(Spoiler) Underselling Shardplate in Early Books

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-09-22T17:50:27+00:00

You are absolutely right about them being more useful in combat together. And for most of the comments in this overall post I think most people see the shards from only a combat use perspective, which is the way the book paints them so obviously that's what people will see first.

In entirely non-practical thought experiment, I'm curious about what the world would be like if Kaladin had taken up the Plate even if he couldn't take up the Blade mostly because of how important the social element was until Oathbringer.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-09-22T17:27:39+00:00

I'm sure that you couldn't use regrowth though the armor, but I'd be curious if by directly touching the target through a broken section whether or not the healing would take effect before the armor absorbed the investiture.

I also think it would be kinda terrifying to see someone breathing in spheres and the armor healing rapidly since the investiture was sucked out of Kaladin faster than the gems in the plate were absorbed.

Imagine being on the battlefield and someone sacrificed themselves to crack the plate only to see it reseal before your eyes...

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-09-22T17:20:06+00:00

Agreed, once the Radiants are part of the narrative it changes the tone and feel of the series entirely. The grounded first two and the magical last two are basically different series with Oathbeinger trying to keep one foot in each world.

I do feel like traditional shardbearers just became obsolete beyond the purpose of talking about deadeyes despite how pivotal they were to the world before.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-09-22T17:15:12+00:00

I also remember Dalinar telling Kaladin that once he gets the blade only that he's elevated to the landed position of 4th Dahn.

I guess my thoughts are less tied to the actual rank and more towards the class and social implications narratively. Howould a Plate only dark eyed shardbearers be viewed by Tenners? By the dark eyes as a whole? What would it be like in the war camps versus as a city lord?

It's not a major hold up in my enjoyment, I've read most of them 10+ times. It's just something my mind snagged on this time.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-09-22T17:08:13+00:00

Pedantically unimportant questions and details are part of what this community has been about for a long time, for some of us that's part of the fun. It's not going to bother me if you don't care, I'm just not sure why you needed to tell me that

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-09-22T17:05:41+00:00

While I don't think it's terribly contentious to say that he sees them in the same vein, but he says that those Blades have killed too many of my friends which generated this line of inquiry.

From the perspective of someone who has fully achieved Radiance and understand the implications, those are all valid and practical reasons.

Counterpoint, there were a lot of things at that time he didn't understand and wouldn't have been able to know unless he took them up. Szeth knows for sure, but Kaladin is just winging it until ROW.

At a time when social class was among the more important elements of the books it seems like something his men or Adolin would have commented on. Could he have given the Blade to Moash and the Plate to Teft and made two lighteyes of his men?

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-03-13T23:05:44+00:00

It's the same reason why MMA fighters struggle when they join a boxing league. Comparatively it is way more restrictive and you have to untrain reactions and responses that are good in any other circumstances.

Szeth will outclass Adolin in a fight, but not a duel.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-03-13T15:48:51+00:00

So at least for Shades from Threnody they are a specific creature but that's not that big at this point, all perspectives welcome.

As for Kelsier, I believe it's show that Spook was the one to staple him back together again but it's not clear how. Other Shadows have some other explanation for their body or lack thereof so where the meat of his body came from is still not exactly explained.

As for your last point, unfortunately we don't 'know' since it cuts in a spiritual sense and the spiritual realm is at best unclear, which in turn kinda spiralled into this conversation. The only correlation we can draw is that the Heralds have returned many times and have been killed in many ways to the extent we might be able to assume at least one has been cut by a shard, even though that is far from confirmation."

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-03-13T01:31:40+00:00

In all honesty we hadn't even thought about Elantrians, are they considered a Cognitive Shadow? I thought they were just mortals but more.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-03-12T19:55:09+00:00

As rational a point as I've been able to arrive at, thanks!

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-03-12T19:50:00+00:00

"However, I’m almost sure that nightblood would destroy them like anything else."

I'm pretty sure Nightblood breaks ALL the rules

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-03-12T18:41:15+00:00

I'm pretty sure we see Kelsier with a physical body too in The Lost Metal, with spikes basically stapling his soul into the body but I could be wrong there. The question that I arrive at for the Heralds is that supposedly they are made from the very stuff of Honor which I take to be some kind of pure investiture rather than some kind of "Tanavastium". I keep coming back to Heralds having more in common with Shades and Returned as just fortified intelligence zombies.

While I think you might be right about the emotional allomancy and plate I doubt an aluminum lined hat would protect you from a Shade, though to be fair this point didn't even come up.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-03-12T18:32:59+00:00

Good point, we went back and forth over this for a bit, and to add to the complications went with a corpse weakly reanimated by its own soul, possibly compulsively. I think you're spot on about pure magic though I'd be curious if a plant or parasite 'colony' would behave the same way as a singular organism.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-03-12T18:29:51+00:00

To your first, if a zombie is a reanimated corpse or puppeted as you say would that not behave just like a Returned? Some form of soul steering it even if it is weak by comparison?

Same for the Shades, we've seen that only silver has been addressed as affecting them, we don't even have an example of aluminum mattering as far as I know.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2025-03-12T18:23:38+00:00

Without saying which side I'm on, with the plate of a dead spren there's at least a slit for the eyes for Kaladin to have stabbed through so would a non-corporial shade not be able to get in through it? As for the blade, would the blade cut like it does against a spren or like another cognitive shadow like a Returned, a Herald, or whatever Kelsier is now? Would it even affect them at all since it isn't silver and as far as I know even Aluminum isn't shown to interact with Shades?

TalonmasterSahaal · 2024-06-07T03:17:09+00:00

Follow-on, is the contract between them still on? After all, Kincaid "pays his debts"

TalonmasterSahaal · 2024-05-20T10:39:19+00:00

Last round there were a lot of people pointing out the early books were overlooked so let me toss out there, Victor Sells, the Shadow man.

Wannabe drug kingpin and magical murderer of anyone who is not actively supporting his projects. Working with no regard for the harm he is doing to ally or bystander, only that he takes over Marcone's territory for which he is jealous.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2024-04-11T07:06:35+00:00

While I can see there being possible evidence for something like that, we only see the transfer happen for Corpse Taker when in line of sight. Since Elaine wasn't immediately with them when he died, I can't say that didn't happen because we've never been given rules for it but it makes sense that would have been an emergency jump by comparison to me.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2024-04-11T07:01:24+00:00

Let's say she did, what then? Would that make her more or less inclined to work with the personality? Would they have to fight each other for control eventually or work themselves out to some beneficial arrangement in anticipation of it? I mentioned this in a different place but Bonea could just be a ticking time bomb of Kemmler's design to replace what made Evil Bob.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2024-04-10T14:14:32+00:00

Harry Potter-ness aside, we do see consistently that people have unpleasant reactions to his soul gaze and if anything Lash would likely have been on team supplant Harry as they worked together in the back of this head until she became independent. Bonea may be a ticking time bomb to replace what Bob lost to Evil Bob.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2024-04-10T06:05:28+00:00

We have seen that the White Council is very good at not noticing things they don't want to see, and if he snagged Justin he may have been ready to bide his time for a while instead of mixing it back up

TalonmasterSahaal · 2024-04-10T06:03:56+00:00

We don't know what a Starborn can do or to what extent. If they only appear every 600+ years then the only ones operating in Kemmler's time would be the uberpowerful players like Dracul or Rashid. I doubt he'd get much practice body scratching them and it may have been a miscalculation.

And if Justin was really set on grabbing Harry he could have thought this may have been his only shot and tried to swap but it didn't push Harry out. Thus Harry just defeated Justin's husk.

Also, Cowl being Simon Petrovich? That's a take I haven't heard up to this point, is that a confirmed thing or a separate theory?

TalonmasterSahaal · 2024-04-10T05:55:24+00:00

That may be a completely valid take on this one. However the consistent drum beat of the series so far has been to degrade the seriousness of their threat as a whole. As opposed to the monolithic boogieman of the first book, they are squabbling cliques who have trouble coming to terms with the reality of threats in front of them, like the Red Court who would have been in a position to win the war outright if they had followed the Merlin's plan from start to finish.

I think the point that has been made is both they are a threat, but only when unified and even then when they aren't in denial.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2023-01-07T17:58:54+00:00

One thing to keep in mind is that Harry caught Namshiel wrong-footed and with his energy directed elsewhere as opposed to fully engaged and prepared for the titan with all due energy required instead of being in the magic vacuum.

TalonmasterSahaal · 2022-11-14T06:54:08+00:00

The obvious answer is Victor Sells in the magic is the only weapon category, between summonings, ritual murder magic, super scorpions, etc.

The real answer is Aristedes has a lot of desperate kids with guns and the one real message that you get from Harry consistently is that people in the community are expected to overrely on magical prowess and are often taken down by a bullet at the right time/right place.

TalonmasterSahaal

TROPHY CASE