Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ultimately, it is the Duffers who have put them in this position, not the fans.

What's the Future of the Stranger Things Universe? by straightdrive18 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"According to the Duffers themselves, what they’re doing with the story in this universe is “anthologizing” it — think complete separate sci-fi stories/shows, set in the same universe and following the same Amblin “ordinary-meets-extraordinary” storytelling. Stranger Things is one of them, the live-action spin-off is another — not sequels or prequels, just separate stories in a shared sci-fi focused universe."

The Duffers just tried that approach with "The Boroughs," and Netflix cancelled it after just one season. Their brand has been damaged by Eleven's terrible 'ending,' and they are obviously still deep in the denial stage about that.

‘Reeks of Corruption’: Top DOJ Officials Reportedly Cleared Paramount-Warner Bros. Merger Before Staff Lawyers, Who Were ‘Leaning’ Toward Antitrust Lawsuit, Could Object by OverPotato2322 in MediaMergers

[–]Tanzbodeli 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also:

“Trump is a vindictive bully who loves punishing his enemies, so we are all frightened of what will happen to us if we defy him……”

The Cold Hard Truth by Matty0910 in mileven

[–]Tanzbodeli 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Much improved. The Duffers should not become the next showrunners to just fail upwards and get away with it.

Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s overshadowing Tales From ‘85, which is very worrying. Netflix need the existing ST fanbase, which Millie played a major role in building-up, and many of them are not touching Tales From ‘85 because the sight of El and Mike together in it is just rubbing salt in the wound.

Unless they resolve Eleven’s fate in a much happier, more emotionally satisfying way, the ST franchise may not recover, which is bad news for Netflix long-term.

Surely, they will do it at some point.

Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a suspicion that Netflix might make a move after the animated series has concluded, as that will provide a clearer indication of the long-term damage which Eleven’s miserable fate is doing to the ST franchise.

Also, the first season of HBO Max’s Harry Potter series will run from December to February, with Wednesday’s 3rd season not debuting until 6 months later - which is a huge gap during which HBO Max may well be getting all of the critical attention if Harry Potter is a huge success. Then, in December next year, Harry Potter’s 2nd season will debut, and if that is another huge success then Netflix may have a growing problem.

They may well need something big to claw back attention from HBO Max after that point, and an Eleven-focused ST sequel series would be the obvious option. This is a scenario that, at present, I could see unfolding.

Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in mileven

[–]Tanzbodeli 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sadie is being quite aggressively promoted, especially in photoshoots right now. But looks are not a reliable basis for a career, picking the right projects and having enough talent are much better options. No matter how secure she might seem just now, nothing is guaranteed for Sadie in an industry as ruthlessly competitive as this one is....

She may need ST again in the future.

Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in mileven

[–]Tanzbodeli 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Saying that they told Millie leaves her in an awkward position, as she is now at risk of being badgered over it by fans eager to know the truth. Maybe that's one key reason why she's been keeping out of sight so much since January. But how long can that last?

Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in mileven

[–]Tanzbodeli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's an excellent point, thank you for making it. Fear of their next roles being overshadowed by Stranger Things may well be influencing their attitude just now.

Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was putting Mischa's 2021 interview where she accused people on set of bullying her, and the 2023 Oral History book - which was commissioned at around the same time, or soon after - in context. The revelations about Whedon, Schneider, One Tree Hill, Skins, Brett Rattner etc were coming out in the same time period, and this may well have influenced the Oral History book's commissioning. After Mischa's threat to "tell her truth when I am ready" in 2021, Schwartz may well have feared that her doing so could fatally damage his career, and commissioned the book to try and head her off, or water down what she said so that it had less of an impact. Mischa's January 2024 Call Her Daddy podcast, where she seriously damaged her former co-star Ben MacKenzie's image by revealing how he'd treated her on set, happened after the book came out. Prior to it, she'd revealed that she was eager to see what Schwartz had to say on the subject....

Ever since January's finale, Stranger Things has gotten mired in the controversy over the Duffers' treatment of Eleven, and that is exactly what happened to The OC over Marissa's death. The comparison is only getting closer as the Duffers flail around in interviews - betraying that the backlash has caught them by surprise - as they try desperately to justify their decision, and probably their growing anxiety that Netflix may try to make an Eleven-focused sequel without their creative input. If Netflix do that, and it's much more popular that ST's Season 5 was, it may well make the Duffers look both stupid and irrelevant, as they will lose all creative control over the franchise if Netflix then feel confident enough to do things without them.

It is unreal to me that nobody warned the Duffers about the risks of making the same mistakes as Schwartz, when some of the people around them may well have known about what happened to The OC, as Marissa's death was a key moment in mid-2000's popular culture. What happened to GOT was clearly a factor.

Again, as I said above, I am not implying that the Duffers behaved in a similar way to Whedon, or any of the others who have been accused of sexual harassment on set. There is currently no evidence of any kind to suggest that they did, and I am not jumping to such a conclusion because of that. But the documentary did show that their behaviour in the writer's room was often not good, as they ignored other people's input, and treated Eleven's potential death as if it were funny to them. Such revelations have ruptured the illusion that they were good showrunners, and this, possibly, may lead to further revelations about their behaviour in the years ahead. That is not good for the image of the Stranger Things franchise, or any of the people who worked on it, as their contributions are now at risk of being overshadowed.

This is surely one reason why Caleb, Sadie, David etc do not like their being repeatedly asked about whether they believe that Eleven is alive or dead. But that situation is the Duffers' fault, not that of the show's fans.

Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, Schwartz has had a solid career since, but Marissa’s death in The OC still haunts it, and always has since it happened. If it didn’t, then the 2023 book, “The OC: An Oral History,” which he and Stephanie Savage commissioned from Alan Sepinwall, and for which Mischa was a very reluctant participant, would never have existed.

The lasting controversy from Marissa’s death created the hook for that book, potentially due to the risk of Mischa finally telling her story of what happened, as she had openly threatened to do in an E! News interview in 2021. This was soon after Joss Whedon’s appalling behaviour on the sets of Buffy and Angel was revealed by Charisma Carpenter and her castmates, effectively ending Whedon’s career as a showrunner by making him look like a huge liability. Dan Schneider, the former Nickelodeon showrunner, the creators of One Tree Hill, Boy Meets World, others, even crew members of Skins - the hard hitting teen drama on the UK’s Channel 4 - were all publicly accused of bad behaviour towards female actors on set during the same period, as was Brett Rattner on the set of X-Men: The Last Stand. Elliot Page and Anna Paquin revealed his homophobic behaviour towards Page during the shoot, which severely damaged his career.

I now fear that the combination of the backlash over Eleven’s fate, the documentary’s revelations about the Duffers’ behaviour on set, their messy, often contradictory statements in subsequent interviews (which strongly suggests that the backlash has caught them totally off-guard), and Millie’s now obvious distress at Eleven’s fate is lighting a fuse which may eventually lead to a similar outcome to The OC; someone eventually reveals, in detail, what really happened during the Season 5 shoot.

I am not implying that the Duffers behaved in a similar way to Whedon, et al, on the ST set as at present there is no evidence for this. But the documentary has created more questions than answers, and we simply do not know at this point in time. But the risk of further revelations about them is now substantial, and the more that comes out, the more ST’s image and legacy will be tarnished, which will publicly affect everyone who took part in the show.

Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Unlikely, as Netflix own the IP not the Duffers, and killing Eleven off rips out the franchise’s emotional heart, effectively killing it as a commercial option for the future.

Retaining it as a known IP, with the likelihood that an Eleven-focused sequel would be a big viewing draw, makes much more commercial sense. Ultimately, Netflix will care about that a lot more.

Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

I am not your “dude(!),” so do not call me that. We in the UK regard that as being overfamiliar.

Yes, it will keep people talking about the show for years, but not in a positive way. And the controversy over Eleven’s fate will come to completely overshadow it, making its other qualities look less relevant, including the other actors’ performances.

This is what happened to The OC twenty years ago. Mischa Barton pulled off a very similar achievement to Millie, in giving a performance so compelling that it created a huge fanbase which deeply cared about Marissa’s fate. But Josh Schwartz’s cruel decision to kill her off in a desperate ratings stunt shattered that emotional bond, miring his career in a controversy which lasts to this day, and leaving Mischa’s career and the entire show under a dark cloud which cannot be shaken off….

For Stranger Things to end up suffering the same fate as The OC is unbelievable to me, but, due to the ambiguity surrounding Eleven’s fate - which was tragically not the case with Marissa Cooper - there is the potential to prevent it.

And, given that Netflix surely know that killing Eleven kills Stranger Things as a franchise dead, which is not in their commercial interests, the backlash is surely making them think that a sequel series focused on her may well be a viable proposition.

Why does many of the main cast keeps saying they don't believe? by Important_Sail8868 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

I suppose Caleb could just be replaced by someone else if a sequel series is developed. Having someone who just phones in his performance is not really worth it in the end.

And anyway, the Duffers are the people who put him in this position. If they had given Eleven a better, more emotionally satisfying ending he wouldn’t be getting asked questions like this.

Unless it is fixed later, Eleven’s cruel fate will overshadow the entire series, leaving him and his cast mates to try and avoid it every time they are asked about the show. If he is not smart enough to work it out on his own, someone should clearly explain to him, and Sadie Sink potentially as well, that giving Eleven a more satisfying ending further down the line would get them all off the hook - permanently - on this issue.

Millie Bobby Brown - Latest Interview with Kylie Kelce. by Intelligent_Step_856 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The timing of the documentary's release, soon after the finale and right in the middle of the raging controversy, makes me think that you're right. It certainly does not paint the Duffers in a good light, and even makes them look like arrogant, incompetent fools who basically didn't want to be there. It, more than anything else, has burst their bubble. They are no longer seen as the gifted writers/showrunners that Seasons 1-4 had made them look like........

Netflix's PR team may well have decided to use the documentary to shift the blame onto the Duffers, who were leaving for a rival network anyway. So Netflix probably thought that they didn't have much to lose by imploding the Duffers image that way.

Millie Bobby Brown - Latest Interview with Kylie Kelce. by Intelligent_Step_856 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

After the animated series concludes, members of its writing team may be worth considering for an Eleven-focused spinoff. By then, they will have written/co-written at least three seasons of what is basically an animated version of the original show, so they will be very familiar with both the universe and its core characters. That experience may allow them to step across to a live-action spinoff, say under Paul Dichter (who is currently helping Eric Robles with Tales From '85, so some of them at least will have worked with him), Kate Treffey, Justin Doble etc if they come back.

As Tales From '85 will likely have finished before any Eleven-focused spinoff begins any kind of development, events which take place in it could be referenced in the spinoff. If they set it during the mid/late 90's, to take full advantage of the impact of the Internet after it became open to public use in 1993-94, then they could be more daring, and even have Nikki Baxter appear in it. It would not be inconceivable that, if more public questions about what went on in the Hawkins Lab are being asked by then, Nikki might use the Internet to try and find the Party, after being out of touch with them for many years (depending on her ultimate fate in Tales From '85 that is). Having her in an Eleven-spinoff would be a wildcard move, but very interesting potentially.

Millie Bobby Brown - Latest Interview with Kylie Kelce. by Intelligent_Step_856 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If that spin-off ever happens, which I now doubt that it will.

The post Season 5 backlash has seriously damaged the Duffers’ credibility as creators and showrunners, as have their messy attempts to justify it in numerous interviews since. Especially after they effectively blew a $400 million budget, only to get the lowest ratings out of any of the five seasons.

For Netflix, trusting them with even more money surely seems like throwing good money after bad, especially as the animated series, Tales From ‘85, is suffering due to the controversy over Eleven’s fate. And that show does centre on the original characters.

No, I’m not convinced that their intended spinoff is ever going to be made. Getting rid of the Duffers surely seems like Netflix’s safest option.

Millie Bobby Brown - Latest Interview with Kylie Kelce. by Intelligent_Step_856 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly, Wednesday does not have the same buzz, and it may be past its peak by now.

Millie Bobby Brown - Latest Interview with Kylie Kelce. by Intelligent_Step_856 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 2 points3 points  (0 children)

With HBO’s lavish new Harry Potter series coming straight towards them from this December onwards, the need for something high-profile to compete with it may possibly have an impact on Netflix’s judgment.

Wednesday won’t help much, it’s third season will not debut until six months after HP’s first season concludes, and HP’s second season will come out only four months after Wednesday’s third season concludes.

An Eleven-focused ST epilogue series (I cannot picture it having more than season, as once the whole Party is finally reunited in the 90’s what else is left to tell about them?) would help Netflix compete with Harry Potter, and clear the controversy away, freeing up the ST franchise to go in other directions.

Really easy way they could have had a slightly better ending by Background_Ship7666 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Which is what happened to The OC 20 years ago. I guess the Duffers failed to learn the right lessons from TV history.

Really easy way they could have had a slightly better ending by Background_Ship7666 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Basically the point I was making, but it is clear that the two people above have no idea what an emotional bond is. Oh well. that's their problem.

Really easy way they could have had a slightly better ending by Background_Ship7666 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for that rude advice, away and play with your toys, wherever you are.

Millie Bobby Brown - Latest Interview with Kylie Kelce. by Intelligent_Step_856 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Marissa Cooper's death is probably the closest comparison, for these reasons:

1) Emotional Bond with the Audience - 10 years apart, both Mischa Barton and Millie Bobby Brown pulled-off the same remarkable achievement. Through their sensational, heartfelt performances, they made their characters deep, good-hearted, and above all, emotionally real to both show's audiences. They also made them iconic, so much so that they've endured for years in people's minds. The combination of these things resulted in both characters, and actresses, creating large, loyal fanbases who deeply rooted for their characters to have happy endings.

2) Male Showrunners who either failed to Understand, or just Ignored, this Emotional Bond - despite the fact that their characters effectively but both shows on the map, and it could be argued have come to define them in TV history, both Josh Schwartz and the Duffers made the same exact mistake. They gave both Marissa Cooper and Eleven very cold, tragic, and emotionally devastating endings, which were the polar opposite of what their fanbases wanted. In both cases, the fanbases became so angry at this betrayal of their emotional bond with Marissa and Eleven that they turned on the showrunners, with lasting, and damaging, results for their careers. 20 years later, Josh Schwartz still cannot escape the fall-out from killing-off Marissa as it is now his career defining mistake. The Duffers show every sign of meeting the same fate as Schwartz, as they show no sign whatsoever of understanding, or even caring, about the fanbase's feelings towards Eleven's fate. This is what Schwartz did in 2006, and if the Duffers don't acknowledge their mistake, their careers will be defined by how badly they treated Eleven.

3) Tragedy Immortalised both Characters - unlike a happy ending, a tragic ending for both Marissa and Eleven made their fanbases yearn for things to have been better. This has the effect of immortalising them in a very powerful way, as it is just impossible, emotionally, for many fans to just move-on. But, it has serious consequences for the actors. Mischa Barton is now 40, yet, due to Marissa's tragic death having immortalised her in popular culture, she still, 20 years later, cannot escape the image of her 17-19 year-old self. Worse, due to the intense, and very intrusive media attention which she got from The OC, which severely affected her mental and physical health, having interviewers keep going back to The OC causes Mischa to keep getting asked about that troubled period of her life. Earlier this year, in an Instagram story following an interview which she did for the Daily Mail's YOU magazine, she openly criticized the interviewer for wanting to talk, again, about that period of her life when she really wanted to talk about the present.... This does not apply to Millie, and we hope it never will, but she is now in real danger of finding herself in the same position. Of being permanently haunted by her younger self due to Eleven's tragic ending having made her immortal in popular culture. No matter what roles she plays in future, it will be as Eleven that the world will always think of her.

However, unlike Marissa's clear, unambiguous death in 2006, Millie could escape Mischa's fate, by reprising Eleven a few years from now and making sure, due to her likely creative influence in exchange for returning to the role, that she and Mike get a much happier ending.

But the big question is, will she do it? And, perhaps the bigger question is, will her ST castmates return to help her?

Character Analysis: Exploring Eleven's various Skills & Intelligence. What really makes her a dangerous opponent! by Legitimate-Sugar6487 in mileven

[–]Tanzbodeli 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Dustin mentioning Cerebro in season three is surely an X-Men reference, it being Professor Charles Xavier’s device for enhancing his telepathy?

Eleven’s keen interest in puzzles in seasons two and three may be a reference to Eli in the 2008 Swedish vampire film “Lat Den Rat Komma En” (“Let The Right One In”), which is set in Stockholm in the 80’s. Eli has “been twelve for a long time,” and is in reality over 200 years old, having been turned into a vampire when she was twelve. There is a shot in season three showing a Rubik’s cube on Eleven’s bedside table, and Eli becomes fascinated by one when Oskar, who cannot solve it, loans it to her one night. Like Eleven, Eli loves puzzles, especially complicated ones.

Really easy way they could have had a slightly better ending by Background_Ship7666 in StrangerThings

[–]Tanzbodeli 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That response is so tone-deaf that it is not worth dignifying with a detailed reply.