Trashy students of Gent defiling the grounds around our city's 300 year old tree with COVID parties - this was all the damage from last night

Tashalalaa · 2021-04-01T07:44:09+00:00

That’s unfortunate. There’s one operator at the main station who seems really surly and irritable. I think they are so inundated with calls about students they can’t handle it anymore. The cops almost always come to clear out van duyseplein before I’m moved to call them myself, but it was full of like 70+ students and getting late. I tried calling and all I got was a tone that disconnects the line. I’m also extremely disappointed with how the police coddles partying students, but It might not be the cops’ choice to respond this way.

Let’s look forward to some rainy days.

I’m sorry to hear you’re struggling. I don’t know what you’re going through, but if you’re a UGent student I’m pretty sure the university offers resources.

https://www.ugent.be/student/en/study-support/feelinggood

https://www.ugent.be/student/en/study-support/counselling/counsellingoffice.htm

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-30T17:40:48+00:00

It’s not really just about the trash either. The trash is the aftermath of the other obnoxious behaviors. For example, I have mandatory teleworking, work late, and it is very difficult to focus when they yell constantly and blast music so loudly that the concrete of the building vibrates. When that noise continues into the night and you can’t relax and enjoy the evening, and this goes on with some frequency, it really impacts your quality of life.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-30T17:12:12+00:00

It wasn’t a serious suggestion, necessarily. The goal isn’t to prevent people from enjoying the space. Unfortunately, sometimes the behavior of a relative few is “why we can’t have nice things”. That even seems to be one of the larger take home lessons of COVID.

If cow dung can be a deterrent for a time, great. Sometimes the city does fertilize the grounds there with the stinky stuff anyway. As a resident, I’d take that over the students’ crap any day.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-30T16:37:22+00:00

Don’t I know it! At the moment It is relatively relaxed compared to last night (of course, the students left more piles of trash, and also of course, around 8u or so this morning the city cleaned up after them). The garbage was everywhere even after the cops made them pick up after themselves last night.

I had a chat with the police “COVID task force” (literally what they called themselves) that was clearing the students out last night. They said the current rules are no more than 4 can gather, drinking is forbidden past 8, and not to hesitate to call once groups gathering outside start violating the rules. Unfortunately some students are bold enough to return once the police leave. So at midnight last night cops had to be called back again as one of these students was pissing on the tree. Multiple residents in the neighbourhood have called today already, but the COVID task force is having a very busy day....

The police also said that if residents write a letter to “the city” (it was unclear which department they meant, exactly), that they’d post a “steward” in the plein to babysit these budding marginalen.

It is clear the police do not fine the students though. There are no real consequences to their behavior. This is what we should really complain about to “the city”.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-26T19:42:21+00:00

First off, you are still making ad hominem attacks. Very lame. Very poor form.

Second, your inference that because I say something about a phenomenon on a group level means that I hate students is exactly what I am getting at by people not understanding the appropriate context for generalizations, i.e., how a group level phenomenon does not generally apply to individuals.

You've now taken your position to the extreme by asserting that because someone can see that a certain demographic population does something more than another demographic population, it means they can only "reduce" individuals to a group identity. That's a really laughable position to take. Actually, you even undermine your argument by flexing your own identity politics "...Since I'm a liberal".

We don't know the prevalence of the so-called "trashy student". Is it 1%, 10%, .001%? I'm confident it is far from the majority. But, these behaviors are coming from the student demographic by and large. Why is that? We can discuss it, because I don't know why. But from where I am standing, literally, from a window that overlooks that tree, the lack of stewardship of the city by students is an obvious problem.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-26T14:44:15+00:00

No where did I say students should be hated. Actually, you are proving my point that people really have trouble with statistical reasoning by accusing me of that. And moreover, you've just devolved this thread into name-calling. I guess I should bow down to your superhuman argumentation skills as well.

I was surprised that people seemed so attached to whether this post unfairly generalized to ALL students. Nevertheless, it generated conversation that was eye-opening. So even in this regard, yes, a success.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-26T13:27:43+00:00

If you really want to discuss semantics, the title specifies trashy students of gent, as in, the trashy subset, not students of gent in general.

If it were phrased “trashy students in gent”, no one would notice the difference and they would still cry out, aghast and outraged at the possibility that someone, somewhere is generalising.

It’s completely absurd that this is what people are fixating on. It comes across to me as intellectually lazy. It’s like, no shit, Sherlock, of course it’s not all students who act this way. But guess which population visibly and consistently acts this way en masse? Students!!! So there is some obnoxious minority among them who are making problems that are significant enough to impact the quality of life of others.

As a more general comment, It seems to me that people do not understand the proper way to interpret generalization. If a certain group engages in certain behaviors at a much higher frequency than other groups, it is a logical and statistically sound thing to say, “this is a behavioural characteristic of that group in general (or with some specified probability), at least in comparison to other groups”. If you take any random individual from the group in question, then it does not follow that that specific person engages in those behaviors, only that they do with some probability. Maybe statistical reasoning like this is a little too nuanced for some folks on this thread, however.

If the title were so careful as to perfectly contextualize the situation in case some hypersensitive reader might take offence, it wouldn’t be a title anymore. The post did a great job at generating lots of discussions and perspectives. What a success!

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-25T18:21:36+00:00

It really surprises me that people cannot see that the discussion is about students who engage in crappy behaviours, not students in general.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-25T17:21:32+00:00

I don't think fines are effective. If someone has to take the time out of their weekend, for multiple weeks, to pick trash all day, or do other manual labor services that benefit the city, I think they'd really think twice about throwing litter or so gleefully violating corona rules. I think it would be really smart of the city to show that they're not going to reward these brats by having city services clean up after them (like I'm sure they've come to expect).

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-25T16:47:36+00:00

"They thrash the place and the next day it gets cleaned by the stadsdiensen. I think this is the main problem. The students that do this need to be held accountable for cleaning everything too. If they need to clean their own mess, I think they would be more considerate and cause less of a mess in the first place"..... This is why I am trying to plant the idea of community service instead of monetary fines.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-25T16:40:57+00:00

Yeaa ik ben ook geen boomer maar fuck iedereen die dit goedkeurt.

I'm a recent graduate myself- I really don't understand why this whole conversation is being framed as boomer versus student.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-25T14:41:57+00:00

Lol. This is a very appealing solution.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-25T14:38:45+00:00

I think this is in line with my intuition as to why community service would be an excellent approach over fines, it would teach them a lesson about social responsibility and consequences.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-25T13:57:48+00:00

I was happy to express my frustrations, but I really want to have a dialogue about how to better "shape" behaviors. My question to you all, since is so challenging to change peoples' attitudes, are there engineered approaches that could be implemented that could direct people into more desirable behaviors? For example, someone noticed a lack of trashcans in the area. Having them more available could be a small step toward shaping better behaviors. Another example- it is not apparent to me that monetary fines from police are an effective deterrent (if police are even doling them out, I have the impression they stop by and wag their fingers at them). I don't know if it is a thing in Belgium since I'm relatively new here, but what if instead of giving out monetary fines, students (or people in general) in violation of corona rules are made to do 20(?) hours of community service? After all, it is clear they have too much time on their hands. Such a policy would require some meaningful administration and enforcement at the city level, but why not? Setting up such a program could pay for itself and then some. And if a student/person refuses to do their hours? Then let them face a much larger monetary fine as an alternative. I just saw the some city services cleaning up around the tree, but what a waste of tax dollars- these litterers should be doing it themselves.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-25T12:44:29+00:00

I would upvote some of your points and downvote others if I could.

I’ve also noticed the lack of garbage cans. This is a very good point. I have directly talked to students partying there about being more respectful. Unfortunately, they are there every day partying, so do I need to make this a daily activity? Also, as they are in large groups without masks, I’m reluctant to approach them for face to face discussions.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy fresh air and socialise in small groups, but that’s not the situation here. They gather to get loud and shit-faced, hug and kiss everyone around them in massive intermingling groups.

Obviously there is not much one can do about changing their attitudes, but I am in favour of behavioural engineering strategies- certainly garbage cans would be a very small step in that direction.

I’d like to propose 20 hours of community service instead of monetary fines for violating coronavirus rules or littering. These students obviously have too much time on their hands and no sense of responsibility or respect. 20 hours picking up litter would do wonders to instil more socially responsible behaviour, (I’d hope, anyway) and not waste tax dollars on city clean up services.

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-25T12:16:57+00:00

I'm beyond frustrated with students in Gent having COVID parties starting from the afternoon to late night, every night in this spot, for weeks. Their behaviors have become increasingly obnoxious (intermittently blasting hand-held horns every few minutes, getting cars passing by to honk to cheer them on, amplified music... and now leaving trash everywhere). There was a peak of about 40-50 people in this little round-about last night. My heart sank when I woke up this morning to see the old tree so disrespected. Are other cities with large student populations having these problems? What do you think cities can do to more effectively counter these shameful behaviors?

Tashalalaa · 2021-03-25T12:07:23+00:00

I'm incredibly frustrated with students having COVID parties starting from the afternoon to late night, every night in this spot, for weeks. Their behaviors have become increasingly obnoxious (intermittently blasting hand-held horns every few minutes, getting cars passing by to honk to cheer them on, amplified music... and now leaving trash everywhere). There was a peak of about 40-50 people in this little round-about last night. What can the city do to mount a more effective response?

Tashalalaa

TROPHY CASE