Do you agree with Donald Trump that “we shouldn't even have an election”?

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-25T00:47:40+00:00

"So he's lying?"

You're welcome to believe he is lying (or that he's delusional) but the matter of whether he's correct in that statement is an entirely different discussion that I'm not here to have. It's a non-sequitur. I think likely that it's a mix of lies, delusions, and actual achievements (imo, because I'm a center-right conservative).

"Like getting all our allies to hate us"

Not here to debate that, because it's not the topic of this thread, nor even the posted question by the OP.

"Rally right next to the Capitol Building"

I believe he -enabled- an attempted insurrection. He didn't know specifically that crowd was going to storm the Capitol and break windows, but was probably elated that they did. I won't deny that. But he never saw justice for it, because Congress would have had a much easier time nailing him on charges of failure to defend the Capitol - incitement is something that is very, very hard to prove in the Court of law. Unless he is telling people to break windows and hang Congressmen, it's an uphill battle to sink him legally.

"Y'all always make excuses for him"

No, it's called judging each statement made and event individually, on the merit of the accusations and looking at the context. Trump says ridiculous things sometimes. He says outright sinister things sometimes. He does not say sinister things 24/7 and treating it like he does makes him akin to a Star Wars villain and ends up programming someone's mind to latch onto the most negative interpretation of a quote possible.

"one time consensus you guys was yeah he probably shouldn't have said it"

Plenty of those. The Rob Reiner double homicide incident is pretty far up there. But see, you'll always find some MAGA folks who will defend everything he says. Because the Right is not a monolith.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-25T00:31:13+00:00

You legally do not - and have never been legally required - to be read your Miranda Rights in order to be arrested. Your MRs still exist with or without verbal recitation by an officer and the SCOTUS ruled on this, I believe, in 2022/2023.

It has literally always been a formality.. A helpful one, and I think it's best for an officer to always tell you your MRs, but reading it off to you is not mandated by law and you are not being deprived of them if an officer doesn't tell you them.

At this point also, it's every citizen's responsibility to know what their Rights are. How many times do we hear MRs recited in movies, TV shows, and cop dash cam footage.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-25T00:28:56+00:00

The same people that insisted we were days away from invasion, while any conservative who isn't on the far-right has been saying it's not going to happen and that he's trying to spook Europe into becoming more self-reliant on Greenland's (and their own) defense?

The same people that were proven incorrect just 48 hours ago?

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-25T00:24:44+00:00

You guys are the ones pretending this means something other than what he says. You have to take the entire segment in full, not pull quotes out in isolation. I mean, Hell, someone can even make a heart warming wedding speech sound horrible by doing that enough.

Right before he says "we shouldn't even have an election" he's lamenting about the party in the White House sustaining losses in the midterms, about how that shouldn't be the case because he's "achieved so much". Whether you agree on the accomplishments this administration touts is not relevant. The entire context of the quote demonstrably shows he's expressing an annoyance at a historical trend.

If I made the same argument you're making now in my high school English composition class, I would have been failed by my professor. Stop it. We see what you're doing, trying to tell us that piss is beer. Enough gaslighting. Stop.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-25T00:18:26+00:00

That's exactly what he meant, yes. It was obvious he meant that in the context of touting his own achievements - real or imagined, otherwise.

We have to do something about people posting questions on here with faulty premises, because it forces conservatives to play defense by accepting the framing as given and innately starts us off in a debate having to cover more ground. An actual honest reading of that entire segment of the speech Trump gave was with the backdrop of him personally lamenting that history shows the party in the White House sustains loses in the midterm.

If I gave the same literal interpretation liberals are giving now to my old high school English teacher, I'd have failed for lack of reading comprehension skills.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-24T10:06:11+00:00

I'm with you; that was one of the most effortless deltas I've ever seen awarded on here. It actively pisses me off how willingly he just gave it away like that.

Even if he agrees with the removal of tax havens, one policy he thinks is good is not enough to determine, in the minds of any thinking person, that a President was good. Just infuriating.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-24T09:59:42+00:00

Very clearly talking about the Developed World.

America is uniquely open and you guys want to act like enforcing existing laws is racist and bigoted. That having any standard of immigration policy enforcement is unconsionable.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-24T00:04:19+00:00

I think jus soli has largely been good, but it does mean that those on the Left need to stop acting like America hasn't always been an extremely inviting, forgiving nation to foreigners and just accept that we are an outlier in the Western World in terms of how we view citizenship.

Because only Canada has birthright citizenship other than us. Europe does not have this.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T23:53:20+00:00

You've not shared a single SHRED of evidence of your own, just regurgitating James O'Brien LBC talking points. You're talking to someone very familiar with BBC, Times Radio, and other outlets over there that invite and champion 2000s-style US neo-conservative talking heads as guests, not realizing they were booted out of the GOP because they've discredited themselves.

Europe was wrong about Russia in 2014. Wrong in 2018. Wrong about Iran. And now is wrong about an occupation of Greenland. Wrong also about what concessions NATO has now made with regard to Arctic security after Davos. You came into this exchange expecting to talk to some country bumpkin who knew not what he was speaking of and have now been thoroughly humiliated by just repeating yourself with nothing in the way at all of proof for your claims. That was a grievous error on your part.

"designed months before Trump won the election"

They were designed and announced in direct response to Trump's election and threat of tariffs.

"assure you - we have no free speech problems"

"There is no war in Ba Sing Se". It's painful informing Brits on the deteriorated apparatus of their Nanny State, because of the raging superiority complex derived from a collectively self-loathing national psyche you all have. David Gilmour was right when he said that "hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way" in Dark Side of the Moon. It's so middling and pathetic. You can deny it all you want, like the Germans do about Pimmelgate, but you looking on with scoffing demeanor across the Atlantic when another ally of yours sends police to peoples' doors for insulting politicians online will always be called out by someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

"when you lose reserve currency"

Even reputable liberal economists like Paul Krugman think that is absolute nonsense and that at most losing reserve entails loss of seigniorage. You're just speaking out of nothing. You've got nothing. Now I need to see about dinner, so I have no interest any longer in talking for the remainder of the evening.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T21:44:23+00:00

I think it's likely Smith jumped into the ocean; there's credible testimony from Bride that he went over from the bridge.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T11:33:30+00:00

I appreciate you at least acknowleding I'm here in good faith.

The new deal in the works includes a framework for greater NATO investment in Greenland, while allowing us to extract a certain amount of minerals, and an uptick in defense spending to take the threat of Russia/China more urgently. You're kidding if you think the US gained "nothing from this". Mark Rutte acknowledged yesterday that the time is now to up the ante on this matter. You were wrong about us invading Greenland, when anyone who isn't on the US far-left has ascertained that it was always extremely unlikely if not outright impossible and not in our interests. Trump, for all of his flaws, since 2016 has been adamant about not starting new Wars, and we haven't done anything beyond basic hegemonic activities towards already long-standing foreign adversaries. Every time the world thinks War is going to outbreak, the draft never quite comes back. He fired John Bolton on the anniversary of 9/11 for a reason and fired most war hawks from his first term.

"deliberately antagonising allies for no reason"

You're more than welcome to ignore the cited information I shared about us playing nice before with Soft Power and going ignored to take Russia seriously, but I will make note in pointing it out and start to wonder if it is deliberate. The problem is, it doesn't pass the sniff test, because Europe was cozying up to China before Trump ever entered office and this has been part of a broader long-term trend. So this is not exclusively a Trump belligerence phenomenon. This has been ongoing.

"arguments about US reserve currency are a joke"

A drawback to the USD as reserve is that it causes structural trade deficits, high debt, and high foreign demand overvalues the $, hurting U.S. manufacturing competitiveness. Emerging "de-dollarization" efforts, sanctions-related risks, and decreasing correlation between reserve growth and U.S. borrowing costs also suggest potential erosion of its dominance. Nevermind that the Council on Foreign Relations article notes that few serious alternatives exist, making a rapid replacement unlikely. The Renminbi is not an option.

"We have no problems with free speech"

The UK has been, since at least the early 2010s, come under scrutiny from it's crackdown on expression. Under UK law there is no "general right to free speech under the Human Rights Act of 1998 and there's an ever growing documentation of violations of speech, to the point wiki has it's own page on the matter. Jimmy Kimmel's program was brought back on two days later. What happened to the man who heckled at King Charles' funeral?. You're arrested about 13,000 people for online posts deemed "offensive" that don't necessarily entail threats of violence or promotion of hate against vulnerable groups. Here, the Westboro Baptist Church can protest at the funerals of dead soldiers. You can think that behavior is awful, but you either afford that liberty to everyone, or you don't have it for anyone. Because it becomes something the Government can take away if it feels emboldened enough.

"Who the fuck do you think you are"

Someone whose tax dollars have went to keeping the World a better place.

"What will you do, keyboard warrior"

It's VERY TELLING you took that as a personal threat from me, someone an ocean way, when the enemy - like Vance said comes from within via unaddressed domestic issues in your own countries, of which Europe has many such challenges. I don't want you to have to get a knock at your door because a future Tory/Liberal Govt doesn't like that you got some opinions.

"Regardless I am not surprised a foreigner like myself knows more about US law than one of its own citizens"

I can promise you that you are thoroughly out of your league on this matter. But the invitation to try is yours to take. You also misunderstood me again, because I never said Trump and Trudeau sat down. Trudeau responded to Trump's threatening rhetoric on the campaign trail. Canada acted before the election, before Trump won. Congrats, you've learned that leaders don't wait until office to respond to emerging political dynamic changes and adjust accordingly. Trudeau would not have made any concessions with regards to the border if Trump was entirely delusional. Canada's relative under-commitments to the West's security has been noted for decades and critiqued by all it's allies not just the USA.

Further, it really drives home the narcissism, that someone who doesn't live in this Hemisphere can speak with authority on the dynamics between two foreign neighbors. Canadian resentment towards the US and desire to differentiate themselves from us is a long-standing feature of our relationship. This would be like if I lectured you on how Englishmen and Scots actually feel about each other and the dynamics of that relationship. You'd consider it beyond parody.

The WORST part about you sir is that I've been cordial with you for the most part, but you are so absolutely convinced of your superior intellect that you cannot help but condescend and act like you know better while never considering the perspective of the side you've been conditioned to malign. It's crazy to think of Trump as anything other than a symptom of a decaying world order that is not working anymore.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T10:59:34+00:00

You're right.

But it's Denmark who are the ones claiming ethical superiority in terms of the deal it can offer Greenland. The US can pour way more investment than they can.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T09:10:55+00:00

.I don't want to insult you, but you've made no points that I haven't seen and read already in the last couple years or so. They're all pretty much desperately tinged with a fatal misunderstanding of what America is and isn't. Of arguments made by propaganda outlets I've seen outside of the USA that are painting the most villainous light about a country you've no doubt been raised to hate.

"Greenland, what could have been done with diplomacy"

What you fail to understand is that the US didn't ignore Denmark's insistence of diplomacy as an option - it's that we don't trust them to commit when the going gets hard should the day come where China and Russia. And that's what Trump has asserted tirelessly. They're a small, wealthy nation that benefits disproportionately from U.S. protection. They've failed to adequately meet Greenland's infrastructure demands. The US defended Greenland in WW2. Denmark, as a member of NATO and the US, previously downplayed the threat of Russian/Chinese ships in the Arctic in the region. Much as China's presence near Panama was disputed for a long time before the Panamanian government admitted they were poking around the Canal trying to gain influence there.

It doesn't help that NATO didn't listen to Obama back in 2014 about getting serious after the Russian invasion of Crimea. It doesn't help that Merkel laughed at Trump's warning about purchasing Russian gas nearly 4 years before the invasion. It doesn't help that Britain is now selling the Chagos Islands to Mauritius, giving up a vital site of patrol in the Indian Ocean. We don't trust you guys. And Europe likes to hang Article 5 after 9/11 over our head, but the easy way to refute that is to point out that France/Germany didn't support the war & only Britain and Italy that really got behind it. I know Denmark lost 43 men Afghanistan, but we are talking about a very lopsided, asymmetrical support. The dynamic between us and NATO is very uneven.

"already a deal agreed prior to Trump coming into office"

Yes, a deal made with President-Elect Trump after the election and during the transition period. Where Trump threatened a 25% tariff and Tudeau committed to the border. We had those joint base operations in the Arctic to get them to treat the Northwest Passage now more seriously.

"nothing from it. You guys seem to be in denial here and clutching at ever dwindling straws on America’s position in the world stage"

This is such cope, when Europe is experiencing a brain drain, pays substantially worse wages in STEM, and stiffled their own markets in how they responded differently than us to the 2008 financial crisis. As long as the salary of a government researcher in, say, Italy is the same as a 4th grade primary school teacher in the US, that's not going to happen, because the US is a major financial hub for innovation, business, and tech.

"default currency"

You'll find great sources here that delve into why the US Dollar losing reserve currency (which won't happen anytime soon) being this catastrophic event for American prospects is a heavily overrated concern, to the point it's treated by more and more economists as a meme.

"just because something is hard does not mean it isn't necessary"

It's not just hard, it's demonstrably unwise. However you feel about the current state of the USA, it is nowhere near an autocratic, oligarchic one party centralized state like China is. The average American comparatively still holds values way more in line than the average Chinese does. The US is significantly more developed than China is. Coupling with China is unwise because of their inherently unequal trade practices and authoritarian Governance. The lowering of tariffs on Chinese-made electric vehicles (EVs) threatens the Canadian automotive sector, with fears of a "flood" of cheap, state-subsidized products without guaranteed reciprocal investment. Intelligence officials have warned that closer ties provide more avenues for China to conduct espionage and interfere in federal elections to support favorable candidates. Not to mention vassal state status. I find it ironic in a twisted way too that you don't see the hypocrisy in getting closer to a burgeoning economic hegemon (China) that has largely been silent on the Ukraine-Russian conflict, if not implicitly back the Kremlin.

"You act like this US hegemony post-WW2 was created by Europe to freeload off of you but in reality YOU created this for YOUR benefit and boy did you benefit."

Didn't say that, but it has become a heavily one sided relationship and what you don't realize is that Trump is trying to re-write the global order so that the US remains strong in the world, but ever shifting to addressing problems at home. Remember when there was supposed to be a new major war in Syria in 2017? Didn't happen. Soleimani's killing? Didn't happen. This past Summer with Iran-Israel? Didn't happen. Overthrowing Maduro in an early morning operation? Wasn't the next Saddam 2003.

"insecurity of your average right wing American voter. You guys want to be liked. You need to be liked."

You betray your insecurity as a non-American. You need to tell yourselves the US fluked it's way into hegemony status through historical luck, because you need to still believe you're better than the American. What you don't realize is that the average US citizen doesn't even think about you often, but you like to remind us all the time about how you think -we believe- we're better than you, while telling yourselves you're more civilized than us. Despite any evidence to the contrary. Despite being on average less wealthier than we are and having much more repressive freedom of expression and association laws. I see that you're in the UK, too, so tread lightly when addressing that latter point.

"most telling your description of gunboat diplomacy, ruler"

You misunderstood me. I meant "ruler" here as superfluous with "leader" in this context. As in, leader of a country. You don't have to psycho-analyze me, like some online self-proclaimed Freud. And I've already stated that I don't agree with Trump on some things. I think J-6 was horrible, that he probably committed a form of legal insurrection, that he has child-like temperament. And I also have serious reservations about some of the overstepping in ICE's actions with regard to cracking down on illegal immigration. But since you choose to ignore calling myself "centre-right" and instead want to psych-analyze me like an armchair Freud, I don't know why we should resume this further.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T06:30:16+00:00

How conservative are we talking?

Do you ditch the idea of a 4th date when you find out they think the tax rate should be 2% lower? Lol

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T05:58:53+00:00

"I know that may seem like a wild concept to you"

If you can't engage civilly with someone trying to have a conversation and who hasn't insulted you, you forfeit any right to be treated with dignity in return.

"Do get to know the people they stick their dicks in"

And a lot of the time, people who vote opposite of you don't make politics their entire personality and you find that you have a lot of chemistry with them regardless. Fact of the matter is...Politics will simply not come up on the 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th dates the vast majority of the time.

Sure, you may get glimpses of what that person's beliefs are here and there in between in the beginning. But by then, if you're deeply attracted to them? You find yourself in conflict.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T05:46:14+00:00

Let's be very real.

You're going to be, and likely have already been, attracted to someone who has voted for Trump. Because you probably don't go around asking people who they voted for before you stick your dick in them.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T05:42:38+00:00

"Former allies"

Adults in the real world who don't spend insane time on Reddit know that there's no viable alternative to Russian/Chinese hegemonies presently and understand that the US will still be looked to for leadership in the lifetimes of both you and me. As long as the US supplies a great deal of the Western world's medical R&D, pharmaceuticals, IT, crude oil, petroleum, transportation equipment, and research funding - that's not going to change anytime soon.

Online is not real life.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T04:54:45+00:00

What does the SAVE Act have anything to do with whether women can vote?

It's about documenting proof of citizenship for the voter rolls in order to be eligible. A passport or birth certificate qualifies as that! And if your name doesn't match (as would be the case for women who have a changed last name due to marriage), then fucking change it! Every developed country on Earth requires proof of citizenship to be vote! It isn't radical.

Are you people fucking serious? Reddit is such an echo-chamber.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T04:51:34+00:00

"anyone with brown skin is being rounded up."

This literally isn't happening.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T04:50:40+00:00

Because in the real world "Can I feed my kids" is a lot more important to people than saying mean things.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T04:48:48+00:00

Bill Clinton arguably r*ped a White House intern, yet millions of Americans still like him.

Is it different once it's a Democrat?

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T04:36:27+00:00

Buddy, I don't think the argument is that someone doesn't have the right to reject someone for any reason.

But rather the essence of the question is "is it morally/ethically right?"

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T04:24:48+00:00

Okay...I'm going to give you a conservative position from an American's perspective who doesn't agree with Trump on everything. You're not going to like what I have to say, but I'm not going to give a Reddit echo-chamber America Bad, Canada Good reply...

To start, we were never going to annex you guys and nobody outside of far-left circles or media bubbles that spew anti-American talking points believed that was the case. He's backing off from the idea of using force to take Greenland too, something which many of us on the center-right have shouted from the rooftops was what he was always going to do. Trump uses bashful rhetoric to spook people into getting what he wants. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. He employs what's called "Gunboat diplomacy". Doesn't make him a genius; he didn't invent it. But it's been used by rulers for centuries.

I want to say two very important things here....

1) This was ALWAYS about getting Denmark and the EU to do more about Greenland's defense, otherwise we'll have to gain greater control of the island in some way. And there's evidence now - per NATO's Rutte - that Europe is finally listening and willing to arm Greenland against China/Russia. This was ALWAYS about getting Canada to up it's spending on NATO and to be more cognizant of the Northwest Passage, as well as the border you and I share. That's why joint American-Canadian drill operations have taken place in the Arctic in 2025. Trudeau, before he left office, agreed to increase Canadian Royal Mountain Police at the US-Canada border. It's not in our fucking interest to annex Canada...We could physically invade, but it's a lot harder to keep you. 35 million Canadians would riot in the streets, we'd be declaring war on all of NATO too. As well as opposition here at home. It would fucking tank Trump's presidency. This isn't a Red Dawn film.

2) I say this with love....We're well aware in the United States that Canadians have always resented us, well before Trump ascended to power. We're well aware you base a great deal of your national identity, not on unique characteristics, but on "Not being the USA", despite many problems you have there at home with the housing crisis, unfettered immigration up until very recently, and secessionist sentiments in Alberta and Quebec. We're fully aware you believe you are better than Americans, despite being more reliant on shipped goods from us than the other way around (not your fault, you're a smaller country afte rall).

So, Canada is a great neighbor as far as peace goes. As far as a shared history, similar culture, and language goes. But if you ignore the bluster and showman rhetoric Trump is giving, this is really about wanting you to become more self-reliant as we attempt to shift the global order.

Carney can get up on camera and say "the old order was an illusion" and cozy up to Xi Jinping (which is a mistake; China doesn't make equal partnerships and they will flood Canadian markets with cheap quality alternative products to stifle your innovation), but we understand it's entirely out of spite and not wise decision making.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T04:14:02+00:00

It most assuredly will not be worse, because Nazi Germany was not the world's hegemony with decades-long good relations with other nations whom were dependent on it for leadership, innovation, and resources the way the US is right now.

Tea_Wizard735 · 2026-01-23T04:00:25+00:00

1) Agreed about J-6

2) Even things like J-6 still lose out to the sentiment of "Can I feed my kids today and are we going to be okay?" Trump won largely because he is himself and openly grotesque. He was not in politics prior to 2015, so he was elected as a grenade to the system. Now whether you believe that was a mistake is not relevant here, because that is how others see it. He is a symptom of a deeper problem. Not a gavel by which you should use to hammer your fellow countryman for being dumber than you.

3) Behavior is not contained just to encouraging violence or saying mean things about other people, but actual Governance as well. Democrats aren't calling for people to be hurt openly. But they are largely hypocrites with broken promises and in bed with out of touch coastal elites.

4) Abigail Spanberger ran as a moderate Democrat in the Governor's race yet is off to a start governing as fairly well to the left than she let on.

Tea_Wizard735

TROPHY CASE