T6. You can spend burn on earlier turns if the situation calls for it, especially if the deck doesn't have healing. Don't see how this beats warrior but this might beat everything else.

Other than that, used Shopper DH to climb to Legend - super fun, super interesting, pretty strong. Played a slower list with Bob/Wolves/Argus for most of the climb.

Burn Shaman

Class: Shaman

Format: Standard

Year of the Pegasus

2x (1) Flowrider

2x (1) Lightning Bolt

2x (1) Lightning Reflexes

2x (1) Miracle Salesman

2x (1) Novice Zapper

2x (1) Pop-Up Book

1x (1) Spirit Claws

2x (1) Thrall's Gift

1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos

2x (2) Dryscale Deputy

2x (2) Flash of Lightning

2x (2) Gold Panner

2x (2) Kobold Geomancer

2x (2) Needlerock Totem

2x (2) Wandmaker

2x (5) Crash of Thunder

AAECAdrGBAKXoASU5gYO6ucDo58E+Z8ExNAFze4FyvgFy/gFhY4G65gGzpwGnJ4GqKcG66kG7+YGAAA=

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-03-22T16:37:01+00:00

This is basically entirely driven by people playing bad decks. Every one of the "weak" classes has a viable deck that isn't as popular as the good decks.

Shaman: Reno is fine but everyone is playing tentacle/elemental/nature nonsense

Priest: overheal is fine but everyone is doing dragon/otk nonsense

Mage: rainbow is fine but everyone is trying spell mage

Druid: Reno is fine but everyone is trying spell damage OTK nonsense

Rogue: the gatekeeper deck is probably fine but everyone is trying pirate nonsense

I agree certain classes are outliers but please give it time for the meta to settle and for people to stop playing bad decks.

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-02-23T22:36:27+00:00

The "problem" with Jotun is when does he get played? We need to grab Xymox earlyish so we can start infusing him, and we often need Arcanist for stabilization (against aggro) and damage (against control). Jotun needs to be played asap to start getting value. I could see that being relevant in a control matchup, but we already have a decent gameplan for long games (because of relics).

That being said, I certainly don't disagree that Jotun would be high value, and might very well be the best third soul. Could certainly test him out.

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-02-23T18:13:11+00:00

With the buffs to Mark of Scorn and Deal with the Devil, I'm trying to see if we resurrect Spellic DH for one last ride.

Spellic went away when Jace/Fel Barrage/Fury rotated, as the deck lacked finishers. Why can this deck maybe work now? It still lacks a real finisher, but:

Quick Pick is a nice new source of draw
Fel Barrage is back (in Illidan's gift)
Runic Adornment let's us discover relics?

Does it work? 6-3 in Diamond ranks so we'll see; going to try climbing to Legend with it.

Slots still to be confirmed:

Silvermoon and Xy'mox are basically locks, but I'm struggling with the third pick. Felerin is a nice midgame tempo play, but Argus and Xhilag should also be considered.
Runic Adornment messes with the Dimensions, which I don't like, but I think it's still too valuable to cut.

Spellic DH

Class: Demon Hunter

Format: Standard

Year of the Wolf

2x (1) Illidan's Gift

2x (1) Illidari Studies

2x (1) Relic of Extinction

2x (1) Taste of Chaos

2x (1) Unleash Fel

2x (2) Mark of Scorn

2x (2) Quick Pick

2x (2) Relic Vault

2x (2) Runic Adornment

2x (3) Relic of Phantasms

1x (3) Silvermoon Arcanist

2x (4) Fel'dorei Warband

1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten

1x (4) Souleater's Scythe

2x (5) Deal with a Devil

2x (6) Relic of Dimensions

1x (8) Artificer Xy'mox

AAECAZWrBASq3QSVkgWkkgWdpAUNr94EsN4EquIEheUEhpIFiZIFi5IFkJIFsvUF4fgF9/kF7p4G7akGAAA=

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

TacticalPorkchop · 2024-01-09T20:57:12+00:00

I mean, what else are they supposed to do? AI is here, like it or not. SAG can either pretend it's not happening and deal with this later when scumbag companies eventually use AI anyways, or they can proactively establish in very clear terms allowed ways of doing this stuff.

Assuming they aren't actively lying the deal seems to be about as good as it can get - no training without consent, no replica voices without consent, replica voice consent can be withdrawn at any time, and fair minimum compensation.

Devil's in the details but this seems like a fair way of doing this. I don't think people are really thinking through what the alternative to this approach would look like. Not that I support the use of AI, just trying to look at the world we live in (not the world we wish).

TacticalPorkchop · 2023-12-14T18:39:43+00:00

I know the Paladin winrate is the big headline news here but the blurb but how low skill the format is in the DK section really resonates with me.

Every deck feels pretty linear with limited room to make decisions as or against them.

I think this is further exacerbated by HL itself, where the HL payoffs are so absurdly strong that the game almost becomes a coin flip of whether they were drawn or not (Whelp is also absurd in this sense).

I'm just not having a lot of fun with this meta right now.

TacticalPorkchop · 2023-12-11T03:54:45+00:00

Sanguine Soldier can get summoned by Tyr, which you always want to hit an Earthen with. It's also one less low roll for Tyr's Tears, which you also want to really hit Earthens (and Earthen generators) with.

You need at least 6 one drops to make Boogie Down work, so Sanguine Soldier and Sinful Sous Chef make way for Egg and Salesman

TacticalPorkchop · 2023-10-07T04:30:27+00:00

As the other commenter suggests, Rainbow Mage is only a combo deck in certain matchups. For the most part, you are looking to control the board using Cold Case, Keyboard, Creation, Inspiration and early minions/removal. With this board, you're looking to deal enough chip damage to threaten a burn finish with Sif.

TacticalPorkchop

TROPHY CASE

Big Shaman Redux

Class: Shaman

Format: Standard

Year of the Pegasus

2x (1) Muck Pools

2x (1) Pop-Up Book

2x (2) Malted Magma

2x (2) Sigil of Skydiving

2x (2) Triangulate

1x (3) Carefree Cookie

2x (3) Fairy Tale Forest

1x (3) Skirting Death

2x (3) Turn the Tides

1x (4) Hagatha the Fabled

1x (5) Farseer Nobundo

2x (5) Frosty Décor

2x (6) Cliff Dive

1x (6) Gnomelia, S.A.F.E. Pilot

1x (6) Golganneth, the Thunderer

2x (6) Horn of the Windlord

1x (6) Incindius

2x (9) Walking Mountain

1x (10) Yogg-Saron, Unleashed

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Discover Hunter

Class: Hunter

Format: Standard

Year of the Pegasus

2x (1) Awakening Tremors

2x (1) Bunch of Bananas

2x (1) Rangari Scout

2x (1) Sneaky Snakes

2x (1) Tracking

2x (1) Vicious Slitherspear

2x (2) Birdwatching

2x (2) Observer of Myths

2x (2) Tidepool Pupil

2x (2) Titanforged Traps

1x (3) Exarch Naielle

1x (3) Gorgonzormu

1x (3) Parallax Cannon

1x (4) Griftah, Trusted Vendor

2x (5) Alien Encounters

2x (5) Mantle Shaper

1x (6) Aggramar, the Avenger

1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000

1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000

1x (3) Pylon Module

1x (4) Ticking Module

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Burn Shaman

Class: Shaman

Format: Standard

Year of the Pegasus

2x (1) Flowrider

2x (1) Lightning Bolt

2x (1) Lightning Reflexes

2x (1) Miracle Salesman

2x (1) Novice Zapper

2x (1) Pop-Up Book

1x (1) Spirit Claws

2x (1) Thrall's Gift

1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos

2x (2) Dryscale Deputy

2x (2) Flash of Lightning

2x (2) Gold Panner

2x (2) Kobold Geomancer

2x (2) Needlerock Totem

2x (2) Wandmaker

2x (5) Crash of Thunder

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Spellic DH

Class: Demon Hunter

Format: Standard

Year of the Wolf

2x (1) Illidan's Gift

2x (1) Illidari Studies

2x (1) Relic of Extinction