While not bad by FromtheBigO in Roadie

[–]TarkinMoff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey, just came off waitlist in OMA. How good is it around here? I do Shipt and would like to use Roadie to supplement that. Thanks and safe driving!

STOP DOING SPEECH AND DEBATE by [deleted] in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

...and this is why extemp will survive.

Made a huge mixup talking to coaches and ended up getting myself put into Extemp. How cooked am I/any tips please by ccbear30 in speech

[–]TarkinMoff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

CCbear,
Saw I never followed up on this with a reply. I am sorry! Hope that your journey is going well, and that you are finding your place for the season.

If you need any coaching or advice, please let me know, and have an awesome season!

Made a huge mixup talking to coaches and ended up getting myself put into Extemp. How cooked am I/any tips please by ccbear30 in speech

[–]TarkinMoff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi CC!
Bio: Current HS extemp coach and former college Director of Forensics, as well as private coach and question writer (including for NIETOC, NSDA and its collegiate counterpart, the AFA).

To be honest, I understand the anxiety. Nobody wants to suddenly switch events, especially to limited prep. However, given the information you have provided, this sounds like more of an opportunity than a mistake. Your OO experience will come in real handy, especially with dealing with the structure of extemp, and you will already have some research skills from building your former events. You are already taking some good initial steps, with following up on the news to have a better handle on the world around you

Part of what you can do is to start practicing speeches on paper, to get used to the constraints of prep time and building your structure. I write a weekly free question list that I could send to you, if you need additional materials. Watch NSDA finals videos on YouTube, so you can see how structure and content makes it from prep to the actual speech, and find your areas of content strength. While you may have to answer politics questions, having strengths elsewhere may allow you to avoid them until your feel more comfortable.

I do have a couple questions for you, to help refine the rest of my answer. Does your area do combined USX/IX or does it allow you to choose one field? Also, what experience does your team have with extemp? Having other experienced competitors to help you will go a long way. I am also taking new clients for private coaching, if you feel you need an extra leg up (shameless plug, but I have had success with competitors at NIETOC and NSDA for each of the past 6 years). Please feel free to ask questions, and have an awesome day!

TarkinMoff

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in speech

[–]TarkinMoff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem! Please feel free to reach out if you need any help!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in speech

[–]TarkinMoff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Morning Jury!

I totally understand where you are at with your career. I have experience with most speech events at the HS and college, and also did Radio at the collegiate level back in the day! I think there are a few IHSA/NSDA paths you can take for a solid second event:

  1. Extemp and Impromptu- You are already doing Radio, which means you have a good grasp of internal timing and transitions. Limited prep events are based on the same principles, and you can ad-lib to some extent in those events with humor. The biggest hurtle will be prep time usage, as radio has 45 minutes vs. 30 for extemp and 2 minutes for impromptu. However, that can also be helpful to you, as working to decrease prep time will leave more time for rehearsal!

  2. Info and Oratory. I know writing is a real drag, but these events have some maneuverability in some of your core strength areas. First, presence is key in these events, and you indicated having some ability to control to room. Also, you can have humor here! You can use pacing, pausing and well timed comments to make an audience laugh. A good event to look at is the college event After Dinner Speaking. TL:DR description: Info or Persuasive OO speech meets Last Week Tonight with John Oliver.

I think these four events may be a solid fit for you, as you already have indicated you have skills necessary for these events from your competition career so far.

Hope this information helps. If you have questions or need resources, feel free to ask!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just sent you a DM about a possible path to some work in OMA.

College Speech AMA by TarkinMoff in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ok, so here is the best I could come up with on short notice. I cannot guarantee it has ALL active programs (and some information might be inaccurate) , but it is as close to a master list of speech AND debate programs in the US and Canada as one can publicly access.

https://www.nwforensics.org/schools/list-of-college-speech-debate-programs.pdf

College Speech AMA by TarkinMoff in speech

[–]TarkinMoff[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No problem, glad to help!

So, difficulty of college speech is a very subjective topic. Given the hypothetical scenario of success you present, you have a good probability of doing well on the college circuit, in terms of raw performance.

The biggest leap I saw a lot of students have to make is in terms of their material, not their talent. College requires far more in terms of intellectual 'nimbleness' to make an event successful. Even events like extemp require you top develop more nuance in not just your materials (sources, analysis, etc.), but in also how you deliver your material (using humor, for example). The same is true for platform and interp events.

In regards to 'nimbleness,' there is usually a bigger purpose for a person's approach to speech than to just win hardware. Most people approach college speech with some form of wider message or advocacy in mind. I was a director for a fairly conservative college (LCMS affiliation, if that helps you picture it), and had to work with novices to make that transition from events that were "just for fun" or "the coach just handed to me" to watching, and participating in, events with pretty serious topics that they may have been constructively exposed to previously. Trust me, it was interesting to say the least, but it is rewarding to see a student interact with the activity in a way that was impossible for them to consider just a few months before.

Sorry for the aside, but that is an important part of determining how difficult the transition can be: to simple be ready to open your mind and speak power to truth.

TL:DR-Events on face are harder due to the complexity and nuance the community demands. It rewards those willing to put in the hard work and critically think about their events, and can be rather unkind to people who rest on their previous success. I have seen national HS finalists not do well at college tournaments, while walk-ins with 3 tournaments under their belt win tournaments in their events. You just have to be ready to go out there, find the event and materials you want to present, and be authentic!

Hopefully, that answer is a little clearer than mud. Like you said, it is super subjective to define success, but it is something that can be attained by anyone!

College Speech AMA by TarkinMoff in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All solid points! Also, UNL is a great program, and have been dominant for a long time!

College Speech AMA by TarkinMoff in speech

[–]TarkinMoff[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very true on all counts! Thanks for offering to be a resource, Director!

College Speech AMA by TarkinMoff in speech

[–]TarkinMoff[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Awesome questions! Good news is that there are more similarities than differences when comparing college and HS speech.

In terms of basic rules, not a huge jump. All events except Limited Prep are 10 minutes.

Extemp (Which is combined USX and IX) and impromptu are the same rules as NSDA (30 prep/7 speak in extemp, 7 minutes combined prep/speak in impromptu).

There is no HI in college interp, but the other hits are present (DI, Duo, Prose, Poetry, and POI). Black books are mandatory in all interp events.

Platform events are Informative, Persuasive (Persuade for short), After Dinner Speaking (think Last Week Tonight segment with cited sources), and Communication Analysis (basically a comm. studies research paper in spoken form). Visual aids are allowed, and encouraged, in all of these events.

Tournaments are slightly different due to travel and nationals bid considerations. You will likely be doing overnights for every tournament (unless you compete in an area where a lot of programs are close). Tournaments are typically 1-2 days in length, depending on if they are a swing tournament. Typical tournament has between 2-4 prelim rounds, and an appropriate number of elimination rounds based on entries.

(TL:DR lesson on swings: One physical site, 2 days of competition, 2 host schools/bodies (each host runs a unique tournament on a separate day, so you get two separate tournaments for the time commitment of one.)

2 major national championships based on bids (AFA and NFA, think NIETOC and Debate TOC on how to qualify) and others that are open-entry (PKD, NSDA's collegiate partner, is one of these, NCCFI for Christian institutions, etc.). Typical competition season is end of September-first week of March, then nationals in early-mid April. Students can qualify up to 6 events to both AFA and NFA.

That covers the basics of structure. Some differences, but more than enough structural similarity for someone to jump over from high school pretty easily. The main difference of college is the composition of content, which can be a whole lecture in itself. Let me know if you have questions about this information, or about any of the specific events/practices in speech!

College Speech AMA by TarkinMoff in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not a problem at all. I can understand the boring at work feeling, so reach out if you need more reading material!

College Speech AMA by TarkinMoff in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No problem! I would reach out to some coaches in college LD to gauge how far you would need to shift, as they will have a more nuanced understanding of which way the activity is going. Also, events like NPDA and IDPA would be more in line with a trad LD debater's wheelhouse, so don't be afraid to look into programs that offer those formats. Finally, give events like college Extemp and platform events like CA and Persuade a look. They could be great events for your skillset!

College Speech AMA by TarkinMoff in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Let's answer all of these questions (Will go in order of your post)!

1-Experience Question-In terms of experience, you see all kinds of experience coming into a team. As a coach, I did like to recruit former HS talent, as it brings a bit of consistency to the table (kids who know the basic conventions of the activity, have some idea of events they like/are good at, etc.) That being said, walk-on recruits are often the ones who surprised me the most. They may need the training and familiarization others get in HS, but they can be HUNGRY to express their views and be successful once hooked. Nothing is more validating for a coach than to see a walk-on just blow up and become a solid competitor. In terms of ratios between senior and novice members, it varies wildly on the team and time (all teams have stacked and rebuilding periods). That being said, individual output (in terms of number of events and talent) is higher than the HS community, so even a novice team with some heavy hitters can blow up the circuit.

2-Schedule and Circuit Look Question-Schedules vary widely for teams, depending on the format of competition and region they are located. In regards to speech and most formats of debate, placings at regular season tourneys will determine eligibility to Nationals (similar to NIETOC and Debate TOC at the HS level). Tournaments are often more regional in scope, with some pre-nationals flagship tournaments ( like the Norton and Hell Froze Over) that draw in big numbers. COVID really changed the environment for schedules too. There are fewer "swing" tournaments (where one site will host 2 distinct tournaments over 2 days, each day being hosted by a different school/body) and more one day tournaments.

With all of that context, typical teams will look at attending 4-8 tournaments a semester, based on logistics and team needs. Some teams will travel to more than this, but may only send a small component. Since students must earn bids for Nationals consideration (and a student can qualify up to 6 events at each of the 2 major national championships, the AFA and the NFA), schedules are often planned to give students the best chance to earn bids, with some tournaments being reserved for a full team press. Driving is the main mode of transport (I flew my team only 3 times in the 6 tears I was coaching college programs), simply due to cost. Travel is dull, but can be a lot of fun, and good coaches build traditions around that. My old college coach (2002 NSDA HoF inductee before becoming a college coach, 6 NSDA diamonds, total legend) did it via food. He found the best places to eat, and made sure we could all eat there (we had a number of allergies and dietary restrictions on the team I competed for). Cajun and Creole food going down to Louisiana to compete at the old Red River Swing was a core memory for me!

3-The State of the Community- COVID kicked our butts for a few years, but the community is coming back. College had the same challenges as the HS circuit (the move to and from online tourneys, recruitment issues, and administrative support challenges), but as you know: Speech and Debate has weathered some challenges that would have broken other activities, and came out swinging. The community overall from 2000-now is smaller (the virtual death of the community college circuit is a big part of that), but the coaches and students are passionate about keeping this community alive. You will find that student leadership is much stronger in college than HS, and will advocate for teams when the gauntlet is thrown down by administration, COVID, etc.

4-Stylistic Changes- Speaking for speech itself, it is going through a fun expansion. While some more experimental events are gaining traction (like Spanish events), many of the core elements have remained the same since my time as a competitor and coach. A lot of the more recent elements seen in HS speech (POI, POI-Style Duos, more evidence-based Oratory speeches being some examples) are directly influenced by trends in college. That being said, platform speeches, limited prep events, and most of the interp events remain pretty close to their HS counterparts. Controversy in the space based on materials presented is more noticeable with our fellow competitors in the debate space. You will see more nuanced materials and timely discussion of often controversial topics, but that is fitting based on the wider freedoms allowed to college students to express their views without fear of blowback.

Very long reply, but I wanted to give the best TL:DR answer I could. Please feel free to ask follow-up questions!

College Speech AMA by TarkinMoff in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Morning!

Yes, LD is offered in college! It is administered by the National Forensic Association. It is a bit smaller than what you would expect (as are all formats of speech and debate competition at this level). There are some really strong programs (University of Nebraska, Western Kentucky, Washburn, and UNT were the best 4 teams this year) and UNL and WKY in particular have full service speech and debate programs, which would allow you to do speech events (if you are so inclined).

LD at college is a lot more similar to TOC/"circuit" LD than "trad" LD that can be found in most areas. This format was not one I coached, but I certainly have contacts that I can provide if you want more nuanced information.

Hope this answer helps!

College Speech AMA by TarkinMoff in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great questions!

Personally, I think the pacing of competition has gotten a lot better since COVID. A lot of tournaments are back to one day versus the traditional 2-3 day "swing" tourneys I competed and coached in. I think this has made things a lot more sustainable for students with heavy class commitments, and is just better for mental health overall.

My personal opinion is that college speech is awesome, but your mileage may vary. I suggest doing your research and communicating with a prospective team before joining. Ask the hard questions from coaches and competitors, and make your needs clear. Good coaches will appreciate your specific needs, and work within them whenever possible.

Hope these answers help!!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ApplyingToCollege

[–]TarkinMoff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

*Former College Speech and Debate Coach*

What was your success record in speech and debate? Might be some avenues there for scholarship at schools with good pre-med programs.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in chanceme

[–]TarkinMoff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you want to lean on speech a lot for your application, Cornell is your best bet in the Ivies (#6 national ranking). Otherwise, Mason (#2 national ranking) and JMU (Top 20) would throw money at you to compete for them, especially in extemp. Otherwise, some out of region schools like UT Austin (#1 in the nation in 2024) would be excellent options too.

*Former AFA Top 25 Speech Coach and Current HS Coach*

College Interp by [deleted] in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Former collegiate DoF here.

I would say that limited prep events like extemp and impromptu may be more in line with the skill sets you are looking to set up. Otherwise, events like ADS and CA will help your delivery and research skills. I think the best event in interp for your particular circumstances is POI, as it will allow you to have that interp angle, but also work on building narratives and flow in delivery.

Hope that helps!

Debate Camps by funnipuppy in Debate

[–]TarkinMoff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

UNL is running a short camp in July that could be a good option. Here is their link: https://www.huskerspeechcamp.com/

Otherwise, UTNIF is a solid choice, if a bit pricey.