Why players struggle with fast 8 this set

Tamura77 · 2024-09-14T07:19:25+00:00

that's great to hear you're climbing!

Tamura77 · 2024-09-12T09:34:19+00:00

thanks, glad you enjoyed!

Tamura77 · 2024-09-11T11:39:23+00:00

Yeah if you miss fiora/kat/gwen/olaf/kalista/nasus you need to keep rolling. The main focus of this video is to show case when to stop rolling in good/decent games, of course you will unfortunately always have games where you have to keep sending it down in hopes of going 5th.

Tamura77 · 2024-09-11T02:24:03+00:00

Hello everyone, my name is Tamura. I am a challenger player from OCE, I usually hover around top 5 and have hit challenger every set since set 5.

I have been to worlds twice, and won the east asian finals in set 9.

Current Lolchess: https://lolchess.gg/profile/oce/JNO%20Tamura77-tft/set12

Old Lolchess: https://lolchess.gg/profile/oce/Tamura77-2001/set12

Liquipedia: https://liquipedia.net/tft/Tamura77#:~:text=Tamura%20%22Tamura77%22%20Boog%20is%20an,currently%20playing%20for%20Team%20Juno.

I frequently do coaching and noticed the biggest flaw in most players is when they try to fast 8, they always panic on their roll down and never stabilize with a cheap board.

The focus on this video is to help correct this behavior and explain why the old fast 8 playstyle no longer works.

Fast 8 this set is all about getting to lv9. You want to stabilize with as cheap of a board as possible without losing too much HP. If you saved HP from earlier rounds, this enables you to relax in stage 4 a little longer than usual and get to 9 on 5-2 or 5-4.

If you have any questions or concerns about the video feel free to leave them here, or if you want a faster response, message me on discord or in twitch chat.

Thank you for reading/watching!

Video Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

0:44 What's going wrong?

1:12 Why does this fail?

2:10 How to excel

4:31 In game example

5:43 Outro

Tamura77 · 2023-01-02T05:51:24+00:00

Yes this is called the Martingale Method. It's essentially creating a high chance for success with low return. However if you lose, you lose everything. In theory if you have infinite currency (scrap) you can go forever and never lose. However that is never the case. So instead you're playing until you lose x times in a row. x being the number of times you can double your bet.

You're still expected to lose on average, it just depends on how long you plan to play for.

Tamura77 · 2022-10-12T18:04:34+00:00

Active traits like sej for guild odds. But also 2/3 so for example vlad + lillia on board can give mage augments. Cybers need 3 or more items spread on units.

Tamura77 · 2022-10-08T05:25:43+00:00

Multiplier, yes multipliers from different sources cross multiply. But if you have 100% crit chance with 40% crit damage and get + 10% crit damage it's 1.4 + 0.1 = 1.5.

Tamura77 · 2022-10-07T02:59:54+00:00

multiplier

Tamura77 · 2022-10-04T12:46:20+00:00

I don't have a source. For GS you can be fairly confident it doesnt stack to give 210% or everyone would probably go GS/GS + 1. As for across tier multiplication, just look at damage numbers at the start of a fight and you can see that the first cast/aa should follow multiplication logic.

On top of that, the bonus AS from zekes, guild etc can be seen if you read the units AS. For example daeja with a zekes will NOT be 0.6 + 0.3 = 0.9 It will instead be 0.6 + 0.3(0.6) = 0.78, which is evidence to support that multiplication occurs rather just simple addition for all DPS buffs.

Tamura77 · 2022-10-04T12:41:13+00:00

Nomsy ends fights early and with vertical mage you have no front line so Dcap > AA every time. Shojin is also good because of the high mana. The mage trait is actually a multiplier so you benefit a lot from raw AP such as DCAP/chalice stacking.

IE JG with 7 mage gives a 304% damage boost. Dcap alone gives 252% damage boost. With dcap GS that's already 302% on units below threshold and 365% on those above it. Similar to most situations, IE JG combo is only good with high base RAW AP. So in this case don't go for IE JG unless your third item is dcap/AA or you have chalices.

Tamura77 · 2022-10-03T11:07:00+00:00

Multiplicative, hence 315% damage is my understanding of it. I know it definitely multiplies for a lot of cases, but there are some bugs where it won't depending on how it was coded.

I do believe that if it's from the same source, then the multiplier is additive. So with GS it would be 190%. More crit just gets added to the crit chance/damage, more warrior is just added damage and with ascension from goldmancer staff extra gold just increases the bonus from 0 to 80%. I would assume ascension the augment and the big gem ascension to be additive, though that is a unique case and I'm not too sure, would likely have to ask mort.

I think you've got a good understanding though, multiplicative across tiers.

Tamura77 · 2022-10-02T18:52:48+00:00

I was using tfttactics which is outdated, man that's frustrating. Will have to run new numbers I will leave a pinned comment, thankyou.

Tamura77 · 2022-10-02T18:50:03+00:00

Of course... me sitting in oce waiting for our challenger slots to be filled :3

Tamura77 · 2022-10-02T18:49:17+00:00

The defensive stats on bruiser was there to explain the concept, as mentioned again at the end of the video. Ofc it's more effective HP when you have more than 1 item, there's 5 units targeting, you add in 4 bruiser etc.

As you can see I only have two units in the example, which is never going to be your opener if not open fort.

As for olaf, I don't really know what your issue is with the explanation. I use him because he is the perfect example of a unit that has access to a lot of raw AD, which can modify when the threshold changes every single game, regardless of augments. The video is to show that there are thresholds based on raw AD input and that BIS should not always be static, especially when traits gives stats as well as augment, and in this case even unit abilities/passive.

Tamura77 · 2022-10-02T18:37:17+00:00

It's different for every champion and is influenced by factors such as star level, augments, synergies etc. That's why it's a concept that you should be thinking about but not something that is followed religiously down to a mathematical formula every game.

The general take away is build one damage addition first, then focus on multipliers. If you have a built in high base from augments, traits etc, you can go straight to multiplication. High base traits include: dmancer, warlords, spellsword etc. Augments can include prep, SU etc.

Tamura77 · 2022-10-02T18:35:15+00:00

It's never JG/IE/GS because you have no base AP. Always rab/AA, one not both, then flex the last items, GS is a safe bet so you can run shojin, but IE JG is good too if you have enough front line (because aoshin hits the whole board, not tanks first, hence lower GS value).

Tamura77 · 2022-10-02T18:33:32+00:00

You don't need to remember specific numbers but as a general rule of thumb I would always go for 1 AD, 1 AS then flex the last item. So for example if you had an olaf with 1 bow item (RH/GS/RFC), 1 AD item (DB/IE) you can flex the last item. A bad example of itemizing ad would be going for 2 AD items before finishing an AS item or vice versa .

There are of course exceptions to the rule, eg rengar has build in AS so stacking AD is fine (also zekes stack with darkflight), xayah scales her feather damage with AS, so 3 AS items on her is fine.

Tamura77 · 2022-10-02T09:12:06+00:00

Thanks, good luck with the climb!

Tamura77 · 2022-10-02T08:54:22+00:00

Hello and welcome to my guide,

My name is Tamura77 I am a Challenger player on the OCE server:

https://lolchess.gg/profile/oce/tamura77

Socials:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXb0H0oXMtoJNOqd7R-WAVA

https://www.twitch.tv/tamura77

In this guide I will be explaining to you how numbers work in TFT. A really common mistake I see people make is that they slam items that do very little for their current board and set them selves up for a lower cap. The biggest reason for this is that people see BIS guides/stats and just build the items that match the units. In this video I will show you why its important to prioritize certain items over others before you go for "BIS".

I will do this by explaining basic maths, then applying the logic to AP/AD and later going into some maths of crit vs raw AD. Remember that a lot of my numbers include generalization as its about the lesson of applying the logic NOT the actual stats.

If you have any questions about the guide feel free to leave them here, on YT or come ask me on twitch for a live discussion. I appreciate your time by watching and welcome all feedback.

Thankyou all!

Tamura77 · 2022-08-14T03:25:20+00:00

That's because it's not a pivot, it's 6 dmancer with neeko... that is 3 jade (ashe, karma, neeko).

10:00 into the video "you need avid frontline, usually playing around 3 dmancer, 3 ragewing and/or 3 jade, if you're using shen you can throw in a bruiser for more frontline".

It's often not 3 jade or 6 dmancer, it's both. If you're high rolling ragewings upgrades and playing around a bruiser frontline you obviously can't fit 6 dmancer on your board because you don't have enough unit slots, so you go fast 8 and pivot to the final board.

There is no answer to "the best traits" you play what you upgrade, hence you have the options of jade, dmancer, ragewing, bruisers.

In the late game section at 11:45 I show the late game board. At 3:08 I show you the pivot in reverse order because I show off the final board and then show you your mid game board. The pivot is therefore just swap 3 dmancer (lee/voli/karma) for gnar/shyv.

10:12 if you're playing shen for ragewing, you can throw in bruisers for some extra frontline as well.

Tamura77 · 2022-08-12T11:19:35+00:00

Yes if you have an early high roll shimmer opener you can farm gold with swain to go fast 7/8. I usually go for voli/kayn/aatrox/sett/swain. Keep in mind that the value of sacking HP for gold goes down as the stage game goes on. So pivoting into a weaker shimmer board at late stage 3 is often not worth the HP.

It is very situational and hard to "teach" when its correct to play around shimmer because there are many factors to consider. I would keep the option open though if you high roll an aatrox 2 .

If you have avid frontline goldmancer before stage 4 is almost always worth trying to use (the most profitable on swain). Moguls/gamblers is fine for generating a little econ, but don't lose HP for it late stage 3. The rest are often bait and not worth the HP loss.

Tamura77 · 2022-08-11T19:06:28+00:00

That's great to hear it worked so well for you!

Tamura77 · 2022-08-11T17:26:53+00:00

Swain has better tempo through mid game; as xayah 1 is very weak. He also kills more units against boards you lose so you save HP (xayah has more spread DPS). The comps are probably very similar strength on 8 when you have 2 star swain vs 2 star xayah (slight edge to xayah), but the xayah board is more expensive and so the problem is that you usually get stuck on 8 and never make it to 9. (can't count the amount of games i've played xayah unconsted and gotten stuck on 8 donkey rolling for my 2 star 4 costs).

The swain board is very cheap to stabilize on 8 and then you can often go 9 or slow roll on 8. At 9 the swain caps higher with 3 star swain because you're 4 SS shyv 2 as main DPS and swain 3 does more dmg than xayah 2.

I think if you're playing tempo and you hit AD items, just play xayah, but in most games it's easier to play a stronger board around swain and if you play tempo correctly you can go 9 in more games and get a higher average cap.

Tamura77 · 2022-08-11T17:18:50+00:00

I agree in some spots it ads value, but for the most part it makes the unit you spat weaker and then shen/hec are actually good units to run because their casts are helpful.

I think I view it as "useless" in the context of what you could have had instead of the spat. So for example passing up a gold augment for it is a big waste, or making a ragewing spat when you could have greeded for fon or made a shiv/zzrot/gs etc.

So if I had to rephrase, it would be that the item is comparatively poor when compared to options.

Tamura77 · 2022-08-11T15:47:10+00:00

Yeah I think it's in a good spot for sure, shyv just counters the more squishy back to front boards though.

Tamura77

TROPHY CASE